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Author Topic: Writing a CV/Resumé  (Read 9304 times)

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Offline T_Bone

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Re: Writing a CV/Resumé
« Reply #29 on: February 16, 2004, 11:01:00 PM »
Quote

Speelgoedmannetje wrote:

Sorry to violate Aorg's rules, but you do not have any clue what you're talking about.


AAaaaaahhhhhh!!!! Anyone else get chills up their spine when he said that? I'm seeing DoomMasters everywhere!  :lol:
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Offline T_Bone

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Re: Writing a CV/Resumé
« Reply #30 on: February 16, 2004, 11:04:26 PM »
Quote

KennyR wrote:
Quote
Can you not write down in an informal way for yourself what you've been doing past years as a hobby (wich does not necesarily be important to your employer) and what you like and what you like to do in the future and so?


I can, but it's not flattering.


:roflmao:

The look on their face would be worth it though!

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Offline mikeymike

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Re: Writing a CV/Resumé
« Reply #31 on: February 16, 2004, 11:08:11 PM »
Quote
2) Personal Profile
HOW DO YOU SEE YOURSELF?


KennyR, I've been on both sides of the interview table, I've seen a lot of CVs and I've never seen a section in one like that.

"Personal statements" are definitely optional extras as well.

If your CV still needs padding out when you're done with every other section, have a think about adding a personal statement of some sort.

Example:

CV of someone I know
 

Offline Speelgoedmannetje

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Re: Writing a CV/Resumé
« Reply #32 on: February 16, 2004, 11:08:43 PM »
Quote

T_Bone wrote:
Quote

Speelgoedmannetje wrote:

Sorry to violate Aorg's rules, but you do not have any clue what you're talking about.


AAaaaaahhhhhh!!!! Anyone else get chills up their spine when he said that? I'm seeing DoomMasters everywhere!  :lol:


:lol: I tried tried tried to make that sentence sound DIFFERENT than DoomMaster's
And the canary said: \'chirp\'
 

Offline Cymric

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Re: Writing a CV/Resumé
« Reply #33 on: February 16, 2004, 11:15:46 PM »
@KennyR:

Perhaps you will find the following helpful. You may get ticked by the relative frankness of my reply: please keep in mind that I am only trying to be honest and supportive, even if that means giving you a figurative kick in the a**. Consider mine spanked afterwards, okay? :-))

The first I noticed about your post and subsequent replies is that you're too damn negative about yourself. Stop. That. Right. Now. If you are not happy with yourself, you will have to divulge in some pretty deep and brutally honest soul-searching. Otherwise that attitude will shine like a beacon in whatever text you manage to write, and earn you a rejection instead of an interview. Capitalize on your good qualities. You have an honours degree. You are (judging from the texts I've seen here) an eloquent fellow with a very definite opinion of your own. You are passionate about Amigas, and probably computers in general. You are specialized in some areas, much more so than any other person. (Yes, you are.) And so forth. You will feel silly writing the first raving paragraph about yourself, I know. You'll hate yourself for turning yourself into a marketable entity. Shoot the bastard responsible for forcing you to do that. But *after* you've landed the job, please.

Second issue: Stop trying to guess what the recruiter will think of your resume. The secret is that you can't guess, so stop wasting time and precious energy pondering the imponderable. It's not your job to supply the recruiter with the information he needs ro reject you, anyway. He needs to ferret that out in an interview, and preferably not even then.

Third point: if writing recruiter bullsh*t is not your thing, then don't write recruiter bullsh*t! That sounds like an open door, but it is forgotten by nearly everyone. BE YOURSELF. I can't stress that enough. Think of it this way: if you were the recruiter, being bombarded with hundreds of resumes, all spouting the feelgood nonsense. There's a few who do not. Who would you select for an interview ...? Good. (I got selected for an interview once because I had the audacity to respond to the question 'Do you object against partaking in a psychological assessment?' with 'Yes, I do, because I consider such tests to be pseudo-scientifical nonsense and thus a complete waste of time'.)

Point four: If you are so concerned about not being able to work good in a team, or not being mobile enough, are you applying to the right sort of job, then? Do you envisage being happy in a job where teamwork is essential? Or, alternatively, why don't you like teamwork? You know your strengths and weaknesses better than anyone else in the world. Accept that you are not the perfect person, and that it is extremely unlikely that your direct competitors for a job are too. Match the job to the person, and not the person to the job.

Five: you *have* weaknesses and bad character traits. So do I. So does everyone else. The trick is not hiding them. (Well, most of the time.) The trick is showing the recruiter you know what they are and how you deal with them. Take the teamwork issue: it is rare for people not working together in teams anymore. You don't like it, but what happens if you need to? How do you plan on dealing with it?

Six: Stop trying to comply with arbitrary resume-writing standards. They're all a waste of bandwidth. Make sure it holds your personal details, your education, previous working experiences, interests, extra-curricular activities and language skills (if you have any). Include single-line summary of job descriptions. Mention highlights (as in 'graduated with honours', 'wrote funky code for A.org, now used by thousands of people', etc.) or keywords which describe the job. Do not see it as bragging about yourself: you did do those things, did you not? Then they're just statements of fact. If the recruiter thinks you're a pompous a** by mentioning those, you don't want to work for that company anyway. The resume should whet the recruiter's appetite for more, therefore it is FORBIDDEN to use negative language. Write about what you did, not what you did *not* or failed to do.

