indivision ECS vs 1084

[mikrucio]

hey guys

I snapped up the latest Indivision from Amigakit

Installed it the other night!

FANTASTIC product.

My Sony CRT scans down to 48khz so got the indi running at 1.00 factor.
works perfect. smooth scrolling and crystal clear.

My only gripe is the RF shield no longer fits back on the A500 without modification (slight)
and there is a slight amount of ghosting in the image (poor quality cable from the indivision coming out of the case of the A500)

Other than that its perfect. Thanks Jens.

[kickstart]

For games and demos 1084 is much better, for workbench productivity indivision is cool and expensive.

[ChaosLord]

However, having said this NOTHING BEATS AN RGB MONITOR FOR AMIGA. MOST GAMES AND DEMOS WERE MADE FOR THIS OUTPUT. The color richness, the dot pitch, etc..  (i'm lucky because i Have a 22in Vizio lcd tv and a Sony 20" RGB monitor hooked up to my a1200 so best of both worlds (and i can tell you if i'm watching demos or gaming i look at the rgb monitor but for productivity def the Vizio with HighGfx hi res mode from HDMI)

+16

[ChaosLord]

For games and demos 1084 is much better, for workbench productivity indivision is cool and expensive.

+4

[paul1981]

I went to the cinema the other week and there were a few arcade games there, and one was a car racing game. I had a closer look at it and watched the demo for a while. Well, how utterly crap the screen was...yeah, great on stills but as soon as there's movement on the screen it becomes a blurry heap of steaming poo. How on earth that's supposed to be a better experience than a CRT is absolutely beyond me. Progress? Me thinks not. Step back? Yeah, definitely.

[mikrucio]

not compared to my Sony..

Got 2 1084s's for sale in OZ. if anyone wants one.

one works perfect.

the other needs caps.
both phillips models

[Zetr0]

What I can say is that it is my personal opinion that the Indivision ECS is perhaps THE best product that Individual computers has released in the last 5 years.

I have one hooked up to my A600, prior to this my A500+ and I am truly delighted with its performance for the price.

yes you could buy cheaper <£20 deinterlacers / scan doublers - i.e. GBS8220 for example. and while that is a cracking bit of kit for the price - the Indi ECS is just delicious.


While on older LCD's the colours are washed and you can get tearing in the extreme, however that is true of even the most expensive up-scalers.  Where the Indi ECS really shines is on newer LCD/OLED panels and of course Plasma and good quality CRT.

I have tested mine and the best / impressive results with my 42" Panasonic plasma (SVGA RGB), 19" AOC CRT and 27" LG LCDTV (via VGA RGB)

I can also say I get good results with my GBS8220 with the above devices however the Indi ECS has a very noticeable better output quality (and the GBS8220 does tear slightly on the LG LCD).

Where the Indi ECS really shines is in the added screen modes Hi-GFX and the beta Picasso RTG Chunky Mode - just astounding when one considers is only an A500 or A600 that its plumbed into - you could installed this in the A1000 or even the A3000, although there's something about Amber

All in all, given the pennies in the pocket and the option to buy an Indi ECS for the £80 - ish I would emplore you not to miss that opportunity - it truly is a great product and I still geek out over my A600

A600 Specs :-

Code: [Select]

[B]Processor:[/B]
020@16.7Mhz -  ACA620

[B]Memory:[/B]
10.8MB FAST RAM - ACA620
2MB CHIP - A604
1MB MapROM (load kickstart images from hard-disk-device)

[B]Video[/B]
Indivision ECS [FONT=arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#333333][FONT=arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#333333][B]8-bit, 15 bit, 16 bit chunky pixel modes[/B] (15 bit & 16 bits are converted) to 12 bits[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#333333][FONT=arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#333333] [B]Resolution from 320x200 to 1024x768[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#333333][FONT=arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#333333] [B]Video memory can be directly described by DMA chipset[/B] (up to 7.15 MB/s)[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#333333][FONT=arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#333333][B] All OCS/ECS screenmodes displayed and scan-converted[/B], output is always over 60Hz and flicker-free[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#333333][FONT=arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#333333] [B]Fallback to legacy flickerfixer-type 49.9Hz[/B] modes at the user's choice[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#333333][FONT=arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#333333] [B]Dual monitor support[/B] when two [B]Indivision ECS[/B] are connected together in one Amiga![/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#333333][FONT=arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#333333] Optional [B]scanline emulation[/B] for retro-feeling[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#333333][FONT=arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#333333] [B]Video Toaster compatible[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#333333][FONT=arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#333333] [B]Re-configurable / re-flashable design[/B], new screenmodes can be added with a software upgrade[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#333333][FONT=arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#333333] [B]Highgfx[/B] support ( larger screenmodes )[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[B]Storage[/B]
4x Buffered IDE Fix (will upgrade to a IDE Fix Express) IDE -> SATA bridge
40GB 2.5" HDD
DVDRW (external SFF SATA)
Its quite ironic, I have just realized after typing this out that perhaps I should slap a "sponsored by Individual Computers" sticker on the bottom of the chassis!

