Amiga One X 1000 and Xena/Xorro

[LyleHaze]

Thank you for that info! (again)

...a thought about xena->CPU interrupt ... very nice that interrupt can be generated, it would be nice to do interrupt driven things rather than the M$ USB polling methology, there's better use for CPUs than polling interfaces.

It is there, and surely will get used. So far I have really had no need.
The "unique" properties of links on an XMOS chip create certain problems.. Serialized data can flow extremely fast, but will stall for any read without write or write without read.  Ther is no "read until there is no more", as the last read would hang the reader indefinitely.

This _should_ be easy enough to work around, but if your solution is not 100%, then your Xena will hang indefinitely.

As a result, my first projects use a very simple structure where all reads and writes are 16 bits, no matter what, and every transaction between the localbus and the Xena chip is broken down into individual "write then read" loops. This helps keep things simple, but not as fast as they could be at all.

Also a result of this is that I have had no need for interrupts at all yet.

I do have one-directional streaming for higher bandwidth data paths.. but I'm probably gertting into more detail than casual conversation requires.

The line is there, and connected to a GPIO pin on the PA6T. One day when I or someone else needs an interrupt, then progress will be made on this front.
One other user has already inquired about using this line for something else, and I have discoraged that, obviously because once this becomes an interrupt, spurious events for random reasons will not be good for the system.

There is a big list of "stuff to do".. my current project is not a perfect example of properly structured code.. It's more proof of concept than anything else.

There are other users at XCore who are working on a system that will dynamically allocate threads(cores) and also control the switching fabric to allocate their necessary resources, all on the fly. This is obviously better than our current system, which limits us to pre-compiled complete projects.

One possible use that has not yet been mentioned, there is code available for both SHA2 and AES encryption. I'm no crypto guy but having that code available might be useful. I don't know if the X1000 has a guaranteed unique serial number anywhere, but combining that with the crypto stuff could be useful for secure confirmation of machine I.D... and it could be done with no Xorro card or hardware at all.. just what the machine ships with already.

Hell the Xena chip may have a unique ID in itself. that would certainly streamline things. I'll have to look into that.

Nobody loves copy protection, but if it can be done in a way that does not interfere with performance for the registered user, then I don't mind it either.

I need to go.. Nice chatting with you!

LyleHaze

[Dandy]

The whole Xena/Xorro thing was marketing BS and almost useless (as history has shown) unfortunately.

It was just today that I found a link at amiga-news.de to "The Almost forgotten Story of the Amiga 2000" at http://amigalounge.com/b270.html.

This article tells the story of a 3rd party add-on for the Amiga 2000 that helped to make the A2k  a big success:

"Changing The World

Ironically, this workstation would go on to change the world, but most people would never know it, for the game changer was not built by Commodore, but a "add on" piece of hardware from a little known (at the time) Topeka, Kansas based company called Newtek.
 
..."

My hope is that XENA/XORRO might also one day become one of the most important "ambassadors" for the AmigaOne X1000 in conjunction with a 3rd party "killer" add-on for the A1 X1k, like the "VideoToaster" did for the A2k.

Based on the knowledge that is availabe on the web to me so far, I see a lot of potential in XENA/XORRO.

Hopefully there will come up more of these valuable remarks from insiders like those by Hans and Lyle.
A big "thank you" to them for their contributions so far!
I'm sure the more information on the A1 X1k's XENA/XORRO becomes available, the easier people can get inspired to come up with good ideas for a possible usage of XENA/XORRO.

But I am also interested in hearing(reading) more about the integration of XENA/XORRO into the AmigaOS:
- How should a good GUI for the implementation look like?
- What functionality should such an implemention come up with?
- What can/has to be done to get a decent, OS 4 native dev kit for the A1 X1k's XENA/XORRO from XMOS?

Be it a sort of "AmigaNG Boing Ball Demo", where a real red-white chequered table tennis ball is played in a Plexiglas box by an table-robot operated table tennis racket controlled by an Amiga1 X1k via XORRO involving a camera system (like in driving assistance systems), or be it a CNC controller, a controlling system for real steam model railways, a debug logging system or what-do-I-know.

I think with such a "AmigaNG Boing Ball Demo" A-Eon could very well demonstrate the capabilities of this XENA/XORRO thingie and also inspire the visionairs within the community and even attract "outsiders", while at the same time advancing the tradition of the Amiga's famous Boing ball demo.

So lets be patient and see if/when a "third party" comes up with THE "killer" add-on for the A1 X1k - or better lets use our own ingenuity to come up with good ideas for the use of XENA/XORRO ourselves.

