NetSurf 3.2 68k released

[chris]

sad news that nova is leaving, but cant blame him. id probably be able to compile netsurf, with chris help but at some point ive lost temper. im not very patient person. and netsurf build system is too complicated. on aros you simple do configure and make

It is just "make" with a few parameters, the problem is you have to build quite a few things in the right order and cross-compiling complicates matters.

There are pre-built toolchains for x64 Debian here, which might simplify it a bit: http://ci.netsurf-browser.org/builds/toolchains/ (m68k-unknown-amigaos-18 is the latest one at the moment)

With that in situ the libs should build with "sudo make HOST=m68k-unknown-amigaos install" and NetSurf with "make TARGET=amigaos3"

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Regarding topic... perhaps you could offer a error log?

I would be glad to, if you could offer some advice how to do that?

Like I said, I install the program in Netsurf: directory (removing any previous files from the other versions I've tried), double-click either of the icons, it says "Attempting to load program Netsurf" in the title bar, then the machine completely locks up.  Mouse pointer doesn't move and hard drive activity light stays solid lit.  Nothing I can do beyond that point other than flip the power.

Only version I was able to get working was one of the old 2.7 builds.  It loaded Google homepage but was so slow as to be unusuable, then guru'd when I tried to load Amiga.org.

Sorry that feedback isn't terribly helpful.  You can see my A2000 system specs in my sig, so while I'm not trying to run it on "the latest & greatest" hardware, my system isn't exactly a slouch, either.  Just not sure where to go from here.  It may very well be something in the "Options" file, but since I don't understand what any of those options do, I'm kind of shooting blind! :confused:

[OlafS3]

I would be glad to, if you could offer some advice how to do that?

Like I said, I install the program in Netsurf: directory (removing any previous files from the other versions I've tried), double-click either of the icons, it says "Attempting to load program Netsurf" in the title bar, then the machine completely locks up.  Mouse pointer doesn't move and hard drive activity light stays solid lit.  Nothing I can do beyond that point other than flip the power.

Only version I was able to get working was one of the old 2.7 builds.  It loaded Google homepage but was so slow as to be unusuable, then guru'd when I tried to load Amiga.org.

Sorry that feedback isn't terribly helpful.  You can see my A2000 system specs in my sig, so while I'm not trying to run it on "the latest & greatest" hardware, my system isn't exactly a slouch, either.  Just not sure where to go from here.  It may very well be something in the "Options" file, but since I don't understand what any of those options do, I'm kind of shooting blind! :confused:

do you have my last Aros Vision somewhere? The version there works (at least in Aros Vision). You find it in Internet/Netsurf

I am not sure if Netsurf works without RTG except Netsurf AGA

just found it... it seems that RTG is requirement (except Netsurf AGA)

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

do you have my last Aros Vision somewhere? The version there works (at least in Aros Vision). You find it in Internet/Netsurf

I am not sure if Netsurf works without RTG except Netsurf AGA

just found it... it seems that RTG is requirement (except Netsurf AGA)

Hi @olafS3,

I'm not familiar with AROS Vision, but after some googling I downloaded the version "direct download (Aros Vision RTG)" from http://www.aros-platform.de/.

I do have RTG, am running the latest version of P96 from here: http://lilliput.amiga-projects.net/Picasso96.htm  on a GVP Spectrum graphics card.  I run my Workbench in 800x600x16-bit color, I also tried switching to 1024x768 but that made no difference (NetSurf crashed the same way).

I extracted the folder "Internet\NetSurf-m68k" from your archive (I see there was three different versions: "NetSurf", "NetSurf8Bit", and "NetSurf-m68k"... I assume I extracted the correct one?) and copied it onto my Amiga into the NetSurf: folder.

Double-clicked on "NetSurf" (not "NetSurfAGA" and not "NetSurf-nottf"), and the computer crashed in exactly the same way.

Obviously I don't expect the AGA version to work...  what is the "nottf" version?  I see this one a lot, too.  "nottf" I assume stands for "No TrueType Fonts"?  What does that mean?  Aside from having something to do with the TrueType fonts in the \Fonts directory, I assume?

