Regarding pricing policy of "OS4.1.7"

[wawrzon]

If we consider use only 68k software, after year 2000 the fastest Amiga 68k is uae with jit on pc.

Uae with jit on pc has also  the best price / performance ratio.

Using anything else to run only 68k software is stupid,  and wawa should scrap his slow amiga, and should use uae with jit.

i am using uae as well if need be. everything depends on what im particularly up to. usually real hardware along with an emulation is a good tandem to push things a little further.

as for scrapping my amigas, i dont feel like it, sorry. and i dont think i need to explain myself to anyone as to why. on the contrary, a request to distroy amiga hardware sounds for me rather uncalled for on an amiga forum.

[Niding]

"unfavorable reaction of the public"

Seems like the reaction is all over the scale, from positive to negative.

All depending on what realistic expectations you had. How you read into articles and presentations depends on your mindset when you read/hear it.

But that is hardly a suprise. What looks like "damage control" to some, is "pragmatic move" to others.

And the list is long.

[wawrzon]

"unfavorable reaction of the public"

Seems like the reaction is all over the scale, from positive to negative.

All depending on what realistic expectations you had. How you read into articles and presentations depends on your mindset when you read/hear it.

But that is hardly a suprise. What looks like "damage control" to some, is "pragmatic move" to others.

And the list is long.

im speaking about the initial reactions based on assumptions, that 4.1fe will be a paid _update_.

[chris]

@Chris

You forget that AmigaOS 4.2 has some contractual obligations for X1000 owners on the part of A-eon .

Which I guess is why they aren't calling it 4.2, but that doesn't stop them calling it 4.1.7, 4.1.1 or whatever.

They really shouldn't have promised things for 4.2 when 4.1 had already been out for a number of years, and the things being promised weren't trivial.

[chris]

im speaking about the initial reactions based on assumptions, that 4.1fe will be a paid _update_.

Calling it "OS4.1 Final Edition" makes it look like a paid update.

[wawrzon]

Which I guess is why they aren't calling it 4.2, but that doesn't stop them calling it 4.1.7, 4.1.1 or whatever.

exactly.

They really shouldn't have promised things for 4.2 when 4.1 had already been out for a number of years, and the things being promised weren't trivial.

but the reason to promise these things in first place must have been exactly, that the were not trivial, otherwise they would not have any much result on the audience. the mistake is to treat these as actual technical goals, while it seems that instead they are simply publicity arguments. deployed somewhere of far horizont and moving with it they are even more effective publicity than if they were actually ever achieved, because then you would have to create another decoy.

[billyfish]

This is not even a hypothesis; the cost of compatible HW + MorphOS usually is around 1/10th to 1/30 of of the price for an OS4 system that in best case is only slightly less powerful than the MorphOS one, and in worst case only delivers a fraction of the performance.

OS4 hardware is more expensive yup. It's also brand new as opposed to secondhand,
Ok my X1000 cost me about £2100 and given that it is the most expensive OS4 option I assume that's where you're getting your 30x figure. So are you saying that I could get a MorphOS computer for £70? Given that a license works out to be about £90, I assume that you know someone that would give me a computer to run it on *AND* £20? They're very generous, I'd love to meet them :-)

As for performance, can you show me your comparable benchmarks from an X1000 and your secondhand mac which you based your claims on? I'd be surprised if my PCI-X graphics card is less powerful for instance.

I await your figures with baited breath.

Karlos and Itix are discussing the saturation of the OS4 market above. OS4 has been locked into an impossible HW situation, like... Forever! And even more so the last half decade! The only few people willing to actually pay those insane price tags for those ancient performance machines only to run something like OS4, did so a long time ago already! The OS4 license model depends on a constant stream of new users. But no new users are coming! They are all here already, and if anything, some are actually leaving! So they are breaching their "deal" with the current users that the next paid update would be OS4.2, and decides to charge money once again for OS4.1 through the seventh update.

Oh dear, mr logic has left the building again! :-)

So you're saying that your privy to OS4 sales figures, yup? Hyperion & co have let you into their inner sanctum? I also didn't realise that everytime someone stopped using OS4 that they called you directly. I'll bear it mind if I ever depart the scene, my duty to give you a call and let you know.

Are you sure that this tribute to a famous part of Father Ted somes up your rigourous research techniques?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-1ZOlISF5DnE/UyqnxwedU8I/AAAAAAAAHyY/2zbLayo85Ao/s1600/father+ted+dreams+reality.gif

:-)

[chris]

but the reason to promise these things in first place must have been exactly, that the were not trivial, otherwise they would not have any much result on the audience. the mistake is to treat these as actual technical goals, while it seems that instead they are simply publicity arguments. deployed somewhere of far horizont and moving with it they are even more effective publicity than if they were actually ever achieved, because then you would have to create another decoy.

Even more reason to promise them for OS5.0 to give a lot of breathing room. Nobody cares if OS5.0 comes after OS4.1 or if we go all the way up to OS4.9 first.

[utri007]

Why? Why argue with TMHGM, his purpose was so obvious?

Amiga OS4 has original Amiga OS4 feeling and touch, in good and bad ways, it is all that matter to me.

[wawrzon]

Even more reason to promise them for OS5.0 to give a lot of breathing room. Nobody cares if OS5.0 comes after OS4.1 or if we go all the way up to OS4.9 first.

wanna put up with that:
http://downloadsquad.switched.com/2007/10/07/amiga-os5-to-be-better-than-mac-os-x/
;P?

seriously, given that bad karma, even then it is no go, since its too distant already. you need somethimg that seems within reach and then just leaks through your fingers without you knowing whom to blame if not yourself.

