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Author Topic: Surface 3 - New direction, higher prices and crappy i3  (Read 50893 times)

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Offline SysAdminTopic starter

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Re: Surface 3 - New direction, higher prices aimed at corperate customers and crappy
« Reply #149 from previous page: June 03, 2014, 01:19:20 AM »
@ Trev

FYI

Adding a pressure sensitive pen to the iPad is $80-100 and it has more pressure levels then the pen included with Surface Pro 3. Even Surface Pro 2 has more pressure levels than 3.
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Offline Trev

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As much as I like them--and I do--iPads are still just iPads. If they were actual desktop replacements running Mac OS X, I'd view them differently. Being able to do "everything" on a Surface Pro is a big draw. (I'm still going to game on my PC and consoles, but I'm sure you get my meaning.)
 

Offline persia

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You didn't watch today's WWDC Keynote.  iPhones, iPads, Macs are all extensions of the same thing.  It's an information ecosystem that shares everything within it.  If you are at all interested in Apple watch the Keynote, the vision is back.  

Quote from: Trev;765595
As much as I like them--and I do--iPads are still just iPads. If they were actual desktop replacements running Mac OS X, I'd view them differently. Being able to do "everything" on a Surface Pro is a big draw. (I'm still going to game on my PC and consoles, but I'm sure you get my meaning.)
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Offline Trev

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I'm typing this on my iPhone, but let me know when I can run Xcode on it. ;-)
 

Offline SysAdminTopic starter

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Quote from: Trev;765607
I'm typing this on my iPhone, but let me know when I can run Xcode on it. ;-)

This 27 inch iPad will run Xcode fine for you.

:)


http://www.cnet.com/products/apple-imac-2013/

Don't forget the Track pad for an authentic experience.

https://www.apple.com/magictrackpad/
« Last Edit: June 03, 2014, 05:32:51 AM by SysAdmin »
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Offline Duce

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Quote from: persia;765602
You didn't watch today's WWDC Keynote.  iPhones, iPads, Macs are all extensions of the same thing.  It's an information ecosystem that shares everything within it.  If you are at all interested in Apple watch the Keynote, the vision is back.


I watched the keynote, and all I saw was Apple attempting to drag people even further into their walled garden ecosystem.  An ecosystem it's already hard to get out of.  I don't trust Apple any more than I do any other company with their clouds, I guess.  I say this as an owner and user of Apple products.

I also see them trying to do to OS X what they have done to iOS, the "appification" of everything.  Nothing new, really.

I remember when WWDC was a highly anticipated event that was sure to bring some real innovations.  The highlight of WWDC this year was Swift, the rest was just rehash and slight evolution, or making things functional that should have been better long ago (Mail).
 

Offline bloodline

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Quote from: Duce;765612
The highlight of WWDC this year was Swift


Really? I'm seeing plenty of people popping up saying how Swift was the best thing at the WWDC... But having just spent the night reading the programming guide, I'm have serious issues with the syntax and concepts. It feels like "Pascal#" and I hated pascal.

In my mind, I can't see why developers will bother with it, as ling as C/C++/ Obj-C exist... There isn't a compelling reason to move to this ugly and opaque language.

Perhaps I'm just too old now and stuck on the C syntax too much...

Offline psxphill

Quote from: Trev;765595
As much as I like them--and I do--iPads are still just iPads. If they were actual desktop replacements running Mac OS X, I'd view them differently. Being able to do "everything" on a Surface Pro is a big draw. (I'm still going to game on my PC and consoles, but I'm sure you get my meaning.)

 
Quote from: persia;765602
You didn't watch today's WWDC Keynote. iPhones, iPads, Macs are all extensions of the same thing. It's an information ecosystem that shares everything within it. If you are at all interested in Apple watch the Keynote, the vision is back.

Being an extension of the same thing isn't the same as being able to run everything. It's exactly the same problem as you can run applications for Windows RT on a Windows 8.1 desktop, but you can't run a desktop app on Windows RT.
 
The vision might be back, but it's the same as Microsofts old vision that "everyone" hated. I expect that because it's Apple and not Microsoft people will like the idea though.
 

Offline tone007

Re: Surface 3 - New direction, higher prices and crappy i3
« Reply #157 on: June 03, 2014, 09:20:38 PM »
A couple of years ago I took Dell up on a deal for a $199 low-spec x86 tablet (Atom, 2GB/32GB) with Windows 7 installed; a Latitude ST. I knew Windows 7 wasn't a tablet-friendly OS, so I proceeded to install Windows 8 on it which improved the performance and usability quite a bit. The tablet (along with a docking station, monitor, keyboard and mouse) replaced my desktop PC at work.  I used it for roughly 6 months before deciding the Atom CPU wasn't fast enough (couldn't full-screen YouTube videos without choppiness.) For most work purposes, however, it was fine.  I'm sure if it had been an i3 I would've been able to stick with it as a primary (as well as super portable) work machine.  As many Android devices as I've had, I'm still aware there is no replacement for full PC capability, which is also why Windows RT seemed fairly pointless to me.

