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Offline whabang

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Re: Writing a CV/Resumé
« Reply #44 from previous page: February 17, 2004, 12:42:59 PM »
Hehe!
To be honest, contacts is what gives you a job in the end. :\
Beating the dead horse since 2002.
 

Offline KennyRTopic starter

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Re: Writing a CV/Resumé
« Reply #45 on: February 17, 2004, 01:17:49 PM »
@Cymric

Excellent points all round, and your post was everything I wanted to hear. If it was a kick in the ass, I didn't feel it - it made some things very clear. I needed people to tell me these things straight, and not just say "Well, it's easy, I did it, you can do it..."


@Glaucus

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Having no life in Uni is normal (my sister who's in med has no life either, and that's normal). If anything it says you're responsible (that's a good thing) and comitted (that's another good thing).


See, it's this skill I lack totally - how to pluck positive things out of less positive. I'm just totally blind to that. Do you know of a list of these kind of things maybe someone has published on the internet? I know, I know...it's a long shot. But even a joke list would have some use. ;-)


@minator

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You sound like a geek, OK with 5000+ posts here you are a geek. That probably means you will find marketing difficult.


Well, not your classical geek. :-P You won't find me rollplaying or being a guru in BSD/Linux or watching Star Trek and knowing every episode. I'm as focused as a geek though - which I suppose technically makes me one. ;-)

As for 5000 posts - it's amazing what you can do when you have no job.

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>Being 26 when most over graduates are 22, that has to be a very,
>very good trick.

What were you doing?


Failing a computing degree. I did manage to get a fairly feeble HNC out of it, but that should have only taken one year and I stretched it out to three. I should have realised earlier that I just wasn't interested in it, but sh*t happens...

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>None of my interests or hobbies (which I don't have much of) will cast
>a very positive light on me, in fact they'll probably stereotype me.

Everyone is different, what are they?


IRC.

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You may even be depressed (yes, really).


Luckily, no. I know what it is to be depressed. I'm contented. Probably too contented, hence the problem working up any enthuisiasm for a change of life.


@Tigger

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Teamwork is pretty important at most jobs, why don't you work well in teams???


I'm too independent and too opinionated, really. I don't have any leadership qualities but at the same time I don't take authority well. What has happened before with teamwork efforts in uni is that I haven't liked the direction the team was going, so went and did it differently myself, usually doubling effort all over the place.

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Interests and hobbies, people always underestimate the appeal of this section. In the past I have gotten interviews because I: (lists 5 interesting and colourful hobbies)


I don't have anything near as eye-catching as hobbies. Basically, right now I spend most of my time on IRC and this forum, watching DVDs on rare occassions, and playing old Playstation games when I'm bored. I read, but not fiction. That's it.

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Kenny I guess my comment is that if you really believe that you are not fun to be around, not hard working and not devoted, why exactly do you think someone should hire you??


Well, they wouldn't, and I wouldn't expect them to hire me if I went out and said it straight like that. That's why I don't. But anyone who hires me can expect to find me businesslike, detached, and not really interested in contributing anything outside of official work. Nor will I form anything but working relationships with anyone around me.

None of this is very positive. I'm still trying to find a way to make it sound positive. That's the hard part.

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I mean do you really think your technical knowledge is so good that as a new hire you can be an asshole, slack off and not show up on days you dont feel like it???


Definitely not. But my reasons for wanting a job are to pay off student loans and get some money in. I don't have any major ambitions related to work or social life.

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Have you really never had a job of any kind???


No. None whatsoever.

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Also more importantly, what do you mean by no references??


I really don't know what to do about that. I've lost contact with my lecturers and couldn't ask to put them down as references by the time I realised I needed any. Family members aren't usable as references, either.

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If you aren't sure who to use, list references available upon request, that way that section isnt a negative.


Thanks, that's a good idea. My bluff will be called if they request though (or I'll have to make an emergency trip to the uni to see what I can find, not much I guess).

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Also I guess my other issue is, you graduated in Autumn of 2003, why exactly have you waited till now to work on your resume???


Well, I had to wait until almost November for the results, after missing a June exam due to illness. After that, I've applied for two jobs, and none have asked for a CV yet. They didn't ask for an interview either. I have a CV, but as you can see up in the thread, it's crap.

You also have to understand that, although Scotland pumps out graduates, it has very, very little work for them. Even less for the professional/scientific sector. I might see one job advertised every 2 weeks, if I'm very lucky. It will almost always require a minimum of years of experience.