[giZmo350]

wanna put up with that:
http://downloadsquad.switched.com/2007/10/07/amiga-os5-to-be-better-than-mac-os-x/
;P?

seriously, given that bad karma, even then it is no go, since its too distant already. you need somethimg that seems within reach and then just leaks through your fingers without you knowing whom to blame if not yourself.

Man, with all the drive-by posting going on in this thread somebody  needs to invent a digital version of stop-sticks!

Is there any end to  the semantic diatribe by the usual flame baiting suspects? Huffington  Tech!? HA! Is Ariana Huffpoof where you learn your screed of  deceit? No wonder I couldn't make heads or tails of the harangue in this thread!  How's that for mincing words! :lol: BTW, this is not a challenge... even I know that a liberal always has the last word. Hmmm, I think there will be some irony to follow.

[amigadave]

@amigadave

So... Is the AmigaOS 4 market saturated now and Hyperion moved to charge from updates?

Like Karlos wrote:



Karlos being an OS4 developer is giving strong hint...

I have no idea what the market sales are like for AmigaOS4.x or MorphOS3.7.

If someone had not noticed the numbering system on the invoices sent out for MorphOS, we probably would not have any idea about how many MorphOS licenses had been sold (not users, just individual computer keys for MorphOS).

If Hyperion wanted to make the most money from selling AmigaOS4.x, they could have just left the price where it was, so any new users who wanted to try out AmigaOS4.x for Classic hardware via UAE emulation would have had to pay the higher price.

Perhaps (just a guess), this paid stand alone version of AmigaOS4.1FE was created to cater to users wanting to try AmigaOS4.x via UAE emulation, and the low price of only 30 Euros was set to encourage higher sales to these new users trying it out via UAE.

None of that matters to me.  The developers of AmigaOS4.x are trying to do things that weren't even being discussed on other NG Amiga platforms until recently, AFAIR.  Adding some of the features that they want to add is a hugely difficult and complicated project (so much so that many other people have said it can't be done, so they won't even try).  Since I decided to invest in an AmigaOS4.x compatible system, I am willing to help fund further progress on the development of AmigaOS4.x.  Simple as that.

All the rest is just noise to me, and there appear to be many AmigaOS4.x users who feel the same.  What is unfortunate, is that too many AmigaOS4.x users take the bait when users who do not support AmigaOS4.x developers write negative comments about any part of the AmigaOS4.x world.  I understand their frustration when they read repeated attacks on their choices, or when they see inaccurate information distributed, which usually ends up in long drawn out endless unproductive debates (like this one).

The relevant facts of this particular argument are very few and have already been expressed dozens of times in this thread alone, but yet the endless debate continues with opposing opinions continuing to prove some kind of point or other and generally discredit anyone who opposes their opinions.  It is all so childish and yet I know most members here are over 30, if not over 50 years of age, like me.

I know that more moderating needs to be done in this thread, as some nasty stuff keeps creeping into comments, but I am too exhausted to even think about it right now. Maybe tomorrow I will try to sort some of it out and ask other moderators to act on the worst of it.

Why are so many of you still posting jabs at each other in this thread?

What difference does it make if one group needs money to pay full time developers, while another group gets the same, more, or less work accomplished with an all volunteer work force?  

It doesn't make one right and the other wrong, it really doesn't!

Edit:  I used to wonder why anyone would want to use any NG Amiga system other than MorphOS, but now I understand that they are three completely different things that happen to share a common history, or origination point that is the Commodore Amiga.  As more time goes by, all NG Amiga systems grow further apart, even when they copy small parts or features from one another (such as the few cooperating parts between AROS and MorphOS).  I enjoy ALL the different choices that are related to my original interest and love of my first Amiga A1000.

[Minuous]

wanna put up with that:
http://downloadsquad.switched.com/2007/10/07/amiga-os5-to-be-better-than-mac-os-x/
;P?

Ha, AmigaOS has always been far better than MacOS.

[gertsy]

I think the complaint is more about having bought 4.1 and never using it, rather than paying for an update.  But secondly there is also a fine line between supporting a purchasing customer base and gouging them. Generally purchase of a version gives you a level of support lifecycle that covers intra dot releases. But truly the product lifecycle seems to get shorter and shorter these days.
 Throw away consuming ideology. Off topic but there would be more jobs and better sustainably if we fixed things. Ranting again.

[danwood]

I think the complaint is more about having bought 4.1 and never using it, rather than paying for an update.

I must admit that I do fall into this category now, I did buy OS4.1 in 2008 and 4.0 before that, but I got a fair few years of use out of them and don't begrudge paying the price.  The only reason I stopped using OS4 was down to hardware failure, not a fault of the OS itself.

I still keep an eye on what happens with OS4 though and there are some interesting developments, I will likely buy a copy of FE Classic to try on UAE at least (or if I can find the time and motivation to try and get my A1XE running again).

[danwood]

Well, there are different approaches to how things are "called out".

Dan Wood and Epsilon covers all things Amiga, and Dan has said on several occations that he thinks MorphOS is better atm than AOS. Tbh, from what Ive seen I find it hard to argue with him on that point.
But he does so in a coherent, collected, systematic and sometimes even funny manner. Not coming off like a frothing ranter.

I dont see any reason to belittle other peoples choice of platform, nor the developers for them..

Well said Niding, if anything it's a miracle that the platforms are still here and being developed 20 years after Commodore's demise.  

I find them all interesting, and the Classic edition of 4.1 FE will give those who are curious an easy way to try it out at last for a cheap price.  Icaros 2.0 looks very impressive, I'll be trying that out soon, MorphOS continues to develop at an impressive pace and there's still some really cool hardware being made/in the pipeline for classics - it's a really good and exciting time to be an "Amigan"!