Was Commodore forced into bankruptcy by the banks?

[ajlwalker]

What country was this in? In 1994 after Commodore went out of business the Amiga shops around central FL dried up faster than spit on a sidewalk in summer and not a single one of them ever carried a CD32 or an A1200 that I saw.

The UK for one.

In the space of about 3 months, the CD32 went from nowhere to more than 50% of the UK CD-ROM based software market.  I'm sure the charts were regularly shown in the UK Amiga magazines of the time.

I'm fairly certain the CD32 for all its faults actually brought in some money (if you discount the hundreds of thousands manufactured for the North American that never made it out of the Philippine factory).

And not to be pedantic but, digiman was kinda referencing the run up to Commodore going bankrupt, not after.

[ajlwalker]

By the end ie Fall of 93 to April 94 it was clear to everyone that Commodore in Europe alone was a viable business and this is what bugs me.

The A1200 sold well even on first production run in the UK, many people bought it with no AGA software as such to even showcase the machine. At this time a 386DX 33/40mhz would cost about £1000 here and still couldn't play Super Stardust or Lotus II in equivalent quality to be honest. Sure it played Wolfenstein better but that's just one genre and all the crap you had to ensure with loading DOS drivers high and UMB and god knows what other rubbish I've gladly forgotten about putrid MS OS designed by Sinclair ZX81 lovers.

The point was not only was Commodore a viable business (David Pleasance and Colin Proudfoot? wanted to basically win the bid and run it as a European operation as this was more than profitable enough).

If you look at the deals that were done for Warner's Atari to Jack Tramiel and then look at how they ripped Commodore to shreds and made it an incredibly long drawn out procedure that it effectively killed off the wounded company for any would be buyer you have to ask yourself why?

End of the day whilst turning over they were paying their debts slowly, if you shut them down when even only half the company is profitable you're either doing it for a reason or just have zero financial savvy about the world of business.

It makes no sense, it's like someone telling the bank they have just got a job and need a month more to start paying back the backlog and take up payments and then the bank saying no and repossessing the house and making a massive loss on the sale price of property vs loan amount.

So what I want to know is are there legal factual records I can look at somewhere on the web or request records of for disclosure to put a spot light on this ridiculous situation. The magazine facts are not what I want, I need exact figures and copies of contracts and activated clauses used to shut down Commodore. Only then can we get them looked at with a legal eye and get a legal point of view of "this is standard practise for the 90s" or "this is just insane and makes no sense" that's all. Facts are a powerful thing and well sod UFOs for me if there is something covered up about this bankruptcy it has to come out into the public domain

If anyone knows what happened to the MOS/CSG building with all that EPA bollox it only adds fuel to the fire as to how this was like a firestorm operation of military precision to take out every trace of Commodore.

(yeah I know, slim to zero chance of us finding out but hey it's worth asking on a snowball's chance in hell)

I seem to recall Commodore were selling 5000 A1200 a week in the UK and hopeful of selling double that in the run up to Christmas.

The Amiga really was a non-story in the US. Except perhaps big box Amigas, which actually had a few niche uses that some North American businesses found useful.

[ChuckT]

So what I want to know is are there legal factual records I can look at somewhere on the web or request records of for disclosure to put a spot light on this ridiculous situation. The magazine facts are not what I want, I need exact figures and copies of contracts and activated clauses used to shut down Commodore. Only then can we get them looked at with a legal eye and get a legal point of view of "this is standard practise for the 90s" or "this is just insane and makes no sense" that's all. Facts are a powerful thing and well sod UFOs for me if there is something covered up about this bankruptcy it has to come out into the public domain

Commodore was a billion dollar company and you can probably find the Wall Street Journal or NY Times article that they weren't paying their taxes.

There was a member from PAUG who owned some stock and tried to speak up at the stock meeting and they had him arrested.

If Jack was smart enough to get out then that should give you a little idea of how difficult it was or alledgedly whom he was dealing with.

[B00tDisk]

What country was this in? In 1994 after Commodore went out of business the Amiga shops around central FL dried up faster than spit on a sidewalk in summer and not a single one of them ever carried a CD32 or an A1200 that I saw.