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I am sure someone is going to ask what you have been doing for the last 6 months.


I'll tell them what I told you: local jobs in this area are extremely hard to find, and I'm not willing to move country. After a year of this I'll have to chalk off my degree, it'll be useless by then.


@mikeymike

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Another thing - if you've ever done work experience, put it down! Employment history (work experience)!


I don't. I've also done nothing extra-curricular remotely worth noting.  
 

Offline Speelgoedmannetje

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Re: Writing a CV/Resumé
« Reply #46 on: February 17, 2004, 01:31:56 PM »
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KennyR wrote:
@mikeymike

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Another thing - if you've ever done work experience, put it down! Employment history (work experience)!


I don't. I've also done nothing extra-curricular remotely worth noting.  
:lol: even in Einstein's curriculum would've stated his job at the gasstation (if he had such a job)
And the canary said: \'chirp\'
 

Offline whabang

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Re: Writing a CV/Resumé
« Reply #47 on: February 17, 2004, 01:35:17 PM »
Einstein worked at a brewery in Australia! :-D
Beating the dead horse since 2002.
 

Offline KennyRTopic starter

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Re: Writing a CV/Resumé
« Reply #48 on: February 17, 2004, 02:29:35 PM »
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Speelgoedmannetje wrote:
even in Einstein's curriculum would've stated his job at the gasstation (if he had such a job)


And mine would too, if I had anything to put. But I don't. Not a thing. Not a club, not an achievement, not a part time job. I didn't even deliver papers at 14. I even dodged Work Experience Week at school (it sucked anyway).
 

Offline Speelgoedmannetje

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Re: Writing a CV/Resumé
« Reply #49 on: February 17, 2004, 02:37:04 PM »
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KennyR wrote:
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Speelgoedmannetje wrote:
even in Einstein's curriculum would've stated his job at the gasstation (if he had such a job)


And mine would too, if I had anything to put. But I don't. Not a thing. Not a club, not an achievement, not a part time job. I didn't even deliver papers at 14. I even dodged Work Experience Week at school (it sucked anyway).

:lol:
You are really not the only one I can assure you. I have hardly any experience at work wich is payed for either.
But you do have a chemistry degree and I think you're really REALLY underestimating that achievement.

Btw. I really can reccomend you to join a club where you think you'll be at the right place. It'll give you a hell of a lot experience in dealing with other humans as well as dealing with yourself at some points (tricky, the latter, I admit).
And the canary said: \'chirp\'
 

Offline mikeymike

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Re: Writing a CV/Resumé
« Reply #50 on: February 17, 2004, 03:04:39 PM »
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See, it's this skill I lack totally - how to pluck positive things out of less positive.

Well I have some bad news for you.  It's a skill you need or you'll never get anywhere (assuming you want a decent career that reflects the effort you put into your qualifications).

If you don't think positive you'll end up stuck in a dead-end job.  As someone said earlier about attitude being easily derived from how a CV is written.

And don't think "well I'm #OOPS#ed", know that you have to do something about it.  No ifs, no buts.  Failure is not an option.

On the geek scale, I'm probably halfway up the scale.  But one of the things I most want to keep improving are my people skills.  It is so bloody important.  And I'm speaking from experience.  I'm not a 'veteran', but I've certainly had a few experiences that tell me this.

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Failing a computing degree. I did manage to get a fairly feeble HNC out of it, but that should have only taken one year and I stretched it out to three. I should have realised earlier that I just wasn't interested in it, but sh*t happens...

Yeah, well, I would have probably screwed up a computing degree had I gone for it.  My programming skills suck.  But I still have a lot to offer in the field of computing.

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I'm too independent and too opinionated, really. I don't have any leadership qualities but at the same time I don't take authority well.

Most of my old work friends might have described themselves like that, yet I've worked with them on projects before we became friends and worked together perfectly well.  I like to think I'm independent, and I'm quite opinionated, but it is experience that showed me I can work in a group easily.  Taking authority well is always a thorny issue.  Annoying/crap authority no-one takes well.  Decent forms of authority shouldn't even be noticed as such, as in, the authority figure(s) form (in a non-obstructive way) part of the machine that makes it better.

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so went and did it differently myself, usually doubling effort all over the place.

People skills and maturity.  If you're open to picking them up along the way, they're easy to pick up.

