Comparing Apples and Amigas

[OlafS3]

Is 68k emulation on NG Amigas good enough to create a virtual 68k platform that is compatible with classic machines to the extent of running classic software, only faster?
Is it possible that the various APIs can evolve into a unified API across all Amigas or are we stuck with systems that will never be compatible.

A unified API? I believe not. For that the systems are already too different. And all camps have too big EGOs. And all platforms have developed in different directions.

[OlafS3]

IMO it came down to one thing-they all wanted to make the biggest buck...and it started with Amiga International not wanting to pay what 3rd parties wanted to paid for having their software included in OS 3.5- MUI I believe was the first choice GUI, but deemed too expensive by Amiga Tech, so we got Reaction (a tarted up Class Act).  The included TCP stack apparantly wasn't paid as agreed, but included anyway.  

Then H&P claimed they didn't get paid in full for OS 3.9 so that was another dispute.

phase5 were the only ones that actually got a PPC working on the Amiga, and wanted control of both the hardware and the software.  To me it looked like H&P saw it as a Microsoft opportunity-bugger the hardware, its the software that matters and they wanted to be the ones to control the PPC OS.  Hence the first split on the ppc market.

If they actually worked together and pooled their resources then things may have been better-but in the end it was all about MONEY and GREED.  I wonder if any of them have actually made anywhere near enough money to at least cover their time.  I doubt it.

It seems that Phase 5 and H&P hated each other. I have read about Prodad trying to make a new modern GUI and tried to convince the others to support it. If all parties involved had really worked together the chances would have been better. The only chance would have been to agree on one standardized platform, but there we are at the big EGOs again.

[stefcep2]

Wonder what happened to the people behind H&P and phase5?

{edit} form the H&P website:

 "These days, no company can survive without cooperation. During the last 15 years in business--and especially since we formed this company--we have strived for, and fostered significant cooperation and partnerships with both companies and individuals"

Hmmm

[Plaz]

Commodore had money troubles

And management caused the money problems by burning millions on their failed PC clone projects while they left Amiga development to starve. I've pondered how might it have all worked out differently if only....

I had to support their Colts for a couple of years. Poor DOS compatibility killed them, and their price didn't make them too attractive to start with. I had a couple of customers that were convinced their machines had been virus infected. Nope. And I spent most of a day proving to them DOS version compatibility issues. It's not hard to figure out what eventually happened to their Colt sales. And not to just pick on Commodore, AT&T clones suffered the same type problems and eventual fate.

Plaz

[TeamBlackFox]

Because Mac users have a superiority complex and are rude as heck on most forums.

I try to get along with those using other hardware or variants but it seems some people see that I use UNIX and automatically discredit what I say as heresy. That's neither fair nor makes a good representation on the community. I think we need to remember that the everything we say is totally public and that a ton of users may be offended by our petty disagreements. Nobody wants that now do they?

[OlafS3]

Because Mac users have a superiority complex and are rude as heck on most forums.

I try to get along with those using other hardware or variants but it seems some people see that I use UNIX and automatically discredit what I say as heresy. That's neither fair nor makes a good representation on the community. I think we need to remember that the everything we say is totally public and that a ton of users may be offended by our petty disagreements. Nobody wants that now do they?

You can take a look at aeros:
http://www.aeros-os.org/

It is combining both Linux and AROS and could go in your direction. People here use a lot of different OSs for everyday use and work and nobody (or almost nobody) hates your preferred choice. But this here is a Amiga forum and I do not see how both are connected.

[TeamBlackFox]

It is combining both Linux and AROS and could go in your direction. People here use a lot of different OSs for everyday use and work and nobody (or almost nobody) hates your preferred choice. But this here is a Amiga forum and I do not see how both are connected.

Thanks for the info but I'd rather just stick with BSD, GNU/Linux does not meet my standards for usage and adding stuff on top doesn't really change that. I use FreeBSD and IRIX as my daily driver while tracking DragonFly BSD, once DragonFly BSD is ready for desktop use I'll switch to that.

And look at my other thread - it seems that infosec is either not appreciated by some members of the community or they're so dense that because I'm a UNIX user I'm somehow a traitor.

[OlafS3]

Thanks for the info but I'd rather just stick with BSD, GNU/Linux does not meet my standards for usage and adding stuff on top doesn't really change that. I use FreeBSD and IRIX as my daily driver while tracking DragonFly BSD, once DragonFly BSD is ready for desktop use I'll switch to that.

And look at my other thread - it seems that infosec is either not appreciated by some members of the community or they're so dense that because I'm a UNIX user I'm somehow a traitor.

It is a little difficult to understand (and explain) when you do not know what happened in the recent past. There were a couple of times (in this case) Linux supporter trying to sell their distribution as "Amiga" to the people so some are perhaps a little too sensible on that.

