X2000 or sue ... your comments

[itix]

Do you know if Stefan Stuntz was actually paid for this, or gave his blessing to it anyway? I knew they had permission to ship MUI 3 with OS4, but doing something like this is different. I'm asking because other OS4 developers are left unpaid and Hyperion has historically shown to have a special view on their rights regarding other peoples IP.

I don't speak for Stefan and don't know his dealings (I never ask him because it is none of my business). AFAIK he is not involved but he gets paid by Hyperion due to license agreement.

[matt3k]

That is actually the biggest reason, why I don't have any morphos machines, and the fact that I don't want old macs.

Very sorry some MOS users turned you away from a very nice system.  I never used AOS 4.x so it may be just as nice as MOS.  I can say that the newest 3.4 and latest release of owb have transformed my powerbook into a fast and modern feeling OS.

As many kudos that I give the MOS Team for the OS, I give kudos to Trevor and BBRV for making new hardware, and AROS and AOS 4.x for making OS's,  

I would love 'One Banner' for us to rally behind, but time will tell if that will be.

If you every have questions concerning MOS or wish to try it, my limited knowledge and assistance is at your disposal.

Merry Christmas to You and Yours!

Matt

[TheMagicM]

Very sorry some MOS users turned you away from a very nice system.  I never used AOS 4.x so it may be just as nice as MOS.  I can say that the newest 3.4 and latest release of owb have transformed my powerbook into a fast and modern feeling OS.

As many kudos that I give the MOS Team for the OS, I give kudos to Trevor and BBRV for making new hardware, and AROS and AOS 4.x for making OS's,  

I would love 'One Banner' for us to rally behind, but time will tell if that will be.

If you every have questions concerning MOS or wish to try it, my limited knowledge and assistance is at your disposal.

Merry Christmas to You and Yours!

Matt

Well said Matt.

[Iggy]

I would love 'One Banner' for us to rally behind, but time will tell if that will be.

Matt

If there is, it will be A-eon, not Hyperion or MorphOS.

The OS' are very similar (thanks to MUI, now even more so).

Obviously, I have my bias, although I tend to think of it a a well thought out informed opinion.

But that does not prevent me from supporting Trevor, A-eon, and Varisys.

[Fats]

AROS should be drawn to same level with OS4 and MorphOS. AROS is not discontinued and AROS is not only sharing source code to/from MorphOS but also to/from OS 4.

And OS3.5/OS3.9 also had AROS code used and some parts of OS3.5/OS3.9 API are supported by AROS.
Staf.

[Megamig]

Certainly the rate at which Hyperion develops drivers is pathetic, but that is not A-eon's fault.
Trevor has even give cash to Hyperion's contracted developers for 3Ddriver development (which still has not produced results).

Well what sort of contract does A-eon have when it comes to Hyperion?

 Surely, any professional business would have clauses that would require Hyperion to meet their deadline? Perhaps A-eon's should stop making excuses and start fighting for those who have invested in the X1000 so they can have a fully non-beta machine!

[Iggy]

Well what sort of contract does A-eon have when it comes to Hyperion?

 Surely, any professional business would have clauses that would require Hyperion to meet their deadline? Perhaps A-eon's should stop making excuses and start fighting for those who have invested in the X1000 so they can have a fully non-beta machine!

Since they included cards to cover the devices without drivers, I'd consider that sufficient.
Should they do the same with the X2000, I won't be one of those complaining.
What advantages do the on board parts offer?

[Niding]

Well what sort of contract does A-eon have when it comes to Hyperion?

 Surely, any professional business would have clauses that would require Hyperion to meet their deadline? Perhaps A-eon's should stop making excuses and start fighting for those who have invested in the X1000 so they can have a fully non-beta machine!

Not meeting socalled "deadlines" isnt unheard of. Both Valve and Blizzard for example got the "its released when its done" mantra down to a science.
Considering the amount of manpower they got compared to Hyperion, I dont think its suprising
development pace is slow on AOS4. A fact that wasnt/isnt much of a secret for anyone frequenting both this and other Amiga related forums.