Perhaps NASA can utilise it - their area of operation should be the ultimate environment for a system like the A1 X1k - given that already the classic Amiga line turned out to be ideally suited for processing the telemetry data of space missions:
https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=39211744315

But just calling the "whole Xena/Xorro thing marketing BS and almost useless" is not really what I'd call "using our own ingenuity to come up with good ideas for the use of XENA/XORRO" - sorry, but I'd rather call that "lack of phantasy and vision"...

[itix]

My hope is that XENA/XORRO might also one day become one of the most important "ambassadors" for the AmigaOne X1000 in conjunction with a 3rd party "killer" add-on for the A1 X1k, like the "VideoToaster" did for the A2k.

A1 X1K was launched in 2010. Amiga 2000 was launched in 1987. To relate with this X1K should be living Amiga year 1991 now.

[persia]

XMOS simplifies High Speed USB Audio design

0 Comments  
March 19th, 2012
The highest performance, integrated solution

XMOS®, developer of the industry’s first event-driven 32-bit embedded processor, announces the release of its third generation family. The XS1-S family delivers up to 700 MIPS of real-time performance per core combined with integrated analog functionality, enabling the highest quality, multi-channel USB audio applications. Combined with XMOS industry standard USB audio IP, the XS1-S family of devices deliver the lowest latency digital audio interfaces.

“The XS1-S Family builds upon the predictable real-time performance of the XS1 architecture, offering increased I/O and processing capabilities together with the convenience of integrated analog peripherals.” said Tom Lee, XMOS vice president of sales and marketing. “Our customers have shipped over half a million USB audio products using XS1 devices. The higher performance, integrated XS1-S Family and its accompanying software and tools deliver the ideal solution to an even broader range of audio applications”.

The XS1-S Family of single and dual core devices include a rich set of analog and digital features:

32bit XCore embedded processor(s) delivering up to 700 MIPS each
Software defined I/O for fully-flexible digital peripherals including I2S, TDM, SPDIF AES/EBU.
High Speed USB 2.0 Phy
12bit 1MSPS Analog to Digital Converter
USB bus power compatible
Standby and deep sleep modes for energy sensitive applications
Power On Reset, Watchdog timer, brownout detect circuits
On-chip crystal oscillator
High Speed USB Audio

The first members of the XS1-S Family include single and dual XCore variants with integrated USB 2.0 High Speed Phy, making them ideal for demanding USB audio interfaces, DJ products, USB speakers and more. Using XMOS unique flexibility, the devices are also perfect for intelligent USB peripherals.

Niall Dunican of Audio Partnership commented “The new XS1-S devices from XMOS provide us with a lot of exciting opportunities. The integrated ADC and high speed USB let us use the devices as both a flexible micro and a high speed audio interface device, at low cost. We’re already planning to deliver 4 products in 2012 based on the new XMOS processors. With 700MIPS of deterministic performance we have a lot of ideas!”

XMOS processors combine flexible interfacing, control and data processing in a single device. The devices, including all digital peripherals, are programmed in software using a C-language development flow, providing both application and I/O flexibility even after deployment.

Pricing and Availability

The single XCore processor XS1-SU1 with integrated High-Speed USB Phy comes in a 96pin dual row BGA and is priced below $5 in 10ku quantities. Sampling now, the XS1-SU1 will be commercially available from Q2. The dual XCore XS1-SU2 device will be sampling from Q3 2012. Further details are available from your XMOS sales representative: http://www.xmos.com/products/distributors.

For more information on XMOS products including development kits and software, visit http://www.xmos.com. The XMOS development tools are available to download free of charge at http://www.xmos.com/tools.

About XMOS

XMOS is transforming the way in which electronic products are designed, reducing development time and cost. Its event-driven deterministic processors enable systems to combine application software, digital signal processing and peripherals implemented in software, not silicon. XMOS customers include leading companies around the world. For more information please visit http://www.xmos.com

http://eecatalog.com/usb/2012/03/19/xmos-simplifies-high-speed-usb-audio-design/

[jaokim]

No, all Xena memory is internal to the chip, and the only way in is through I/O of some sort.. JTAG is for loading code or debugging, localbus is normally for communication between AmigaOS and Xena tasks..but the I/O is so damned fast that the best way to get high bandwidth in and out is by using chip I/O.

If I don't want to have any extra hardware connected to my X1000, how can I make use of Xena?

