X2000 or sue ... your comments

[spirantho]

The X1000 is a fully usable computer, the only beta drivers are not a problem because they provide add-in cards instead until the Beta drivers are complete.
3 production runs wouldn't happen on a broken business model. I only know of one person (Vox) unhappy with his x1000 out of over a hundred, and his reasoning is to do with os4, not the hardware.

[Kesa]

Don't forget that the profit generated would probably have been needed by Trevor to develop the X1000 and other projects he is doing. I like to think of it as a kind of Kickstarter project with people helping the funding of the projects development as it is being developed.

[Iggy]

Since when is being profitable enough to stay in business a sin?
And I doubt Trevor has recovered his development costs.
Designing and producing a motherboard is a highly complex endeavor.

[vox]

Since when is being profitable enough to stay in business a sin?
And I doubt Trevor has recovered his development costs.
Designing and producing a motherboard is a highly complex endeavor.

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=38544&forum=33&start=100&viewmode=flat&order=0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=op6-ov8SruM

Yes, I under same banner I wanted to help Trevor and I did my best.

Its Hyperion why InI decide to swap. And AmigaKit.

Sorry dudes, no court, good ways ... but they deserve at least public shame :angel:

[cgutjahr]

Feel free to correct any errors, but please do it by bringing new info to the table, and not by some pointless "TakeMeHomeGrandma isn't a reliable source of info"...

TakeMeHomeGrandma isn't a reliable source of info

[vox]

TakeMeHomeGrandma isn't a reliable source of info

Big rAspect to THM!

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=38544&forum=33&start=100&viewmode=flat&order=0

[Iggy]

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=38544&forum=33&start=100&viewmode=flat&order=0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=op6-ov8SruM

Yes, I under same banner I wanted to help Trevor and I did my best.

Its Hyperion why InI decide to swap. And AmigaKit.

Sorry dudes, no court, good ways ... but they deserve at least public shame :angel:

I too have some issues with Hyperion.
When I purchase an A2000, it won't be to run OS4.

And, TakeMeHomeGrandma IS a reliable source of info.

[utri007]

@ utri007

I wrote this on MZ and copy/pasting it here:



Feel free to correct any errors, but please do it by bringing new info to the table, and not by some pointless "TakeMeHomeGrandma isn't a reliable source of info"...

It seems that this was full of errors, what is current situation? And could you please admit that you are speculating?

[Tripitaka]

How the hell is anyone supposed to vote on a poll with no "Pancakes" option? This is total insanity!

[takemehomegrandma]

@ cgutjahr, utri007

TakeMeHomeGrandma isn't a reliable source of info

It seems that this was full of errors, what is current situation? And could you please admit that you are speculating?

Please read what I wrote once again before bringing out the tar and feathers, and pay attention to the context and points in timeline. It was all reasonable arguments based on the limited sources of info that existed, and not a statement that this would be solid facts, I asked you (or anyone else) to provide more/better info on the matter. And the fact is that the info on this is *still* very limited. And actually, it still seems it isn't *the* MUI4, it seems that *it is* an independent fork (as long as it isn't based on MorphOS sources), an "OS4-MUI4" which level of original compatibility is still unknown (although higher than first expected, and probably good enough for Odyssey porting, etc). Or do you want to bet *your* names to be "reliable sources of info" stating the opposite as *facts* (and not speculations, as you do now - speculating - but in "the other direction")?

If you release something like this, without *any kind* of formal communication on the matter, you create an information vacuum that is destined to nurture speculations. IMHO this was a deliberate move from the OS4 team lead. Either as a way to create headlines for their feature, or as a way to gloat and laugh at the resulting speculations they *knew* would follow. Just like you do now. It's like MorphOS and AROS suddenly would be released as "Amiga OS" (for the sake of discussion, registered trade marks aside), since they have OS 3.1 API compatibility and mimicked/re-implemented functionality, but still being a forked product from what was developed by the OS 3.1 authors. And with no further information communicated upon release, be sure that discussions and speculations would follow. You two would most certainly be "contributors" in that discussion.

Lack of communication has always been the Hyperion/OS4 way. I think it's deliberate. And this situation was no different.

The results is a given.

[Iggy]

I wouldn't back pedal too far grandma.
Outside of personal attacks and childish insults, the supporters haven't offered that much to support their assertions either.

[nicholas]

I wouldn't back pedal too far grandma.
Outside of personal attacks and childish insults, the supporters haven't offered that much to support their assertions either.

But it tehreeeeeel!!111!one! isn't a good enough logical counter argument anymore?

[takemehomegrandma]

A few other voices on the matter (that I happens to agree with or at least think has a point or a few) from elsewhere:

I'm almost certain that, three years from now, OS4 will make the jump onto old Macs and complete the mimicry. Well, they do say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...

OS4 is an OS founded and developed on a series of huge mistakes, driven by fanboy ideology. The first blunder they made was cheating out Amiga Inc - whom they should never have gotten involved with in the first place. Then there was trying to base the OS on original source, meaning a double-cycle and very long winded development that lost them most of their users while they waited for the first release.

ReAction was a minor blunder - a gui toolkit that proved so tricky to put anything together with, that most people simply didn't bother. But we remember why they made it - "MUI is buggy, bloated crap". The irony.

To just survive, they've had to get around their constant blunders the hard way. MorphOS made none of these problems to maim itself, and therefore OS4 can only follow years behind, a pale shadow crippled by the same people who made it.

What's next, dropping P96 for CGX? NSD for TD64? PPC for x86?

> I find the news about Hyperion releasing

Hyperion isn't releasing anything. This is Jens and Thore, the MUI 'fanboys' amongst the OS4 developers.

It probably got released like this ('Xmas update'), because nothing else was available. Got to keep the potential X2000 customers happy.