I hope you found it useful.
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Offline Glaucus

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Re: Writing a CV/Resumé
« Reply #34 on: February 17, 2004, 01:06:02 AM »
Quote
Why, do you think I have difficulty communicating my opinions?
Well...  we all clealy know your opinion of one particular boring person who hangs around these parts... (not mentioning any names though! ;-) ).

Well, you can mention the fact that you are a lone crusader fighting the evils of smoking, alchohol, Microsoft, corporationism, capitalism, globalisation,  Big Macs and America! If that doesn't work, accuse them of being conspirators - in cahoots with George Bush - and plotting against you!!

Perhaps this is a sign that one needs to get out more, perhaps join a sports team, or buy a bike, go travel or join a terror group...

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Offline Glaucus

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Re: Writing a CV/Resumé
« Reply #35 on: February 17, 2004, 01:10:35 AM »
@speelgoglygook...

What IS Asperger's anyway?!? I too have always hated writing up my resume and find it hard to sell myself.

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Offline Glaucus

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Re: Writing a CV/Resumé
« Reply #36 on: February 17, 2004, 01:24:03 AM »
@Kenny,

On my resume I put down some of my interests, such as audio hi-fi/home theater stuff, cars, travelling, etc. You can definetly put down some of your interests (computers being one of the obvious ones, politcs another, although I wouldn't dwell or even mention that unless you're in some debate club or something like that).

No need to be too defensive about all this, you just got out of uni, right? Having no life in Uni is normal (my sister who's in med has no life either, and that's normal). If anything it says you're responsible (that's a good thing) and comitted (that's another good thing).

Anyway, I still think it would do you some good to just go travelling. Go visit speel in the Netherlands (Amsterdam might do you some good ;-) ) or perhaps drink the town dry with Iama in Melbourne (I'd want that on DVD!!! ;-) ). You went to Uni to learn how to work, perhaps now what you need is to just kick back and learn how to live!

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Offline blobrana

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Re: Writing a CV/Resumé
« Reply #37 on: February 17, 2004, 01:30:13 AM »
Hum,
I think i`ll butt in here...
Asperger's Syndrome is like a less severe case of what the `rain-man` had...
There is growing evidence that all the leading scientists , like Einstein, darwin, newton etc all had this syndrome...

A sure sign is that the subject doesn`t communicate, or register subtle facial emotions, or have hand eye coordination.
But counter balanced by a high degree of mathematical or musical or obsessive qualities...

I  a few of my friends have this symdrom...


[extract from Dr Finley's case-book]

BTW inn your CV , have the most recent jobs at the top, and restrict the most important items to only one page, (first)

Offline minator

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Re: Writing a CV/Resumé
« Reply #38 on: February 17, 2004, 01:44:43 AM »
>Cymric

Excellent post, says it as it should be.


As for my 2 (Euro) Cents:

A CV is all marketing, you have to think what they are looking for and produce it.  Just don't lie, and as Cymeric say negative things are *forbidden*.

You sound like a geek, OK with 5000+ posts here you are a geek.  That probably means you will find marketing difficult.

But, You can spin anything...

>I'm not really well suited to exaggerating my abilities, which are
>very few but very specialised.

That means you are probably very good at them.
Specialisation is not necessarily bad, it can earn you a heap of money.

>I don't work well in a team and can't pretend I do.

That means you are "independant and self motivated" (direct quote from my CV).

>None of my interests or hobbies (which I don't have much of) will cast
>a very positive light on me, in fact they'll probably stereotype me.

Everyone is different, what are they?

>If I wrote everything I learned, the CV would be 10 pages long.

But it's a good start from which you can cut things down.

>I've done almost nothing outside education that would be of
>possible interest to an employer.

You'd be surprised, actually I think you can tell a lot from peoples interests.  They tell things about you.

You obviously are an Amiga fan, thats says something as well.

You are _still_ an Amiga fan which means persistence and fighting against adversity.

>I don't think "Has more comments on Amiga.org than anyone else"

"I am a highly active participant in on-line discussion boards"
"Well developed writing and debating skills"

Do you help people with problems?  What do you discuss?

>Being 26 when most over graduates are 22, that has to be a very,
>very good trick.

What were you doing?

>HOW DO YOU SEE YOURSELF?
Hmm, I hate those as well...
What are your dreams? your ambitions?

>Asperger's isn't universally accepted by psychologists.

If you know that it says something, Do you like to learn, like to read?
They're both good.

>I guess it is just my fault for being such a negative assh*le and I
>really am unemployable.

You sound negative, You certainly lack confidence.
You may even be depressed (yes, really).

Get some "St Johns Wort" it's a mild anti-depressant, works wonders if you have the blues.

You really have to work on your confidence though, if you have a degree that alone means you have achieved something (I don't have any degree).  If it's with honours it means you have done better than most people.