Assume I create a simple Xena/XC program (using XTools on Mac/PC) that, for instance, flips all bits of some data. Would it be possible for me to, from AmigaOS, send the bits "000111" and then get "111000" back?

I've looked at the examples from wiki.amigaos.net, but they both require some extra hardware. What I basically want is some simple data processor that sits and wait for data to process, and then returns it. I understand that the power of Xena is when using it with custom hardware, but the step to wiring your own hardware is a bit steep for me -- and I really don't know what kind of hardware I want/need.

Oh, and while I'm at it: how do I transfer programs to Xena, and how do I start it? I kind of get that it might be a stupid question , but I really don't know where to start; it should be possible from AmigaOS, right?

[amigadave]

If I don't want to have any extra hardware connected to my X1000, how can I make use of Xena?

Assume I create a simple Xena/XC program (using XTools on Mac/PC) that, for instance, flips all bits of some data. Would it be possible for me to, from AmigaOS, send the bits "000111" and then get "111000" back?

I've looked at the examples from wiki.amigaos.net, but they both require some extra hardware. What I basically want is some simple data processor that sits and wait for data to process, and then returns it. I understand that the power of Xena is when using it with custom hardware, but the step to wiring your own hardware is a bit steep for me -- and I really don't know what kind of hardware I want/need.

Oh, and while I'm at it: how do I transfer programs to Xena, and how do I start it? I kind of get that it might be a stupid question , but I really don't know where to start; it should be possible from AmigaOS, right?

I don't see why what you want can't be created to run on the Xena chip, without needing extra external hardware wired to it, but then I am not knowledgeable enough about Xena/Xorro yet.  I think most or all of your answers have already been written in what Lyle has posted in this thread, so you might want to go back and read his posts carefully.

Until some AmigaOS4.x developer thinks up a project that needs the kinds of features that the Xena chip and/or Xorro interface provide, the ideas will more likely come from the XMOS forums where PC or Mac developers are sharing their projects and ideas on how to best use any of the XMOS chips.

The learning curve and lower availability of tools that can be used from within AmigaOS4.x currently, cause a delay in Xena/Xorro projects coming from traditional Amiga developers, or electrical engineers.  Specially when only a few Amiga developers and/or electrical engineers have purchased an X1000.  So, it may take more time before someone comes up with an interesting idea and project that uses the Xena/Xorro combination.  I know I will be watching the XMOS forums to see what people on other platforms are doing with their XMOS chips, as a way of educating myself about what can be done with those chips.

I have confidence that Amiga developers & programmers & electrical engineers are more creative and capable than average Windows, or Mac users, so I won't be surprised when some great project, or product becomes available that depends on the Xena/Xorro combination.  But I won't just be waiting for someone else to create something, I will be educating myself and thinking up my own ideas on how to use my X1000 w/Xena/Xorro.

[LyleHaze]

If I don't want to have any extra hardware connected to my X1000, how can I make use of Xena?

Assume I create a simple Xena/XC program (using XTools on Mac/PC) that, for instance, flips all bits of some data. Would it be possible for me to, from AmigaOS, send the bits "000111" and then get "111000" back?

Yes, but it's not quite getting the best of the Xena chip.

First, "XTools" are the AmigaOS tools, "xTIMEcomposer" is the name of their developers kit.

For output from Xena, there are two LEDs on the Nemo board, and another one or two on the Xorro card. But I've heard it too many times, nobody wants to flash LEDs. *

There is also the localbus connection. This is used to write or read 16 bit Words to and from Xena. Each write or read has a large bank of addresses to choose from, which the Xena chip may use to interpret different meanings.. much like ports in networking.
In real hardware it's all going in and out from the same places on Xena side, but the address used may indicate to Xena the purpose of the communication. There is not an established standard protocol for this yet, just the hardware support.

The localbus interface has been improved in the Cyrus board, and as soon as I get a chance I'll work out localbus routines that take full advantage of the improvements in a backwards compatible manner.

Other than that, there is a single bit from Xena to a GPIO of the PA6T, this is intended as an interrupt, and I discourage using it for anbything else. THere is also one "extra" bit going back to the PLD, but I have no idea how to access that, or what effect it might have on the system

In my own opinion, Xenas greatest strength is the ability to stream data very quickly. The localbus interface is not the place for that to happen. I see the localbus mostly as a port for control and feedback from the various processes.

But there is public code for various encryption standards at the XMOS GIT hub. instead of flipping bits you could do sometrhing a bit more useful there.

Oh, and while I'm at it: how do I transfer programs to Xena, and how do I start it? I kind of get that it might be a stupid question , but I really don't know where to start; it should be possible from AmigaOS, right?