So if you have the opportunity to buy an Indivision ECS then do so... I am pretty sure that once you plug it in and get going you will love your life!

[Iggy]

DECISIONS DECISIONS!

Might just get the 1084 recapped then...
Im hardcore.

Personally,the extra desk space itself justifies switching to an LCD monitor.
Besides, a 24" or larger monitor is kind of cool.

[bbond007]

DECISIONS DECISIONS!

Might just get the 1084 recapped then...
Im hardcore.

I don't have an ECS, but I do have an AGA MK2 and the scan-line emulation looks great.

maybe someone could comment on if the ECS supports that.

I'm hardcore too, but not hardcore enough to tolerate interlace mode or floppy drives.

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

I don't have an ECS, but I do have an AGA MK2 and the scan-line emulation looks great.

maybe someone could comment on if the ECS supports that.

I'm hardcore too, but not hardcore enough to tolerate interlace mode or floppy drives.

It does.  I tried it on mine, and turned it off again just as quick.  Didn't care for scanlines in 1991, care for them even less now, on a 37" LCD.  

[Lurch]

Not sure what LCD's people are using, but a good LCD monitor is far better than any CRT/1084 monitor.

No tearing/blur etc, then you have new tech LCD's like LED/OLED and these take it a step further.

a 1080p or higher monitor/TV is amazing. Can't wait for the 4k and 8k tv's later this year/early next year to become more mainstream. The detail and resolution blows 1080p out of the water.

With a decent LCD/Plasma the colours just pop out of the screen, wouldn't go back to a CRT/1084. 24" of LCD goodness is hard to beat.

With the indivision ECS/AGA Mk2 and a decent LCD monitor you'll never go back. Own both of these and I must say the MK2 is now coming along nicely :-)

[Damion]

Well, there's a huge difference between a 1084, and an expensive Trinitron/Diamondtron or Sony broadcast CRT. For 15kHz gaming, there's simply no comparison against an LCD. The contrast, resolution scaling, lack of motion blur and lag, etc, is all pretty easily noticeable.

For modern gaming/PC/movies, I'll take a good LCD any day. I can still see the blur, but the better monitors (using an Eizo Foris 2332 here) are definitely "good enough" for gaming. Black levels still aren't so hot, but even so, there's no way I'd want a CRT for my PC. :-)

[ChaosLord]

I use a 19" CRT monitor shared between my Core i5 pc and my mighty Amiga 1200 megaputer.  Its an awesome monitor.

No scaling artifacts no matter what resolution I use.  This monitor can actually change the size of the pixels to perfectly fit any resolution mode!  Gasp!  Its magic!

No pixel blur.

I can change EVERY pixel on the screen from ANY color to ANY other color instantly.  (Most LCDs cannot do this)

Supports NTSC, PAL, 72Hz, etc. etc. view modes.

I am currently using it in 1280x1024x32bits per pixel @75 Hz.

Works with my Amiga and my bgcpc.

[Lurch]

Don't have any contrast, scaling, motion blur or lag issues with an Indivision ECS/AGA MK2 + 24" Dell monitor or 47" LG TV so not sure what you guys are doing :-)

The colours through the Indi are far better than connecting via SCART or through a 1084 monitor. They are bright and vivid.

It's the best I've seen workbench/whdload gaming.

I had a high end german made crt tv (can't remember the brand now) and I thought that was good at the time but technology moves on :-)

[NovaCoder]

Yep LCD for me too.

I used to have an old 19" CRT, yes it was a nice picture but it took up half my desk and nearly broke my back every time I wanted to take it to a meeting

In the end the tube started to go so I got rid of that monster and went to LCD.

[desiv]

I've done both...  LCD and CRT...
For quality, the CRTs win...  Unless you've got some really great LCDish screen (Plasma or ??  I don't know..), I don't see that it's a question really.  CRT is better..

But CRTs get MUCH bigger as the screen size goes up.

I currently use a 1084s on my A1000, which I love..  Great image quality...

But my A1200 is connected to an LCD.  That's purely for desk space reasons.
My work desk has my work laptop on it, then my main LCD.
I have a KVM for the main LCD, so it's either the 2nd screen for my work laptop, the screen for my desktop, or the screen for my Amiga.

Trying to fit a CRT there that I can use with the Amiga just didn't work.
I actually have a 1702 in the corner of the desk, and it's OK for my Vic-20/Atari 7800/etc, but not for the Amiga with keyboard/mouse.  (It's fine for the Amiga with joystick, but I use my 1200 with the keyboard/mouse a lot.)

Now, the Amiga looks pretty good on the LCD.  But I prefer to game on my Amiga 1000 with the 1084s.  (Which isn't on the same desk, back corner of the office.)

Indivision (which I don't have(GBS), but have seen in action) is a great piece of hardware.  And using it with an Amiga is great.
But I prefer CRTs.  My MAME machine has a CRT as well..  I just prefer CRTs, when space is available..

desiv