Professionally published homebrew games.

[Manu]

Terminills can have a sig that is Racist, sexist and promote illegal drug use but that's okay on Amiga org (Regardless of what the forum rules say). No offence Terminals, as I'm not Asian or a hooker.  Nor a xtal meth user.
But promote something that might dilute profit of an untouchable and whammy, you're outa' here!  

LOL ! Are you serious?

[gertsy]

LOL ! Are you serious?

No I'm just making it all up.

Forum Rules:

No pornographic, sexually offensive, sexually explicit, or objectifying material.
Simple rule. Moderator's judgment applies here. We'd like for our readers to be able to read the forums at work and share with friends without fear of retribution

No posting about illegal activities
If you get drunk, that's fine. If you use drugs, that's fine. The moderators of this site aren't here to be your mother. We will not however tolerate excessive posting promoting drug use or other illegal activities. It's not funny, it's annoying, and it's unacceptable. Moderators are free to use their discretion up to and including banning the account of the person responsible.

But this is just a distraction from my question: What happened to Cammy's original post.  Did she change it herself?

?

[Manu]

Big deal, ever heard of humour ?

[OlafS3]

No I'm just making it all up.

Forum Rules:

No pornographic, sexually offensive, sexually explicit, or objectifying material.
Simple rule. Moderator's judgment applies here. We'd like for our readers to be able to read the forums at work and share with friends without fear of retribution

No posting about illegal activities
If you get drunk, that's fine. If you use drugs, that's fine. The moderators of this site aren't here to be your mother. We will not however tolerate excessive posting promoting drug use or other illegal activities. It's not funny, it's annoying, and it's unacceptable. Moderators are free to use their discretion up to and including banning the account of the person responsible.

But this is just a distraction from my question: What happened to Cammy's original post.  Did she change it herself?

?

"Last edited by Cammy; Yesterday at 01:36 PM.."

I would say yes. Otherwise there would be another name I think

She was obviously upset because Amigakit used the thread promoting their App Store including big pictures

Obviously after posting 7 and answer from amigakit in 8

[Everblue]

I've been around for long enough to know that a discussion with Cammy always ends up with tantrums and slamming of doors. Dreams alone go nowhere, you need cash and Amigakit brings that. Which is why Amigakit gets things done whilst other people have just... dreams.

[commodorejohn]

Except that Cammy made it about "profiteering" and "filling pockets." I'm not saying you're wrong, however, as I think what you say is true too, but... by calling them out and then "storming out of the room" didn't Cammy achieve the exactly that? Literally hand the hijack over to them? Here we are talking about Amigakit instead of Cammy's original intent. A little counter-productive, me thinks... probably would have been better just to ignore them and let the thread continue as it would have.

I'll let Cammy answer that; my only position here is that, from where I stand, Amigakit's behavior was rude and spotlight-hogging.

[Terminills]

Terminills can have a sig that is Racist, sexist and promote illegal drug use but that's okay on Amiga org (Regardless of what the forum rules say). No offence Terminals, as I'm not Asian or a hooker.  Nor a xtal meth user.
But promote something that might dilute profit of an untouchable and whammy, you're outa' here!  

Am I missing something?  What happened to Cammy's the original post?  Did she change it, or was she asked to change it?

It's actually a quote from this very forum. ��  haywiredpc is the original poster of the comment iirc.

[Duce]

What exactly is offensive about Terminills avatar?  People really need to order Valium in bulk if this is what upsets you, lol.

Or was he the fellow that had the Choking Victim album cover as his avatar previously?  I see nothing wrong with his current avatar, and I saw no issues with his last one.

It was the cover art of an album you can buy at Walmart - Choking Victim - No Gods, No Managers.

[Niding]

Out of curiosity, have Cammy reposted her original post elsewhere?

I checked EAB, but nothing there at girst glance.

[takemehomegrandma]

Much as I love Cammy for her Don-Quixote-like quest to help Amiga, it's self-interested people that made the Amiga what it was.

Maybe it's just me, but from various interviews of Amiga people from back in the Commodore days as well as the "Deathbed Vigil" video, I rather get the picture of idealism; some very dedicated people working day and night (some times literally), sleeping under their desk in their office, working *way* beyond their *paid* office hours, just to create and develop the Amiga technology and making it what it became, *despite* those corporate guys in the management that only had money on their mind.

And the picture I get in my head when thinking about Amiga Inc (Fleecy and McEwen), Hyperion (Ben Hermans) and Eyetech (Alan Redhouse) is "self-interested" people *destroying* everything what Amiga once was, in their "self-interested" quest for milking the last drops out of the Amiga(TM) cow. But again, maybe that's just me?