There are a set of XTools for that.
Usually located in Sys:Utilities/Xena/XTools, these command line tools can be used to push code to the Xena chip (xrunxe), or to reset the chip (xreset) or quite a few different views of internal registers. One thing I watch is the program counter of any individual thread.. when this stops moving you can bet that the thread is holding for incoming our outgoing data.. as all channels are blocking by nature.
These tools have been updated a few times, and will be a few more in the near future. Only the very first version released were "wrong".. they did not set the PLL correctly, and as a result the Xena chip ran considerably slower than expected.

The example code you saw does include both the Xena and the AmigaOS sides of the localbus code.. I'm sure you could figure it out after a quick reading.
You should expect the localbus code to be extended to take advantage of the Cyrus improvements at some future time.

*note
Even though flashing LEDs is boring,  with the exceptional speed of Xena I/O, it would be a simple modification to dim LEDs instead.. Simple to do and requires no hardware. Could use localbus to deliver change requests..
Yes, still simple, but it starts with what we have available now, and expands on it gently, which is not a bad way to learn a new language.

And later, with a few constant-current drivers, you could begin to animate your case..

** for the case modders, there is a VERY simple mod available right now that could be fun to play with.. this is NOT Xena related, but (assuming the standard case) you can move the power LED from it's usual header to P31..

With that done, it will light up automatically every power up.. but it is then under command of any program or script you want.. So if you can detect inbox activity, you could make your power LED flash.. or whatever..
It's a very simple hardware link that can be reached easily from any program, but using the executables in Nemo_LED_P31.lha, from OS4Depot.

[jaokim]

In my own opinion, Xenas greatest strength is the ability to stream data very quickly.

Ok. Thanks for answers (I realise you have answered many of them before).

This fast streaming, how can that be utilised by AmigaOS? Do you need some custom hardware for that?
I'm thinking something like: AmigaOS reads data from hard drive, puts the data at some place, and then Xena reads this, performs some processing and puts it back where AmigaOS can read it -- perhaps with some localbus communication (but I'm thinking that Xena should be able to do the processing in realtime, with AmigaOS only needing to wait a constant number of ticks.)
Do you need like a simple Xorro-card that connects the Xorro-port to Xena's data ports to accomplish this?

[LyleHaze]

Data processing projects will get the highest throughput if they stream in and out of the Xena chip directly, and use the localbus for control and monitor purposes.

The scenario you described would be pushing all data from Amiga to Xena through the localbus, and getting the results baxck the same way, so not ideal at all.

A few examples of what might work well:

I am working on a data logger that monitors the Debug output stream, and saves the data to an SD Card ON THE XORRO BOARD. After a crash/reboot, or any time really, you can get a directory listing of the files on the SD Card, and retrieve them into Amiga through the localbus. While not a "stellar" example, it removes the need for a second computer to catch the debug stream, and allows at least basic retrieval of log files.

Another good example would be an audio mixer/effects unit.. The Xena chip has no analog inputs or outputs, so those would have to be added to the Xorro card.. OR you could add a couple S/PDIF inputs, and one or more S/PDIF outputs, and do all mixing and effects completely in the digital domain. Note that the "high bandwidth" stuff in both of these are happening directly with the Xena chip, and the Localbus provides monitor and control features.

Another very simple, but fun and useful project would be to write support for recording and playback of Pronto remote control files.. this would make Xena into a learning remote control. Granted the bandwidth is low, usually 40 Khz, but the timing is easily accomplished, and can be easily driven to one or many IR outputs. The entire graphics half of the Pronto files could be adapted into windows and gadgets, so we could import the look and feel of these remotes as well as the function.
Again, the Xena is used for timing critical stuff, and the localbus provides control and monitoring of the chip.

Someone once mentioned making a floppy controller.. it's way over my head, but It would probably be a good project for the author/designer of Catweasel..

The idea of making motor controllers, either servo or stepping, again makes good use of the very fast timing abilities of the chip.

It also occurred to me that distance reading by Sonar, using the old Polaroid ultrasonic transducers for instance, rely on the ability to time events down to a very tight tolerance. The more accurate your timing is, the more better results you get. This would be a perfect match for the Xena chip.. It could not only do it very well, but it can do multiple channels at the same time.. though eliminating crosstalk might be a problem.
Still, it leverages the high speed and accuracy of the XMOS I/O systems to your advantage.

These are just a few examples.. I'm certainly not the most creative person in this community. I look forward to seeing what projects people come up with.

