Comparing Apples and Amigas

[Yasu]

I use the OS I think is fun! Why the hell do I need to justify this?

[kamelito]

When BeOS personnal edition was put online it got half million download.
it was free it was x86.
http://boards.fool.com/half-million-downloads-12343950.aspx
The day Be wanted to make an internet appliance out of BeOS they killed it.

Kamelito

[Fats]

A unified API? I believe not. For that the systems are already too different. And all camps have too big EGOs. And all platforms have developed in different directions.

I hope you are not talking about AROS. AROS is open source and free for everybody to use wherever he wants including on MOS or AmigaOS4.

[OlafS3]

I hope you are not talking about AROS. AROS is open source and free for everybody to use wherever he wants including on MOS or AmigaOS4.

What AROS devs drop something they have invented in favor of a unified API? That is what I mean

I had an argument with one of the AROS devs because I said Wanderer is not important anymore because a more modern Desktop (Magellan) is there. I was told I would threaten AROS because I use it as "container for Amiga software".

Or others who wanted to take part told me that to all their ideas answer was "No". Stubborness is common for all camps today. Personally I do the best from the situation right now and found my niche.

[Boot_WB]

I'm not saying anything is any better. I have a 3000 coming Tuesday after all - I intend to get it online and working as a hobby desktop. I was merely pointing out why its nothing more than a hobbyist OS currently and why people thinking its anywhere ready for a general use OS are more than a little short-sighted.

I don't think there are many people left expecting one more utility to turn AmigaOS/MorphOS/AROS into the next big desktop OS. Most people are happy with what they have, and welcome improvements to that.

However, I would ask you to consider as an example the OS included with the PS3 - is that ready for general use?
It has no multitasking, supports fewer filesystems, less hardware, fewer media containers/codecs, has crappier networking, no CLI at all, and can barely be customised to the user's taste.

Of course no-one would consider using it as a desktop OS, and most people use it as a way to choose what media to consume (Game, local media, streamed media), but it is in 'general use' nevertheless.

[Fats]

I had an argument with one of the AROS devs because I said Wanderer is not important anymore because a more modern Desktop (Magellan) is there. I was told I would threaten AROS because I use it as "container for Amiga software".

Being open means understanding that other people may have other ideas/whishes. Why not let Wanderer there for people who like it and Magellan for other ones ? Everyone who claims X in not needed because Y exist is being elitist IMO.

[wawrzon]

@fats, olaf

please dont quarrel at least on aros. the situation came up since wanderer isnt very usable in a current state for just a few reasons, in particular it slowness, decoration issues, truncating names by default, broken snapshotting icons and messed up listing by names. scalos and magellan would be a good interim solution. for me the best would be to have option for updated wanderer as soon as kalamatee is done with it, magellan and scalos. neither should the native solution be given up nor the alternatives refused.

[agami]

@A6000
You are either deliberately 'setting the cat amongst the pidgins', or you are truly that oblivious as to the monumental differences between the two stories.

If Apple went bankrupt in the mid '90s, as they were going to, today's Apple community would be in no better situation as Power Computing, Motorola, DayStar, UMAX, and others squabbled over the Apple 'corpse'. They would not come together in an unified way and each would have their own strategy for business growth in what would have been a declining  Mac user base. They would each have a different interpretation of what Apple is and what a Macintosh is.

And it's one thing if you were genuinely asking to find out what the difference is, but you post here "dumbfounded" as to why hasn't the Amiga stayed unified this whole time?

There are plenty of Wikipedia pages that explain both stories in detail. I suggest you start there.

[mikeymike]

On PC you have windows dominating the market

I'm not sure this has any relevance at all - should Apple have adopted the same logic?

Post Commodore, Amigas did not embrace PPC to "take on Apple".  Apple made a decision to move to a platform that performs better all-round (x86/x64), not to "take on Windows" (if they had made the decision for that reason, it would be regarded as a failure as their desktop/laptop market share is still something like <10%).