I also went into the Resources\Options file and tried poking around in there for a bit.  This is where the lack of documentation starts to become frustrating.  A few examples:

memory_cache_size:2097152
disc_cache_size:1073741825

What is that, bytes?  Kbytes?  The disk cache size defaults to 1,073,741,825 bytes?  The memory cache defaults to 2,097,152 bytes?  My entire Workbench partition is only 500MB, could it be that the program is crashing on startup because it's trying to allocate a larger disk cache than the entire partition?  I've tried adjusting these numbers to more reasonable values manually, with no luck.

window_width:800
window_height:600
window_depth:32

Guessing at these options, too.  Could it be that it's crashing because it's trying to open a window at the full size of my Workbench screen?  And what is window_depth?  My Workbench runs in 800x600x16-bit screenmode.  I've tried changing these numbers to more reasonable values, such as a smaller window of 600x400, and changing "window_depth" to 16, also with no luck.

And those are just the options I'm guessing at.  The other options are even more cryptic and baffling to me!  "min_reflow_period:"?  "max_fetchers:20"?  "core_select_menu:1"?  Perhaps if these options were explained in layman's terms, one could figure out exactly what they're supposed to do and if they could be the reason why it's crashing.  

Long story short, I feel like this program is too complicated for a layman to understand.  *If* these options are the reason why it's crashing, then perhaps a GUI-based preferences program to help a user set them, prior to running the program, might be in order?    About the only thing I've noticed is depending on how I set them, can make the difference between whether or not I can still move the mouse pointer after the system's locked up.  

Of course that's all just hypothetical.  It could be crashing because I'm running Birdie and VisualPrefs to spruce up my Workbench a bit.  Or maybe it's crashing because I'm running THoR's MMU libraries.  Or any of a dozen different reasons.  No idea.  The system is pretty stable otherwise, just really doesn't seem to like NetSurf for whatever reason.  

[OlafS3]

Hi @olafS3,

I'm not familiar with AROS Vision, but after some googling I downloaded the version "direct download (Aros Vision RTG)" from http://www.aros-platform.de/.

I do have RTG, am running the latest version of P96 from here: http://lilliput.amiga-projects.net/Picasso96.htm  on a GVP Spectrum graphics card.  I run my Workbench in 800x600x16-bit color, I also tried switching to 1024x768 but that made no difference (NetSurf crashed the same way).

I extracted the folder "Internet\NetSurf-m68k" from your archive (I see there was three different versions: "NetSurf", "NetSurf8Bit", and "NetSurf-m68k"... I assume I extracted the correct one?) and copied it onto my Amiga into the NetSurf: folder.

Double-clicked on "NetSurf" (not "NetSurfAGA" and not "NetSurf-nottf"), and the computer crashed in exactly the same way.

Obviously I don't expect the AGA version to work...  what is the "nottf" version?  I see this one a lot, too.  "nottf" I assume stands for "No TrueType Fonts"?  What does that mean?  Aside from having something to do with the TrueType fonts in the \Fonts directory, I assume?

I also went into the Resources\Options file and tried poking around in there for a bit.  This is where the lack of documentation starts to become frustrating.  A few examples:

What is that, bytes?  Kbytes?  The disk cache size defaults to 1,073,741,825 bytes?  The memory cache defaults to 2,097,152 bytes?  My entire Workbench partition is only 500MB, could it be that the program is crashing on startup because it's trying to allocate a larger disk cache than the entire partition?  I've tried adjusting these numbers to more reasonable values manually, with no luck.

Guessing at these options, too.  Could it be that it's crashing because it's trying to open a window at the full size of my Workbench screen?  And what is window_depth?  My Workbench runs in 800x600x16-bit screenmode.  I've tried changing these numbers to more reasonable values, such as a smaller window of 600x400, and changing "window_depth" to 16, also with no luck.

And those are just the options I'm guessing at.  The other options are even more cryptic and baffling to me!  "min_reflow_period:"?  "max_fetchers:20"?  "core_select_menu:1"?  Perhaps if these options were explained in layman's terms, one could figure out exactly what they're supposed to do and if they could be the reason why it's crashing.  

Long story short, I feel like this program is too complicated for a layman to understand.  *If* these options are the reason why it's crashing, then perhaps a GUI-based preferences program to help a user set them, prior to running the program, might be in order?    About the only thing I've noticed is depending on how I set them, can make the difference between whether or not I can still move the mouse pointer after the system's locked up.  