[Iggy]

But it gets done.
How much longer for the SharkPPC?

[takemehomegrandma]

I don't speak for Stefan and don't know his dealings (I never ask him because it is none of my business). AFAIK he is not involved but he gets paid by Hyperion due to license agreement.

Why I ask is because back when Stefan Stuntz developed MUI4, he posted some progress reports where he said that he rewrote and improved the internals of MUI conciderably. But if I understands this OS4 thingy correct (what you and others say), it's still MUI3 but with some new third party written classes that resembles MUI4 based on info from the MorphOS SDK? Hyperion paid(?) for being allowed to bundle MUI3 (not MUI4?) with their OS, and then try to create a MUI4 API on their own, and then *call* it "MUI4"?

[Iggy]

Why I ask is because back when Stefan Stuntz developed MUI4, he posted some progress reports where he said that he rewrote and improved the internals of MUI conciderably. But if I understands this OS4 thingy correct (what you and others say), it's still MUI3 but with some new third party written classes that resembles MUI4 based on info from the MorphOS SDK? Hyperion paid(?) for being allowed to bundle MUI3 (not MUI4?) with their OS, and then try to create a MUI4 API on their own, and then *call* it "MUI4"?

Seriously?
Stefan Stuntz is still around, isn't he?
How can they get away with that if they aren't patching it at runtime?

[itix]

I don't know. The deal is between Hyperion and Stefan Stuntzi. Personally I don't find it wrong call it MUI 4 even if it is not "our" MUI 4.

In the end it makes sense. Odyssey is using number of new MUI classes and to port Odyssey to other platforms it is easier if they are available rather than add workarounds to Odyssey core. It can also mean that finally those N* classes could be dropped and multiplatform programs like Yam could finally use new APIs.

[Iggy]

So basically, they are calling it MUI4, but their license is for MUI3, and they are patching it to have code compatibility with our version.

And we copied stuff?

Hey, I'm all for it, but the attitudes need to stop.
There is no real proof Bill McEwen even really owned OS3.1 (and its fairly certain he didn't own 3.5 or 3.9).
But lets accept that as a given.

All our developers did was create an OS following the published 3.1 API specs.

Now, apparently the "real" AmigaOS community wants a chunk of our OS.

Why not just ask?

[utri007]

So basically, they are calling it MUI4, but their license is for MUI3, and they are patching it to have code compatibility with our version.

Still making claims without any knowledge. I would understand if you were asking it, but what you do is just stupid. You should understand that TakeMeHomeGrandma is not a reliable source and by the way he did not claim that, he asked it. IF Hyperion don't have a rights to MUI4, you would heard that, if they do it their own with permission from Stefan it is their business, not yours.

Makin claims like you and Nicholas like to do is just idiotic.

[nicholas]

Is os4 mui 4 required to be identical or are ssolie being interpeted based on what we think vs what he planned in the first place? I guess any inconsistency in the OS implimentation makes him a liar. Lose-lose situation regardless.

SSolie promised "MUI 4, like MorphOS already has" except this "MUI4" isn't actually what he claims it to be.

If he were honest and said "We will be enhancing MUI3.9 with our own reimplementations of MUI4 classes from MorphOS to facilitate easier porting of MorphOS software to OS4" then he would have more credibility.

See here for more details: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspeak

[Iggy]

SSolie promised "MUI 4, like MorphOS already has" except this "MUI4" isn't actually what he claims it to be.

If he were honest and said "We will be enhancing MUI3.9 with our own reimplementations of MUI4 classes from MorphOS to facilitate easier porting of MorphOS software to OS4" then he would have more credibility.

See here for more details: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspeak

Thanks Nik.

I just surprised that these guys are this transparent with this.
Stuntz hasn't been involved in our MUI4 for quite awhile.
And there is nothing wrong with them re-implementing classes  used by our version of MUI.
But it would be nice to hear Stefan's opinions on all this, as all we will get out of the AOS community is bluster.

And they ARE obviously copying from us.

Of course, I LIKE the idea of enhanced compatibility.

Even if this willingness to work together only seems to work one way.