[TeamBlackFox]

It is a little difficult to understand (and explain) when you do not know what happened in the recent past. There were a couple of times (in this case) Linux supporter trying to sell their distribution as "Amiga" to the people so some are perhaps a little too sensible on that.

I see. I guess I gotta earn the trust by showing that I'm not out for money ( I have a great job as a datacenter tech currently ) And that I'm not interested in pushing BSD or System V as Amiga - thats not the case at all. I'm just a UNIX user who doesn't want Amiga users to think GNU/Linux is the only option out there for a more practical OS.

[OlafS3]

I see. I guess I gotta earn the trust by showing that I'm not out for money ( I have a great job as a datacenter tech currently ) And that I'm not interested in pushing BSD or System V as Amiga - thats not the case at all. I'm just a UNIX user who doesn't want Amiga users to think GNU/Linux is the only option out there for a more practical OS.

I see...

then you should make a thread on "other operating systems" and not compare it with Amiga (any variant) and say "xyz is better". On that people react a little sensible. Better stay here on amiga-related topics. We are aware of the shortcomings and tackling them already. There are a lot of interesting things you can do (even without multi-user support and memory protection). Or (when f.e. ARIX is officially there supporting SMP) than it is interesting to discuss about concepts and ideas but not in a negative way.

[ppcamiga1]

It's simple.  
 
Too many idiots in Amiga community try to fight with powerpc.  
 
This jihad against powerpc is the main reason why amiga now is where Apple was in 1999.  
 
68k is too slow, x86 is useless because it does not allow for easy integration with the old 68k Software.  
 
Apple succeeded move to x86, because Jobs was smart enough to first make the transition to Unix on powerpc, then transitions to other other processors.  
 
Too many stupid people in the Amiga community wants to skip this necessary step to x86.  
 
Thats why on Amiga after all these years we still have something like Mac OS 9, and we never will have anything like Mac OS X.

[TeamBlackFox]

I see...

then you should make a thread on "other operating systems" and not compare it with Amiga (any variant) and say "xyz is better". On that people react a little sensible. Better stay here on amiga-related topics. We are aware of the shortcomings and tackling them already. There are a lot of interesting things you can do (even without multi-user support and memory protection).

I'm not saying anything is any better. I have a 3000 coming Tuesday after all - I intend to get it online and working as a hobby desktop. I was merely pointing out why its nothing more than a hobbyist OS currently and why people thinking its anywhere ready for a general use OS are more than a little short-sighted.

If it makes you feel any better, IRIX is in the same boat. The only way that will survive is if SGI/Rackable decide to release the source. And from the looks of it thats at least going to be awhile.

[OlafS3]

It's simple.  
 
Too many idiots in Amiga community try to fight with powerpc.  
 
This jihad against powerpc is the main reason why amiga now is where Apple was in 1999.  
 
68k is too slow, x86 is useless because it does not allow for easy integration with the old 68k Software.  
 
Apple succeeded move to x86, because Jobs was smart enough to first make the transition to Unix on powerpc, then transitions to other other processors.  
 
Too many stupid people in the Amiga community wants to skip this necessary step to x86.  
 
Thats why on Amiga after all these years we still have something like Mac OS 9, and we never will have anything like Mac OS X.

What would be different when we would all use PPC? Nothing in my view. Apple would still have dropped PPC. The situation would not be better.

[TeamBlackFox]

It's simple.  
 
Too many idiots in Amiga community try to fight with powerpc.  
 
This jihad against powerpc is the main reason why amiga now is where Apple was in 1999.  
 
68k is too slow, x86 is useless because it does not allow for easy integration with the old 68k Software.  
 
Apple succeeded move to x86, because Jobs was smart enough to first make the transition to Unix on powerpc, then transitions to other other processors.  
 
Too many stupid people in the Amiga community wants to skip this necessary step to x86.  
 
Thats why on Amiga after all these years we still have something like Mac OS 9, and we never will have anything like Mac OS X.

Good points. We're about 15-20 years late to the PowerPC train. I think acting like Hachiko for the old hardware is honourable, if more than a bit naiive.

[OlafS3]

I'm not saying anything is any better. I have a 3000 coming Tuesday after all - I intend to get it online and working as a hobby desktop. I was merely pointing out why its nothing more than a hobbyist OS currently and why people thinking its anywhere ready for a general use OS are more than a little short-sighted.

If it makes you feel any better, IRIX is in the same boat. The only way that will survive is if SGI/Rackable decide to release the source. And from the looks of it thats at least going to be awhile.

Some dream of using MorphOS or AmigaOS (or AROS) for everyday use and perhaps (to a certain degree) it is possible. It depends where and for what you use it. None of the variants is ready to be used as desktop at work (and I do not think that there are chances to change this). Aeros is combing Aros and Linux apps to add missing software. Generally it is a hobby OS (the same for all).

[Yasu]

I use the OS I think is fun! Why the hell do I need to justify this?