As I understand it (but I can't find a corroborating source for this), the only reason that Apple didn't make that decision sooner was that Steve Jobs fell out with Intel because they wouldn't give him the good deal he was looking for.

If Commodore had survived and made the move to PPC (or whichever hardware platform), the majority of the community would have gone along with it as long as the OS was basically still there.  Those who didn't want to go along with it would have found another platform (or perhaps there would have been an effort to create something 'Amiga-like' while trying to avoid the wrath of Commodore).  Considering I still have a soft spot for my Amiga-using roots, I'm pretty sure that if Commodore was still around today and had produced something with an Amiga-ish that wasn't a complete joke, it would very likely be sitting alongside my PC right now.

[OlafS3]

I'm not sure this has any relevance at all - should Apple have adopted the same logic?

Post Commodore, Amigas did not embrace PPC to "take on Apple".  Apple made a decision to move to a platform that performs better all-round (x86/x64), not to "take on Windows" (if they had made the decision for that reason, it would be regarded as a failure as their desktop/laptop market share is still something like <10%).

As I understand it (but I can't find a corroborating source for this), the only reason that Apple didn't make that decision sooner was that Steve Jobs fell out with Intel because they wouldn't give him the good deal he was looking for.

If Commodore had survived and made the move to PPC (or whichever hardware platform), the majority of the community would have gone along with it as long as the OS was basically still there.  Those who didn't want to go along with it would have found another platform (or perhaps there would have been an effort to create something 'Amiga-like' while trying to avoid the wrath of Commodore).  Considering I still have a soft spot for my Amiga-using roots, I'm pretty sure that if Commodore was still around today and had produced something with an Amiga-ish that wasn't a complete joke, it would very likely be sitting alongside my PC right now.

my long post has vanished

Short version:
if Commodore would have survived there would be only a split between parts of the 68k community (who would not have followed the route) and one official NG OS based on total different hardware (no custom chips f.e.). Regarding the topic common API, because of different reasons (emotional, technical, decisions that are already done) I do not see any chance now, only "if" one of the camps becomes so successful that others are forced to follow. And successful means winning users outside the community. As long as it stays like right now nothing will change and there is no pressure on the core devs either.

[ElPolloDiabl]

Is there any chance OS4 could ported back to 68k? I'd like to have it, but not for a PowerPC machine.

[KimmoK]

Is there any chance OS4 could ported back to 68k? I'd like to have it, but not for a PowerPC machine.

From my experience, the 68k should be running at higher than 600mhz for AOS4 to be nice to use, there is no such 68k.
(so, running in 68k emulator on x86 would then be only use case for AOS4 on 68k)

[KimmoK]

Because Mac users have a superiority complex and are rude as heck on most forums. ...

I recently posted info about PPC desktop continuation via AOS4/MorphOS to some forum discussing about PPC desktops, the whole (weeks earlier started) thread was deleted in matter of minutes. Friendly bunch!

[TeamBlackFox]

I recently posted info about PPC desktop continuation via AOS4/MorphOS to some forum discussing about PPC desktops, the whole (weeks earlier started) thread was deleted in matter of minutes. Friendly bunch!

They're terrible to UNIX users too. They're just jealous their POS OS is a clone of UNIX under Mach.

[Sean Cunningham]

No, no there's no hypocrites around here.

[WolfToTheMoon]

As I understand it (but I can't find a corroborating source for this), the only reason that Apple didn't make that decision sooner was that Steve Jobs fell out with Intel because they wouldn't give him the good deal he was looking for.

Steve Jobs was not running Apple when they went PPC.

John Sculley did. And he says it was his biggest mistake.

When Jobs arrived back in Apple in 97', he pretty soon became dissatisfied with Motorola(and Motorola was pissed of when Jobs killed of the clones market)  and PPC and started making plans on switching to Intel.