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I don't have anything near as eye-catching as hobbies. Basically, right now I spend most of my time on IRC and this forum, watching DVDs on rare occassions, and playing old Playstation games when I'm bored. I read, but not fiction. That's it.

How about a bit of web design work on the side, maintaining your own website, helping out with bug tracking for a particular product, maintaining your own server, taking windy walks (:-)), GETTING OUT OF THE HOUSE ONCE IN A WHILE, cycling, just something!  And if you still say no, then switch off your computer and GO SOMEWHERE!

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No. None whatsoever.

Not even McDonalds?

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I really don't know what to do about that. I've lost contact with my lecturers and couldn't ask to put them down as references by the time I realised I needed any. Family members aren't usable as references, either.

Say hello to the same situation as pretty much everyone else  out of university.  Now go call your lecturer(s) and ask them nicely! :-)  Get someone you know, anyone, aunt, uncle, whomever to write a personal reference for you.

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Thanks, that's a good idea. My bluff will be called if they request though (or I'll have to make an emergency trip to the uni to see what I can find, not much I guess).

I've never been asked for references.  But contact details are a good thing to list.

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I'll tell them what I told you: local jobs in this area are extremely hard to find, and I'm not willing to move country. After a year of this I'll have to chalk off my degree, it'll be useless by then.

No it won't, you're older than the green guys just out of uni.  But the longer you spend out of work, the less attractive it'll look.  And sodding move country if you can't find work.  Unless you want to live on benefit for the rest of your life.  And you'll find that to be effort well-wasted as well.

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Definitely not. But my reasons for wanting a job are to pay off student loans and get some money in. I don't have any major ambitions related to work or social life.

Think up some decent reasons before going for interview.  And work can be quite rewarding, as well as the money.

says me, self-employed :-)

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I don't. I've also done nothing extra-curricular remotely worth noting.

What exactly have you done with your life?
 

Offline KennyRTopic starter

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Re: Writing a CV/Resumé
« Reply #51 on: February 17, 2004, 03:51:56 PM »
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Mikeymike wrote:
If you don't think positive you'll end up stuck in a dead-end job. As someone said earlier about attitude being easily derived from how a CV is written.


Well, as long as it's well paid, I'm not sure that's a bad thing. I'm not ambitious - especially not in the field of careers. A lot of people view a career as a life. I view it as an annoying but necessary thing to have to do to be allowed to get on with my life as I see fit.

(I'm not stupid enough to tell employers that though, don't worry.)

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Not even McDonalds?


No.

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Now go call your lecturer(s) and ask them nicely! Get someone you know, anyone, aunt, uncle, whomever to write a personal reference for you.


Here's where the problems begin. Most of my lecturers left the university even before I took the final exam. (Through most of the final two years we got one rather overworked lecturer doing most stuff with us). If these lecturers don't answer to their email addresses, I really have no idea how to contact them.

And as I said, references from personal aquaintances are useless. That, at least, is something all CV writing guides seem to agree on.

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But the longer you spend out of work, the less attractive it'll look. And sodding move country if you can't find work.


I've put a lot of thought into this over the last few months and I've decided I don't want to move. My family is here and I have really nothing without my family. So I'd rather throw my degree away than move further away than a few hours travel from them. *shrugs* That's just the way it has to be.

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Unless you want to live on benefit for the rest of your life.


Nothing to do with want, I can't stay on benefit. Not unless I intentionally cripple myself for disability or something. Or win the lottery (which is unlikely because I don't buy tickets).

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What exactly have you done with your life?


Nothing.
 

Offline that_punk_guy

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Re: Writing a CV/Resumé
« Reply #52 on: February 17, 2004, 03:55:50 PM »
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KennyR wrote:
Nothing.


Well, on the upside, you've got a beast of a post-count!
 

Offline Speelgoedmannetje

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Re: Writing a CV/Resumé
« Reply #53 on: February 17, 2004, 03:58:36 PM »
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KennyR wrote:
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What exactly have you done with your life?


Nothing.
Sorry KennyR, but you seem to me as a VERY educated person. Reading books, reading newspapers etcetera etcetera, it ALL counts.
And the canary said: \'chirp\'
 

Offline mikeymike

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Re: Writing a CV/Resumé
« Reply #54 on: February 17, 2004, 04:28:32 PM »
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KennyR wrote:
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Mikeymike wrote:
If you don't think positive you'll end up stuck in a dead-end job. As someone said earlier about attitude being easily derived from how a CV is written.