IMHO *it wasn't* Carl Sassenrath, Dave Haynie, etc (that is: the first group I mentioned above) who killed the Commodore Amiga, it was the "money-guys". And also IMHO, the responsibility for the wrecking of whatever survived from Commodore falls heavy on the second group (Fleecy, McEwen, Ben Hermans, Alan Redhouse, etc, etc). And in my books, also the "second generation" of Amigaone (the "X1000") falls under the "wreck" label, and few blows to whatever future "Amiga(TM)" could have had, has been as devastating as the "X1000".

Also, I have very difficult to understand this "but they are doing the Amiga(TM) such a favor" attitude that some people have towards those "second group" of people. What favors really? Where have they taken the Amiga(TM) exactly, if not down in the ditch? And despite what many people seems to believe, they haven't done it out of charity. The dollar sign was the driving force, the "Amiga" was merely a means to an end. The "X1000" was no charity project either.

And speaking of that last one, and the one behind it (Matthew Leaman); it's rather interesting to see how he gradually has been involving in and gaining control over some key OS4 parts (drivers) in the absence of the unpaid Hyperion OS4 developers, he has gained control over the HW part ("A-eon"), he has control over the sales and distribution (Amigakit), recently he gained control over a major community site (Amiga.org, and control over the information/community sites has been essential in the past in selling OS4), and with his "app store" he is trying to get a cut on all the SW sales as well (not that there are any to mention, but anyway). Matthew Leaman/"AeonKit" is *becoming* Amiga(TM), a monopoly "from farm to the fork". Minus the (TM) part, but maybe that's just a question of time?

So I definitely understands Cammy's POV.

But at least there are alternatives. These days, the (TM) option isn't even the best option! If what you want is the blended "68k"/PPC option then MorphOS on Mac is a much better option than OS4/X1000/SAM with faster, cheaper HW that comes in all kinds of flavors from tiny footprint Mac Mini's to laptops, via full-blown desktop systems. And you don't even have to stick to PPC; if you are prepared to drop the special kind of Amiga compatibility that only OS4/MorphOS can bring to the "NG" world, then various of AROS flavors are an option as well. So you don't *have to* spend $3,000+ on special PPC locked-in stuff, just because that's what AeonKit has chosen to offer!

Jay Miner did want to create one of the best personal computers of it's time, but he didn't do it for the "community." He did it because -->he<-- wanted to do it and because he would earn money by doing so.

There are many driving forces behind entrepreneurs and engineers going outside the box. Getting rich could be one, but it's probably less common than you believe, many studies on this subject suggest that this usually comes quite far down the list of motivating factors.

Do you have some kind of reference supporting your statement that Jay Miner's only (or at least primary) interest in his work on the Amiga was to get rich?

---

NOTE: I'm *not* against making profits, I'm not even against *profiteering*. I'm all for free market economy, all the way. I'm a capitalist at heart, not a communist. But try to look at things for what they are, don't try to twist things to yourself or others. Don't tell yourself that people are "being kind", "doing us a favor" or charity etc when they are in fact profiteering. Those things don't match. Besides, free market economy requires many options as well as transparency to work. Monopoly on all parts of the value-chain (as well as control over the information channels) looks more like communism than free market economy, *especially* when involving stupid decisions! :p

[commodorejohn]

Out of curiosity, have Cammy reposted her original post elsewhere?

I checked EAB, but nothing there at girst glance.

Over on Amibay.

[psxphill]

Maybe it's just me, but from various interviews of Amiga people from back in the Commodore days as well as the "Deathbed Vigil" video, I rather get the picture of idealism; some very dedicated people working day and night (some times literally), sleeping under their desk in their office, working *way* beyond their *paid* office hours, just to create and develop the Amiga technology and making it what it became, *despite* those corporate guys in the management that only had money on their mind.

I don't get that impression at all. They were usually working day and night to get something working at all in some form, so that it could be used in a smoke and mirrors demonstration. They did the best that they could with the time and money they could get away with. Most computers were designed in a similar way.

The major problem that the Amiga came up against was the idealism of AAA. There were highly paid people working on those that never shipped a product, it is the reason why there was such a long time between the A500 launch and the A1200 launch. I'm not saying management were perfect, but it's difficult to manage cutting edge projects. Bad management and bad engineers is a lethal combination. A500 and A1200 were definitely not idealistic, they succeeded because of the compromises.