Of course that's all just hypothetical.  It could be crashing because I'm running Birdie and VisualPrefs to spruce up my Workbench a bit.  Or maybe it's crashing because I'm running THoR's MMU libraries.  Or any of a dozen different reasons.  No idea.  The system is pretty stable otherwise, just really doesn't seem to like NetSurf for whatever reason.  

the newest version is in "Netsurf" (the other two are older versions including the AGA version). I have looked in the documentation and at least for the 2.9 series RTG was a requirement so I do not believe that it works without it. "AGA" needs AGA obviously so without either AGA or RTG it will not work I think.

[chris]

What is that, bytes?  Kbytes?

Bytes.  If you'd read the links I posted earlier you'd know that.

Long story short, I feel like this program is too complicated for a layman to understand.  *If* these options are the reason why it's crashing, then perhaps a GUI-based preferences program to help a user set them, prior to running the program, might be in order?  

This is the problem with using a frontend designed for non-GUI and debugging.  All the other frontends have proper prefs GUIs (including mine for OS4, IIRC the prefs window doesn't open on the OS3 build, but as I said before nobody is helping with that so it's unlikely to be fixed anytime soon)

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

the newest version is in "Netsurf" (the other two are older versions including the AGA version). I have looked in the documentation and at least for the 2.9 series RTG was a requirement so I do not believe that it works without it. "AGA" needs AGA obviously so without either AGA or RTG it will not work I think.

I do have RTG...  Does it require something specific?  A certain version of rtg.library, perhaps?  Something from CyberGraphX?  Like I said before, I'm running absolutely the brand-newest version of P96 available, AFAIK.  Oh well, I'm about to give up, LOL.  

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Bytes.  If you'd read the links I posted earlier you'd know that.

Sorry boss, those links were way too technical for reading at 3am.  :laughing:

So, to spell it out for a dumb, idiot layman:  The default disk cache is set to 1073741825 bytes.  Google calculator tells me that rounds down to 1.07 gigabytes.  I've installed NetSurf in SYS:Internet/NetSurf directory.  My entire SYS: partition (a.k.a. Workbench partition) is only 500 megabytes.  So, could one problem potentially be that NetSurf is crashing because it is trying to allocate a disk cache larger than my entire partition size?

And that's just one of the options, LOL!  Nevermind, I give up, haha.

[zipper]

It works fine on Amikit install.

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Well h-e-double-hockeysticks.  I managed to get it running again.  Since it demonstrated a repeated pattern of crashing every time it accessed my hard disk (CF card), I tried dragging the entire Netsurf directory to RAM:, assigning it there, and running it from there.  Just to see what would happen.

I also ramped way down the crazy numbers for those cache values, window size to 600x400, and depth to 16.

Aside from Google thinking I'm in Poland, and it running completely out of memory when I tried to load amiga.org, it did work.  :lol:

Some pics attached.

BTW, I watched it count down to zero, and it did crash again shortly after that "almost out of memory" error.  I guess 72MB is not enough when running the application from the ram disk.  This proves my theory though that it should run on actual classic hardware, but guess I'd probably need at least 128MB and an '060.  

Edit:  I wonder if it would be possible to run the application from RAM:, but assign the cache location to a hard disk somewhere?

[chris]

Edit:  I wonder if it would be possible to run the application from RAM:, but assign the cache location to a hard disk somewhere?

Probably not with the Framebuffer version, but you can set the disk cache size to 0 to disable it.

[apj]

New version 3.4 Dev is on aminet.

[NovaCoder]

New version 3.4 Dev is on aminet.

Arti,

See if you can get anywhere with my updated AGA SDL lib over on EAB.

Let me know how you go...

[matthey]

Let me know how you go...

Hey NovaCoder, I thought you were leaving the Amiga. I expect this is because you need more time or money. Since you are still trying to help, it's less likely that time is the issue, at least at the moment. If you need more time then go do what you need to do and return. Money problems are easier to solve and selling your Amiga equipment is not a good option solely for this reason. You have given a lot to the Amiga community over the years so let us know if you have a money problem. I'm not trying to invade your privacy or anything but we can't help what we don't know. In any case, good luck on whatever you need to do.

[NovaCoder]

Hi buddy,

Well I could obviously do with the money from selling my gear but that's not the main motivation.   I just need to move on to other things, find some new hobbies and interests.

I'll probably keep tweaking my SDL library but the new build of ScummVM that I'm working on will be my last big time consuming game port.

Thanks for all your help on DosBox...we got close!

[apj]

Hi Nova,

I have replied next day I got your message.
Have you seen it?