Well, as long as it's well paid, I'm not sure that's a bad thing.

Yeah, well wait till you get there.  And assuming that a dead-end job is going to be a generally nice one is a bad assumption.
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I'm not ambitious - especially not in the field of careers. A lot of people view a career as a life. I view it as an annoying but necessary thing to have to do to be allowed to get on with my life as I see fit.

That's because you have no experience of it.  A career is a significant part of your life, and you'll want to enjoy a significant part of your life.

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Not even McDonalds?

No.

Well first things first.  Get yourself an unskilled job to put on your CV, then apply for skilled jobs.  If you can't find yourself an unskilled job either, you'll have to move to another country.

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Now go call your lecturer(s) and ask them nicely! Get someone you know, anyone, aunt, uncle, whomever to write a personal reference for you.

Here's where the problems begin. Most of my lecturers left the university even before I took the final exam. (Through most of the final two years we got one rather overworked lecturer doing most stuff with us). If these lecturers don't answer to their email addresses, I really have no idea how to contact them.

There's an interesting adventure for you.

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And as I said, references from personal aquaintances are useless.

Says you, who hasn't ever applied for posting a job vacancy before :-)

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That, at least, is something all CV writing guides seem to agree on.

They're wrong.  A personal acquaintance might be an ex work colleague for example.

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But the longer you spend out of work, the less attractive it'll look. And sodding move country if you can't find work.

I've put a lot of thought into this over the last few months and I've decided I don't want to move. My family is here and I have really nothing without my family.

Don't tell me: you went to university just around the corner from home.  /me shakes head.

I really doubt any raw school/uni leaver is going to find decent work in Scotland.  You can visit your family at weekends.  All part of life.

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Unless you want to live on benefit for the rest of your life.

Nothing to do with want, I can't stay on benefit. Not unless I intentionally cripple myself for disability or something. Or win the lottery (which is unlikely because I don't buy tickets).

You'd be surprised the number of people who can and do claim benefit for pretty much life.

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What exactly have you done with your life?

Nothing.

Well I guess that's what it comes down to, what do you want your epitaph to be: Lazy bastard, who spent his life on the Internet, and didn't experience anything for himself.

Seriously reconsider how you're going to live your life before asking how to write a CV.
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: Writing a CV/Resumé
« Reply #55 on: February 17, 2004, 04:35:30 PM »
Look KennyR... With your ability to look miserably upon life, I suggest you get something in customer services... maybe get a job at the Job Center?

Offline mikeymike

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Re: Writing a CV/Resumé
« Reply #56 on: February 17, 2004, 04:43:31 PM »
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Look KennyR... With your ability to look miserably upon life, I suggest you get something in customer services... maybe get a job at the Job Center?

Yep, there are also plenty of telephone sales/customer service jobs to simply disappear into.
 

Offline KennyRTopic starter

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Re: Writing a CV/Resumé
« Reply #57 on: February 17, 2004, 04:48:29 PM »
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Don't tell me: you went to university just around the corner from home. /me shakes head.


20 seconds walk from my house to the bus stop. Five minute wait. Twenty minute journey to uni. 30 seconds walk from bus stop to uni.

I didn't live at uni, or experience any part of uni life outside lessons (thankfully - I'm not into drink, whoring or getting stoned). I went to lectures, then went home afterwards. That's how it was.
 

Offline KennyRTopic starter

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Re: Writing a CV/Resumé
« Reply #58 on: February 17, 2004, 04:50:12 PM »
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Bloodline wrote:
Look KennyR... With your ability to look miserably upon life, I suggest you get something in customer services... maybe get a job at the Job Center?


;-)

But seriously, I don't want any job that will force me to be near or to work with neds. That puts call centre and civil service right out. :-P
 

Offline smithy

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Re: Writing a CV/Resumé
« Reply #59 on: February 17, 2004, 06:03:12 PM »
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Now go call your lecturer(s) and ask them nicely!  Get someone you know, anyone, aunt, uncle, whomever to write a personal reference for you


There is no need to put references on your CV.  References are usually (if ever) taken up after a successful interview and aren't used to determine whether to interview someone.  A company that's recruiting doesn't spend more than 30 seconds scanning a CV, and couldn't even dial your reference up in that time!  If they want references, they'll ask for them.

Many companies now refuse to ask or give references - the business of references has opened up a whole new legal minefield - for example, companies giving useless staff excelletn references to get rid of them and vice versa.