>References
Friends of the family, especially in high positions or officialdom (police etc).


Find a book on CVs and Interviews, they'll give you some pointers.
There is no right way or wrong way, so yes they all disagree.
 

Offline whabang

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Re: Writing a CV/Resumé
« Reply #39 on: February 17, 2004, 07:50:51 AM »
@KilKenny
I didn't suggest that you should lie, I simply think that you should list your qualities and explain, in short terms, how you aquired them.
If you can't, write your qualifications down and call it a list of merits! :-D
Beating the dead horse since 2002.
 

Offline Tigger

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Re: Writing a CV/Resumé
« Reply #40 on: February 17, 2004, 09:04:50 AM »
Quote

KennyR wrote:

I have an honours degree, but everyone else applying for jobs I'll be applying for will have the same.

Thats true Kenny, how many graduated with you with your same degree??  You need to let them know why you should be one of the 4 or 5 new grads they should interview for the job openings they have.   Your sample one below isnt likely to get you an interview unless noone else applies so it needs work.

Quote

I'm not really well suited to exaggerating my abilities, which are very few but very specialised. That's why I can't write this buzzword bullsh*t that employers want to hear. I don't work well in a team and can't pretend I do. I don't do anything dynamic or upwardly mobile. None of my interests or hobbies (which I don't have much of) will cast a very positive light on me, in fact they'll probably stereotype me.

First of all writing this buzzward b***S**T is most likely easier then any day you will ever have at work, so you need to get over it.   Your negativity is likely to kill you in an interview as well.  Teamwork is pretty important at most jobs, why don't you work well in teams???  What jobs are you applying too that you think won't require you to work in a team atmosphere.   Interests and hobbies, people always underestimate the appeal of this section.   In the past I have gotten interviews because I:

1) trained dolphins and the guy was a fan of flipper
2) Rock climbed and the interviewee was a spelunker
3) Scuba Dive (I get alot of hits on that one)
4) travel (they wanted someone with a passport to replace the guy who was afraid to fly)
5) Bowl (they wanted me for a league)

I'm not sure what interests or hobbies you have Kenny, but most non destructive ones can be spun positively.

When it comes to new grads, the personal section always is the tie breaker, you need to put something there, or be prepared to lose each tie.  

Quote

Do I lie my ass off and say I'm a fun person who's great to be around, hard working and devoted, I enjoy playing squash and working voluntarily for the samaritans? Or do I miss this part out completely?

Kenny I guess my comment is that if you really believe that you are not fun to be around, not hard working and not devoted, why exactly do you think someone should hire you??  I mean do you really think your technical knowledge is so good that as a new hire you can be an asshole, slack off and not show up on days you dont feel like it???

Quote

Work History: none.

References/referees: none.

Personal details: I'm very literate and...*grind* *tax brain* *groan*...I give up.


I hope you are just playing negative here and this isnt really the truth.  Have you really never had a job of any kind???   Thats a question thats going to get asked even if you clean up the rest and get an interview.   Also more importantly, what do you mean by no references??   Are we talking noone will tell people that hiring you is a good idea??   Not a professor, a family member, a friend, anyone??  Almost any job is going to require a contact number to verify your place of residence etc, references none, is never a good idea.  If you aren't sure who to use, list references available upon request, that way that section isnt a negative.  Also I would go with I am very literate if you really think you must list it that way actually I would instead list reading as a hobby, knowing that they are going to ask you a favorite book.   Be sure its one you have at least read.   You arent' old enough to choose Sun Tzu or Machiavelli, fair warning from someone who is that old.   Also I guess my other issue is, you graduated in Autumn of 2003, why exactly have you waited till now to work on your resume???   I had nine interviews and eight offers before I left school, I am sure someone is going to ask what you have been doing for the last 6 months.
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Offline mikeymike

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Re: Writing a CV/Resumé
« Reply #41 on: February 17, 2004, 09:36:24 AM »
Another thing - if you've ever done work experience, put it down!  Employment history (work experience)!
 

Offline KennyRTopic starter

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Re: Writing a CV/Resumé
« Reply #42 on: February 17, 2004, 12:33:28 PM »
Wow, an AO thread is like a wine: the longer you leave it the better it gets! :-D Or is that 'whine'...? ;-) Never mind. Lots of good points from everyone, and I'll have to pick through it and paste bits in a text editor to reply the most pertitent points. Thanks everyone!
 

Offline that_punk_guy

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Re: Writing a CV/Resumé
« Reply #43 on: February 17, 2004, 12:39:52 PM »
You know what I did? I blu-tacked an A3 piece of paper on the wall and wrote the words, "I am..." at the top. Then I just brainstormed, with one-word qualities. Then when I had enough, I stuck them in sentences. It felt very positive! :-)

Although, having said that... Three months later I'm still unemployed. ;-)
 

Offline whabang

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Re: Writing a CV/Resumé
« Reply #44 from previous page: February 17, 2004, 12:42:59 PM »
Hehe!
To be honest, contacts is what gives you a job in the end. :\
Beating the dead horse since 2002.