[amigadave]

Reading this thread makes me want to go back to school, so I can learn more about computer electronics, as well as computer programming.  Even though I am too old to put such schooling to good use as a job, I could still use it for my own personal projects, and perhaps think up one or two that other X1000 owners (and future X5000 owners as well) might find interesting or useful.

Maybe I can test the old saying about teaching old dogs new tricks (meaning myself).

@LyleHaze,

I like the idea of using the Xena/Xorro combination for audio projects, as well as your Data Logger, and possibly a floppy controller that would make standard PC floppy drives compatible with both original Amiga floppy formats, and dozens of other floppy formats from other platforms, so almost any floppy disk could be read from our X1000's.  Being able to use our old 9pin Amiga joysticks with instant response, would also be desirable, as well as adapters for some of the most popular console controllers, that younger users prefer to use instead of a joystick.  For me, using the old Atari/Amiga style joysticks is the most fun way to play computer games, but I suppose they could be improved to include more control buttons, to make them more like a console controller.  Seems to me that a joystick port using the Xena/Xorro combination should probably be a very easy project to complete, but not a very efficient use of the capabilities of Xena/Xorro, so would be best if it were only one part of a combined project that used the rest of the available threads of the XMOS chip for other tasks.

[TrevorDick]

Reading this thread makes me want to go back to school, so I can learn more about computer electronics, as well as computer programming.

+1

Thank goodness we got developers like Lyle and others. :-)

TrevorD

[James2002]

I though it was interesting that Trevor put Xena/Xorro in Amiga one X 1000. Maybe in future someone will make something very useful.
 
 @amigadave Look up learn code the hard way. The guy that does that is a teacher. If you want to learn c you need to learn python or ruby. Next month I am going to buy his python course. I will try it and let you know if it worth it. If you can hand solder it wont be that bad learning the electronic part.

[danbeaver]

I don't know about starting with the C programming language; my first computer course in 1974 started with machine language (assembly) and moved up the chain through high school, college, and grad school.  In fact with my first Commodore , "learning" BASIC was a bit of a back step due to the lack of structure, so even there post grad school in 1982 assembly was my main language.

[jaokim]

Hmm. The Xorro project board seem to have PCIe x1 slot, besides the Xorro port. I'm assuming this could then be used to transfer data from AmigaOS to the Xorro board; given one has it correctly wired, and configured, and necessary drivers on AmigaOS.
Don't get me wrong here, but if one only has the localbus to communicate with Xena, it seems we might as well only have had an external Xmos startkit, with the proper drivers and tools on AmigaOS of course. I've browsed through some projects at xcore.com, and some seem rather cool. But what I'd really like to see is something that only AmigaOS and the Xorro/Xena combination could pull off, where AmigaOS has an integral role.

Might actually buy that project board, if only for a few blinking led's.

[LyleHaze]

Hmm. The Xorro project board seem to have PCIe x1 slot, besides the Xorro port. I'm assuming this could then be used to transfer data from AmigaOS to the Xorro board; given one has it correctly wired, and configured, and necessary drivers on AmigaOS.

Sure, if you have the knowledge to design and build a PCIe interface, then write AmigaOS drivers for it.. Should be a walk in the the park!:rofl:
Seriously though, building a PCIe interface might be dead easy, I have no idea.

If you were to go that far, look into the hardware specs for an XMOS 5-wire link. This is a ridiculously fast path in and out of the chip. If you can master that, and tie it to PCIe, while the rest of the XMOS community is limited to JTAG over USB. well, that would really put a tilt on the playing field. But while I know _OF_ 5 wire and 2 wire links from a software side, I have no clue what hardware would be needed to support them.. there are lots of XMOS tech reference manuals available though.

Don't get me wrong here, but if one only has the localbus to communicate with Xena, it seems we might as well only have had an external Xmos startkit, with the proper drivers and tools on AmigaOS of course. I've browsed through some projects at xcore.com, and some seem rather cool. But what I'd really like to see is something that only AmigaOS and the Xorro/Xena combination could pull off, where AmigaOS has an integral role.

Might actually buy that project board, if only for a few blinking led's.

The XMOS startkit is only usable from xTIMEcomposer, which has no PPC support and likely never will. If we want cool toys, we'll have to blaze our own trail.

Fun Talk, I'm out for the day.

[persia]

The XMOS startkit is only usable from xTIMEcomposer, which has no PPC support and likely never will. If we want cool toys, we'll have to blaze our own trail.

Fun Talk, I'm out for the day.

Or use the fun toys on supported systems.....