> I won't even bother touching legality here, that is for the MorphOS team and
> Stefan Stuntz to decide.

Good thing you mentioned it then.

> On one hand I guess this is a good thing for OS4 users. This should open
> the door to easier ports of key MorphOS software such as OWB and Ambient.

Porting MUI3 was necessary because of backwards compatibility. Porting MUI4 - which is only required by one application so far - and releasing it this way is like publicly telling people your own GUI toolkit sucks. Which it doesn't, even if it still lacks a feature or two.

It's a bad move that should have never happened. But given the state of the project, they can't be too picky about what they offer as "updates":

Timberwolf dead? Gallium/SMP only existing in the heads of some wannabe leaders? The W3D drivers that Trevor had "hoped to have ready" for AmiWest 2012 still not released?

MUI4 at least gives the impression of progress.

> Considering OS4 is moving from Reaction to a newer MUI

It's not, Reaction is still 'actively' (cough) developed and still the official GUI system for OS4.

> Porting MUI3 was necessary because of backwards compatibility. Porting MUI4
> - which is only required by one application so far - and releasing it this
> way is like publicly telling people your own GUI toolkit sucks. Which it
> doesn't, even if it still lacks a feature or two.

Except it does. Every sane Amiga programmer knows ClassAct sucks compared to MUI (even compared to 3.8 MUI) and it only became the de-facto OS standard UI kit, because it was sort of available for the purpose, and Amiga Technologies and Haage und Partner couldn't make up a proper deal to include MUI as the default kit as it always should have been.

> MUI4 at least gives the impression of progress.

Releasing a random 2006 source snapshot + a random patch set of "MUI4" gives the impression of progress? If you say so... Actually, IIRC OWB up to version 1.19 was still working with MorphOS 1.4.5 and with some early 2007(?) MUI4/MorphOS beta stuntzi released back then. (Newer OWB doesn't work because it needs classes and libraries only present in MorphOS 3.0+.) Which means the "hard work to implement missing things" as they always praised it was nothing but a release of already existing functionality in the sources they got and hacked until it sort of worked on OS4. My best bet is they probably only released MUI4 because they were forced to, since they failed to backport some required stuff into their 3.9 line to make OWB 1.16 work...

[vox]

How the hell is anyone supposed to vote on a poll with no "Pancakes" option? This is total insanity!

True dat, my bad, mods can fix it, vote pon it.

Its also mandess I have been hurrased and SUSPENDED from AW.net
as Elite and Bronze member, seen ...

Published on Sep 28, 2012
Refren:
Ja nikad necu nikad necu biti
Ja nikad necu biti kao vi
I stvarno necu nikad necu biti
Ja nikad necu biti kao vi

Kazu da sam se odrodio i da vise ne znam sta je pravo
Kazu mi da sam odlepio i da od mene nista nece biti
Laju laju laju podli jezici
Lazi stizu lazi vec po navici

Refren:
Ja nikad necu nikad necu biti
Ja nikad necu biti kao vi
I stvarno necu nikad necu biti
Ja nikad necu biti kao vi

Mala glava uvek misli malo
I uvek misli da preko ima vise
Maloj glavi ni do cega nije stalo
Jer mala glava ne zna svoje korene

Mozes li ti da budes kao ja
Mozes li ti da vidis gde je nevera
Mozes li ti da se setis i da krenes
Mozes li ti da svima njima dreknes

Refren:
Ja nikad necu nikad necu biti
Ja nikad necu biti kao vi
I stvarno necu nikad necu biti
Ja nikad necu biti kao vi

To sto vama uvek jeste vazno pet para na to ne dajem
Za mene to je prazno i lazno ja se broju deset predajem
Deset deset kao u staroj knjizi sto ti prica o ljubavi i brizi
Deset deset kao zapovesti kada ce stvarno doci do tvoje svesti

Refren:
Ja nikad necu nikad necu biti
Ja nikad necu biti kao vi
I stvarno necu nikad necu biti
Ja nikad necu biti kao vi
Mozes li ti da budes kao ja
Mozes li ti da vidis gde je nevera
Mozes li ti da se setis i da krenes
Mozes li ti da svima njima dreknes

Refren:
Ja nikad necu nikad necu biti
Ja nikad necu biti kao vi
I stvarno necu nikad necu biti
Ja nikad necu biti kao vi

To sto vama uvek jeste vazno pet para na to ne dajem
Za mene to je prazno i lazno ja se broju deset predajem
Deset deset kao u staroj knjizi sto ti prica o ljubavi i brizi
Deset deset kao zapovesti kada ce stvarno doci do tvoje svesti

Refren:
Ja nikad necu nikad necu biti
Ja nikad necu biti kao vi
I stvarno necu nikad necu biti
Ja nikad necu biti kao vi

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMAlq6zY86Y

[nicholas]

@Vox

Ti nikad necu biti Jamajke.

Now stop posting in Bosnian and faux-patois this is an English language forum which you are ruining for other members who can't understand half the crap you post.

Would you like it if I came to one of your Serbian language Amiga forums and did nothing but write in Farsi or Arabic and keep posting videos of Qur'an recitation or devotional song lyrics?

No you wouldn't, so please stop it with your insanity.

[vox]

@Vox

Ti nikad necu biti Jamajke.

Now stop posting in Bosnian and faux-patois this is an English language forum which you are ruining for other members who can't understand half the crap you post.

Would you like it if I came to one of your Serbian language Amiga forums and did nothing but write in Farsi or Arabic and keep posting videos of Qur'an recitation or devotional song lyrics?

No you wouldn't, so please stop it with your insanity.

A Rasta exist inna Serbia.

Try your combo. Yes, you can read it, or you can Google Translate, I do speak Serbo-Croatian, UK English (proficiency) and well enough Iyaric