The Red One X vs x1000

[amigakit]

You may have noticed that A-EON Technology Ltd has been buying famous Amiga software applications recently.

These applications are much loved by a lot of Amiga users worldwide.  These are reasons why people choose Amiga as well as the familiarity of the AmigaOS.

The idea is to natively port these Amiga applications from the older Classic to the newer AmigaONE X1000 and successor machines so no emulation is required.  In addition, these applications are being updated to build on their familiar look, feel and way of working but modernise them to make them more functional and feature-rich.

The first application to be ported was PPaint, which in addition to be ported to the X1000, has been updated to version 7.3a.  In addition the improvements have been back ported to the Classic Amiga so the new version 7.3a exists for both the new AmigaONE and Classic Amiga systems.  A-EON does not forget that there are lots of Classic owners out there still.

The next applications to undergo this upgrade will be ImageFX, Aladdin 4D and some other surprises to be announced soon.

It is also an objective to integrate all A-EON owned software so it interacts together more easily.

[danbeaver]

Well I routinely use my X1000 (and A4000T with OS4), and they are pretty much fun to me.

[Duce]

The "fool and his money are soon parted" is an old term stretching back to the 1500's, and I meant no offense by it.  I should have phrased that better and not jumped to the assumption that everyone is familiar with such old sayings, since we're such a worldly bunch on A.org, locationally.  Apologies if any offense was taken, none was intended in the least.

To the fellow that's considering purchasing a rather expensive OS4 machine, there's a lot to absolutely love about them, but as the others have said, it'd be a shame to see you invest such an ungodly sum of money into a PC that doesn't do what you hoped it would.

I'd recommend just getting WinUAE (or Amiga Forever, since the ROM's are there for legacy stuff anyways) and a copy of OS4 FE.  It won't be the ideal experience true hardware would be, but should give you a fair enough peek into things for under 50 bucks total, which sure beats a $3000 investment.  I'd be leery of buying any OS4 machine atm to begin with, with the X5000 coming out in the future.

In the end, if the software you want to run on said OS4 PPC machine hits or otherwise requires the authentic hardware like the old custom Miggy chips, the NG box will no more have said chips in it than a Best Buy special Windows PC would, leaving you in emulation land anyways.

MOS machines are dirt cheap, and tbh - I always found MOS to handle legacy software a wee bit better than my SAM does.

[danbeaver]

I use the term, "Cost benefit ratio" for fiduciary concerns, and I doubt it goes back 500 years.  Each person has their own economic resources and priority on spending for both work-related (tax deductible) and hobby purchases.

Defining someone else by one's own standards and expendable income seems a bit...

[Yasu]

@cpaek72

If you just want to play around with Amiga games and programs from time to time I would recommend either a MIST or the upcoming FPGA Replay. They are both FPGA boards that can emulate an Amiga on a hardware level. The first is OCS/ECS but an AGA core is on the way. FPGA Replay is meant to emulate an A1200 but is not finished yet.

If you want an NG Amiga, then you have three choises, each with it's own advantages and drawbacks: AmigaOS 4, MorphOS and AROS.

AmigaOS 4:
Plus: "Feels" very Amiga. Has new hardware. Cheap OS.
Minus: Driver issues. Hardware cost (except emulated AOS 4 for classic machines under WinUAE).

MorphOS:
Plus: Good support. Cheap PPC Mac hardware in plenty.
Minus: May lack the Amiga feel. No new hardware (support for SAM 460 on the way). OS cost up to 111 Euro.

AROS:
Plus: Gratis. Open source. Runs on cheap X86 hardware. Several good distros to play with.
Minus: Still very beta.

I'm not saying which of these you should buy, just that you should really do your homework first. I started out with a SAM 460 with AmigaOS 4 when it had some serious driver issues which made me sell the machine in rage. Then I played around with AROS for a year before settling for MorphOS. There are other stories where people find their home with AmigaOS 4 or AROS of course.

BUT! From one guy who was a beginner 2.5 years ago to a beginner today I have this advice: don't start with the most expensive combination first. Go for the cheapest alternatives and work your way up until you find the thing that works for you. I myself lost a lot of money not doing that.

[ppcamiga1]

Amiga Games are best on Amiga 500.