Remember the one down on 436 & E. Colonial that later moved up in to Casselberry?

[B00tDisk]

I seem to recall Commodore were selling 5000 A1200 a week in the UK and hopeful of selling double that in the run up to Christmas.

The Amiga really was a non-story in the US. Except perhaps big box Amigas, which actually had a few niche uses that some North American businesses found useful.

Yeah; wedge Amigas (despite those being all I and my friends owned, except for a couple of guys we knew who had an A2000 and A3000 respectively) really didn't go anywhere here.  The few folks I knew who had them, I'd talk to 'em about upgrades and so forth and get MEGO, followed by "Heh, all I know is I put the Lemmings disk in and it goes."

One guy I knew had an A500 with 2mb RAM, but he basically used it and AMAX-II so it was effectively a cheap mac clone for him.  He never even saw the Amiga side except during boot-up.

****, if I'd have had a big box Amiga I'd have at least kept it until '96 or '97, possibly longer, if for no other reason than a Bridgeboard or single-board PC would've matched what I owned until then.

[Bodie]

@Digiman

If you want to get into the details - search for the 20-F form for commodore international.

Relevant snippet:

"In May 1987, the Company issued $60 million of senior and subordinated notes
with warrants to purchase 2,250,000 shares of capital stock to an insurance
company. The warrants are exercisable at $11.40 per share until March 1994. The
Company repurchased 750,000 warrants in March 1989 for $4.5 million and an
additional 750,000 warrants in April 1991 for $4.5 million. In March 1993 the
unpaid balance of $8 million of subordinated notes were retired in exchange for
a similar amount of senior notes. In August 1988, the Company issued an
additional $50 million of senior notes to two insurance companies. The notes
are uncollateralized.

    As of 30 June 1993 the Company was in default under the provisions of the
notes. The note agreements contain various covenants which, among others,
provide for the maintenance of a minimum level of net worth and contain
restrictions on dividends. For financial statement purposes the entire amount
of debt has been reclassified as current. The Company is engaged in
negotiations with the lenders to restructure the debt, although there can be no
assurance an agreement will be reached.

    As of 1 November 1993, the Company received a waiver of non-compliance with
the provisions of the note agreements through 31 January 1994. The waiver
provides that the exercise price of the 750,000 warrants is reduced from $11.40
per share to $3.50 per share and the exercise period is extended from March
1994 to March 1996. In addition, the exercise price is further reduced to $.50
per share if the interest payments due on 1 January 1994 are not made in full.

    As of 30 June 1993 the Company was in default under a real estate mortgage
for $5.7 million. The bank commenced legal action which has been suspended
based on mutually agreed payment terms. For financial statement purposes the
entire amount of the mortgage has been classified as current.

    As of 30 June 1993 the Company was in default under an equipment loan for
$13.0 million. The Company intends to sell the equipment in the near future and
retire the debt. For financial statement purposes the entire amount of the
equipment loan has been classified as current. "

[takemehomegrandma]

@Bodie

...the *definition* of a "lurcher" is...:

?

[Matt_H]

As of 30 June 1993 the Company was in default under an equipment loan for $13.0 million. The Company intends to sell the equipment in the near future and retire the debt. For financial statement purposes the entire amount of the
equipment loan has been classified as current. "

This might explain why the "factory" was completely empty in Dave Haynie's Deathbed Vigil walkthrough.

Also recall from DBV that Commodore couldn't afford parts to manufacture enough 1200s. Their credit with suppliers was shot. They probably sent most of those that they could produce to Europe where they'd be guaranteed to sell.

And if I remember correctly, Commodore put themselves into voluntary liquidation. They weren't "forced" into bankruptcy. My guess is this was probably done so Gould & Friends could get away with their ill-gotten gains and not have to deal with the aftermath.

[Digiman]

OK thanks will have a dig around for this F-20 form on pooglewoogle ta.

I know they voluntarily filed for bankruptcy but Commodore GMBH and UK were profitable businesses in their own right, the way the company was carved up like a thanksgiving turkey was a joke IMO.