[takemehomegrandma]

They were usually working day and night to get something working at all in some form, so that it could be used in a smoke and mirrors demonstration.

I don't really see how that contradicts what I said above?

"EDanaII" claimed above that those who made Amiga great, did it out of self-interested monetary interest, and that this would also have been Jay Miner's reason to create Amiga in the first place. "it's self-interested people that made the Amiga what it was", "He did it because ... he would earn money by doing so". There is one thing to work for your daily bread, and who hasn't worked overtime a couple of times, especially towards a deadline, and who hasn't put up a smoke and mirrors demonstration at some point? It doesn't matter. The impression *I* have got from various interviews over the years, as well as the "Deathbed Vigil" video, rather suggest some passion for the work being done, for the technology they created, rather than promises of potential richness's. In other words, my view is that "the people who made Amiga great" worked with a monthly salary, they had their "daily bread" in exchange for their work, but the reason to why they worked so hard as they did wasn't for *profiteering* or potential richness's. The profiteering on Amiga(TM) by various involved individuals came *after* Commodore went bankrupt, and post Commodore I don't really see how *anyone* involved has helped "making the Amiga what it was" as EDanaII put it.

[Rebel-CD32]

Perhaps a little history of the conflict between Cammy and Amigakit may help explain why she got so emotional and left the forum.

Cammy has always found and supported smaller hardware inventors, manufacturers and sellers, as well as pointing out cheaper solutions direct from China being sold at a fraction of the cost of identical items being sold by Amigakit. She likes to help the little guy, both developers and consumers. This has annoyed Amigakit, who doesn't deal well with competition, especially when it shows how much overhead he has on some items.

Years pass and Cammy felt like she was bullied out of the community. She developed depression and stopped being productive. People eventually started to miss her and asked about her. I explained that she was in a very bad way and really needs some support, and for some reason this thread annoyed Amigakit and it was closed before Cammy could come back and reply herself. Others, who had expected such censorship already started another thread where they welcomed her back and convinced her to start posting again.

She has been wanting to talk about publishing homebrew Amiga games in boxes for collectors for a while, and so she spent a lot of time writing up the thread and finding heaps of example photos of boxed homebrew games. It wasn't about an app store at all, even though that is another idea Cammy had been discussing for years without much support.

So you can see why Amigakit barging in here and stomping on her dreams so soon after censoring a thread made by well-meaning community members to support her might upset her and drive her off.

[OlafS3]

Perhaps a little history of the conflict between Cammy and Amigakit may help explain why she got so emotional and left the forum.

Cammy has always found and supported smaller hardware inventors, manufacturers and sellers, as well as pointing out cheaper solutions direct from China being sold at a fraction of the cost of identical items being sold by Amigakit. She likes to help the little guy, both developers and consumers. This has annoyed Amigakit, who doesn't deal well with competition, especially when it shows how much overhead he has on some items.

Years pass and Cammy felt like she was bullied out of the community. She developed depression and stopped being productive. People eventually started to miss her and asked about her. I explained that she was in a very bad way and really needs some support, and for some reason this thread annoyed Amigakit and it was closed before Cammy could come back and reply herself. Others, who had expected such censorship already started another thread where they welcomed her back and convinced her to start posting again.

She has been wanting to talk about publishing homebrew Amiga games in boxes for collectors for a while, and so she spent a lot of time writing up the thread and finding heaps of example photos of boxed homebrew games. It wasn't about an app store at all, even though that is another idea Cammy had been discussing for years without much support.

So you can see why Amigakit barging in here and stomping on her dreams so soon after censoring a thread made by well-meaning community members to support her might upset her and drive her off.

Got depression because of bullied out of the community? She should not take all that so personal or better keep off if it harms her.

Pascal has posted here that related news were not published or very soon removed again. I will certainly post news regarding Aros and the App Store here, then we will see if this has really become a A-eon/Amigakit marketing platform like some people think.

[amigakit]

@rebelCD32

I think there has been a few misunderstandings here and I want to set the record straight. That thread was closed from public consumption because a few concerned members here pointed out that it was a discussion of private personal matters without Cammy being present and volunteering that information.  I agreed with that view point because I considered that I would not want details of my private life discussed or viewed by other people on a public forum without first giving my permission or providing that information first hand for all to read.

I hope this clarifies the intention behind the action.

I apologise if I took the thread off topic with my post. It won't happen again.

@Olafs3
To my knowledge Pascal has not had any news items removed.  If a news item is not in a formal news format or more appropriately a forum discussion item (not news release worthy) then it will not get approved. There has been many AROS related threads approved for news though.