If you just want to play Amiga games the best choice is Amiga 500 with gotek fdd emulator.

Gotek is cheap and always works.

FPGA emulators such as FPGA arcade, minimig, mist will never be as good as the original Amiga 500.

FPGA emulators are waste of time and money.

The same is also true with the Amiga 1200.

AGA games were craps.



For productivity software the best choice is of course the PowerPC Amiga.

x86 solutions such as AROS are not compatible with the Amiga.

68k Amigas are too slow.

Especially graphics that 68k amigas have is ridiculously slow.

The PowerPC processors are fully compatible with 68k.

Binary translation used on PowerPC Amiga is very different from the full system emulation as in the uae.

68k and PowerPC code share the same space and data.

For the user, this means that he does not feel any difference between 68k and PowerPC applications.

Plus, the graphics on the PowerPC is faster than the fastest PC with WinUAE.

For the developer, this means that it can use the old 68k code in the new PowerPC software, as easy as PowerPC code.

Most of the productivity software works on the new better Amigas.

Some poorly written applications will not work on the new better Amigas.

In my opinion, PowerPC Amigas deserve more to be called Amiga than AGA crap which Commodore produce in 1992-1994.

I really regret that I did not buy a new better Amiga earlier.

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Haha.  The above post should be taken with a grain of salt.  I think you will find people who disagree with every one of those statements.  :roflmao:

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Haha.  I'm laughing out loud about the above post. Are you trolling? Every single one of those statements is wrong.  Go back and try again, bye!  :roflmao:

[giZmo350]

Every single one of those statements is wrong.

I must respectfully disagree with you on one point Mike... I have 3 Miggies and THE BEST experience I get playing OCS/ECS games is ALWAYS on my A500 using either the real game or creating floppies from an ADF from The Games Archive.  

Without going into the semantics of the great hardware add-ons for the A500 (which are a must - as in my sig), games just work as they were written when using a real A500 (with the proper KS ROM). Of course I would never try to play say, Willie Beamish with it's 10 floppies or so, but playing 1 or 2 disk games is the best. Not to mention the great advantage of co-operative 2 player games linking up 2 A500's.

Don't get me wrong, WHDLoad is awesome on the A1200. But none of the games I like to play regularly, work perfectly in WHDLoad.

As far as the PPC working seamlessly with 68K on real hardware , I have no idea as I don't have such a machine!

And as far as FPGA, again I don't have one, but it would have to emulate the hardware perfectly or you would still have to run some sort of emulator such as WHDLoad I would imagine.

I think the guy's a wingnut based on his statement about AGA though!

Just my opinion of course....
Good times and good stuff though!

[wawrzon]

@Oldsmobile_Mike
the guy is known for trolling like that. if one meant it a an actual advise, he would have to make it sound at least a bit sane. but of course this is not the merit.

[OlafS3]

Amiga Games are best on Amiga 500.

If you just want to play Amiga games the best choice is Amiga 500 with gotek fdd emulator.

Gotek is cheap and always works.

FPGA emulators such as FPGA arcade, minimig, mist will never be as good as the original Amiga 500.

FPGA emulators are waste of time and money.

The same is also true with the Amiga 1200.

AGA games were craps.



For productivity software the best choice is of course the PowerPC Amiga.

x86 solutions such as AROS are not compatible with the Amiga.

68k Amigas are too slow.

Especially graphics that 68k amigas have is ridiculously slow.

The PowerPC processors are fully compatible with 68k.

Binary translation used on PowerPC Amiga is very different from the full system emulation as in the uae.

68k and PowerPC code share the same space and data.

For the user, this means that he does not feel any difference between 68k and PowerPC applications.

Plus, the graphics on the PowerPC is faster than the fastest PC with WinUAE.

For the developer, this means that it can use the old 68k code in the new PowerPC software, as easy as PowerPC code.

Most of the productivity software works on the new better Amigas.

Some poorly written applications will not work on the new better Amigas.

In my opinion, PowerPC Amigas deserve more to be called Amiga than AGA crap which Commodore produce in 1992-1994.

I really regret that I did not buy a new better Amiga earlier.

lots of nonsense in just one post... gratulation

I will only answer to the 68k parts... every old game needs the amiga chipset so it will not work without emulation. By your wonderful PPC solution you have to run UAE on a platform that is slower than the cheaper PC options with no JIT. Does not sound like a good or at least better option.