Maybe this year Dell will offer me an i3 tablet for not too much more and I can try again.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2014, 09:24:27 PM by tone007 »
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Offline psxphill

Re: Surface 3 - New direction, higher prices and crappy i3
« Reply #158 on: June 03, 2014, 10:10:34 PM »
Quote from: tone007;765650
For most work purposes, however, it was fine. I'm sure if it had been an i3 I would've been able to stick with it as a primary (as well as super portable) work machine.

There are faster atom's than what was in the latitude st now. But if you want an i3 then they do this for $799.99 or they do an atom one for $429.99 with less disk space
 
http://www.dell.com/us/p/dell-venue-11i-pro/pd?oc=ftcwe04h&model_id=dell-venue-11i-pro
 
The Venue 8 pro is atom only but starts at a better $249.99 and the Venue 7 & 8 are arm and run android and start at $149.99
 
http://androidandme.com/2014/06/news/dells-affordable-venue-7-and-venue-8-tablets-announced-at-computex/
 

Offline SysAdminTopic starter

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@psxphill

The difference is Apple never promised you could run Mac applications on the iPad. Also the iPad has more applications than Mac OS X! Microsoft created their own confusion promising the world and then delivering a half baked OS upgrade that does desktop and tablet but is not good at either. Confusing Frankien OS no thanks I'll stick with Windows 7. I skipped Vista too and am still happy about that.
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Offline persia

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Yes, the 8.1 Spring Update to Windows, which made the desktop experience tolerable really ruins the tablet experience.  The desktop so vital to the success of the desktop now sucks the life out of the tablet experience....  There's a reason Apple forked iOS off of OS X.

« Last Edit: June 04, 2014, 03:56:26 AM by persia »
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Offline Bif

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I just had another frustrating Windows 8.1 experience trying to help the wife with her computer tonight.

Print output was getting jumbled from an online Avery printing program. So to figure out where things are going wrong I saved the PDF file it created on its web server to the local drive, and opened it with whatever PDF file viewer/printer was installed to print it out instead of using the one embedded in the browser. There seemed to be one called "Reader" that I context opened the PDF with. It turns out this is a "Metro" app. So when I am done I go to close "Reader". Oh wait, I remember I can't easily figure out how to close a Metro app. I guess they just close themselves after not being used for a while like all tablet OS's do? I really don't know, and I shouldn't have to figure out some strange incantation of how to close it, so I just switch back to the desktop view where I had opened the PDF from in Windows Explorer. So OK, I'll just delete the PDF now that I am done with it. "You can't delete this file, a program is using it" is what it gives me. Facepalm. Now this isn't a major problem, but it's just yet one more weird-ism encountered trying to use Windows 8.x. They sure add up in a hurry.

Now I admit, I didn't love Windows 3.11 because I was coming from an Amiga (and OS/2), so it just felt inferior. But I could get stuff done intuitively enough within its limitations, so it was kind of OK for what it was. I loved Windows 95. I've never really had a problem with 98/SE, ME, Vista, or 7. Sure I've run into the odd bugs, but what was ever completely perfect. You know, if I had to use a Surface, I might even be OK with that too, though I have never tried one - I just choose not to go there when I already live in very well supported Android land - which I had no problem figuring out how to use (or iOS either). I can use Linux well enough too without being baffled unless it is unsupported hardware. Hell, even the old Macs I used "made sense", even if I wasn't a fan. I could even say the same for DOS - it could be hard to use, but it made sense for what it was.

But I'm sorry, even the improved Windows 8.1 is a complete piece of #$%^ Jekyll and Hyde job. It's the merging of the new tile apps with the old system, they just don't get along at all and create all sorts of confusing scenarios. You will never convince me otherwise that it isn't anything but a horrible mistake.

I'm not convinced they will be able to fix it unless they simply drop one side or the other completely - it will be interesting to see what they do as either way there will be a ton of blow back. As much as I can't really stand Apple, they did the right thing keeping desktop and tablet completely separate.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2014, 08:56:22 AM by Bif »
 

Offline SysAdminTopic starter

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Quote from: Bif;765677
But I'm sorry, even the improved Windows 8.1 is a complete piece of #$%^ Jekyll and Hyde job. It's the merging of the new tile apps with the old system, they just don't get along at all and create all sorts of confusing scenarios. You will never convince me otherwise that it isn't anything but a horrible mistake.

Agreed, you hit the nail on the head to the problem they created for their customers and themselves.
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Offline ElPolloDiabl

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Re: Surface 3 - New direction, higher prices and crappy i3
« Reply #163 on: June 04, 2014, 12:10:59 PM »
Those lovely modern OSes you have to figure out if it is a tap, a slide, a tap twice.
To close an app Windows 8: Top left corner with the mouse and right click.
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Offline persia

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Re: Surface 3 - New direction, higher prices and crappy i3
« Reply #164 on: June 04, 2014, 12:27:20 PM »
A Windows 8 App runs full screen and just like a full screen app on OS X, moving the trackpad/mouse pointer to the top of the screen reveals a hidden bar that allows you to close it.  On OS X of course it also allows you to make it non-full screen, but maybe Windows 9 will add that....


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