Aros X86 is running 68k software in emulation, it is not binary but source compatible. In your list you seem to have forgotten that there is Aros 68k that is both and even runs on 68k hardware without needing PPC (in opposite to your favorites).

FPGA hardware is and will not beat standard hardware but it has a real geek factor, something PPC for me (and many others) miss. So I do not see it as waste of time or money. FPGA Arcade and Apollo are my personal favorites and it will be interesting to see what future brings. At the moment I am quiet happy using emulation and outperforming Sam 460 ex.

And my last Amiga I bought was "AGA crap" (A4000 with graphic card, before I owned a A1200 and before that a A500). So the "crap" is part of the history of many people here in opposite to PPC.

And BTW not only most productivity software is 68k but also most compilers. And even if they work somehow on your wonderful PPC hardware they still compile 68k binaries.

[OlafS3]

@cpaek72

If you just want to play around with Amiga games and programs from time to time I would recommend either a MIST or the upcoming FPGA Replay. They are both FPGA boards that can emulate an Amiga on a hardware level. The first is OCS/ECS but an AGA core is on the way. FPGA Replay is meant to emulate an A1200 but is not finished yet.

If you want an NG Amiga, then you have three choises, each with it's own advantages and drawbacks: AmigaOS 4, MorphOS and AROS.

AmigaOS 4:
Plus: "Feels" very Amiga. Has new hardware. Cheap OS.
Minus: Driver issues. Hardware cost (except emulated AOS 4 for classic machines under WinUAE).

MorphOS:
Plus: Good support. Cheap PPC Mac hardware in plenty.
Minus: May lack the Amiga feel. No new hardware (support for SAM 460 on the way). OS cost up to 111 Euro.

AROS:
Plus: Gratis. Open source. Runs on cheap X86 hardware. Several good distros to play with.
Minus: Still very beta.

I'm not saying which of these you should buy, just that you should really do your homework first. I started out with a SAM 460 with AmigaOS 4 when it had some serious driver issues which made me sell the machine in rage. Then I played around with AROS for a year before settling for MorphOS. There are other stories where people find their home with AmigaOS 4 or AROS of course.

BUT! From one guy who was a beginner 2.5 years ago to a beginner today I have this advice: don't start with the most expensive combination first. Go for the cheapest alternatives and work your way up until you find the thing that works for you. I myself lost a lot of money not doing that.

AROS is "still very beta"? Really?

AROS is supporting ARM/X86/X64/PPC and 68k.

I have some knowledge regarding the 68k branch. Where it is "still very beta"?

[danbeaver]

It is sad (IMHO) that some people define their opinion as "Fact" and we see way too much of that in the forums.  In research, that represents an "N of 1" and lacks any relevance.  In the forums it does represent, again IMO, trolling for an argument -- thus Mike is correct.

[wawrzon]

And my last Amiga I bought was "AGA crap" (A4000 with graphic card, before I owned a A1200 and before that a A500). So the "crap" is part of the history of many people here in opposite to PPC.

actually he said the aga games were "crap". whatever the case, in whatever comparison aga games and aga itself as technological solution were behind the comparable pc options at their time, and not as revolutionary as genuine amiga (1000). though it is in no relation to the current situation of os4 in terms of rtg technology or available games.

[OlafS3]

actually he said the aga games were "crap". whatever the case, in whatever comparison aga games and aga itself as technological solution were behind the comparable pc options at their time, and not as revolutionary as genuine amiga (1000). though it is in no relation to the current situation of os4 in terms of rtg technology or available games.

"FPGA emulators are waste of time and money.

The same is also true with the Amiga 1200.

AGA games were craps."

ok he says A1200 was a waste of time and money

the same is true for his PPC. Replacing old technology with another one partly even expensive one makes no sense either.

[takemehomegrandma]

I must respectfully disagree with you on one point Mike... I have 3 Miggies and THE BEST experience I get playing OCS/ECS games is ALWAYS on my A500 using either the real game or creating floppies from an ADF from The Games Archive.

That's simply because the A500 is the real thing!

There is no way around this fact!