MorphOS ahead of AROS?

[takemehomegrandma]

I think you do suffer from "Amiga Prosecution Complex" :-)

:lol:

OK I get it now, "prosecution", "persecution" — English isn't my native language and some words *do* look kind of the same...

Rational arguments are great, using terms like "outright moronic" are the opposite.

Well, "moronic" is actually a very good (and rational) adjective for describing a strategy for platform building that involves $3,000 computers of 2007 level that offers little more than a $100 computer from 2004, believing this will lead to platform growth and a sustainable future, and getting upset when someone makes posts *in a forum* on how it *won't*!

Anyway, meta discussions about discussions are off-topic in *any* thread (also in this one!), and it would be much better if you would stop this, or at least take it to AW.net where this is seems to be the norm. If you have arguments to counter mine about the A1X1K, bring it on (preferably in the now running thread that *is about* the A1X1K and not here), but please stop filling the forums with pointless discussions about the discussion, it only brings up the noise...

[OlafS3]

just ignore it. Here it is about relations between Aros and MorphOS and not X1000 or AOS

[DLH]

Is there a quick reference that shows all of these options and explains what they exactely are?
 
I haven't ever used anything except the original hardware (1000, 500, 2000, 1200 and 4000).
 
thanks
 
DLH

[OlafS3]

What options do you exactly mean?

Differences between the platforms?

[paolone]

Yes, like two applications running on two separate computers (with separate OS code), instead of the two applications running in the same environment.

Wrong. AmiBridge is a set of scripts which does a completely different things. When Janus coherency mode was not available, it opened a new UAE/Workbench session for every 68K program you launched, moreover restricting the screen resolution to AGA pal hi res. But once coherency mode was completed by Oliver, this model has been immediately abandoned and Amibridge just became a faster, easier way to integrate AmigaOS and KickStart files into the Icaros installation. Once this has been done, it also assists the user in setting up coherency mode correctly, in a semi-automated way. Done that, you can even run the Amiga M68K virtual machine inside AROS at every startup. It will just sit there until you run any 68K application, and then you'll see applications windows seamlessly integrated in the AROS workbench. You can move and resize them as you wish. Programs will run in a single, shared instance of UAE just like they ran on a single physical Amiga machine. M68K programs can then access to AROS partitions (with the only default limitation of read-only mode for system drive - but the user is free to change it) and read/save the same files. AROS and AmigaOS share the clipboard too, and this ensures there is enough communication between the two world to just forget about messing with 68k and x86 libraries in the same environment (I can't understand why you OS4/MOS people still continue considering this as a feature: I don't even want to imagine how many context-switches and bytecode translations are needed to use, in the same program, libraries written for totally different architectures like m68k and PPC, really!). In the end, I consider this approach safer and better than others, since M68K programs run in a coherent M68K environment, while x86 ones do the same on a coherent and well separed x86 one. User just will see little differences on the screen, due to different fonts used in the systems and maybe some slower refresh in M68K windows. But this is something they can quitely live with, counting they have paid nothing for the OS, less than 10 euros for the Amiga environment (last time I looked into Cloanto's site, Amiga Forever Value - which is perfect for Amibridge! - was priced € 9,99), and surely not € 2500 for the hardware (or maybe they did, but not with AROS in mind).

[OlafS3]

or nothing for both using Aros 68k :-) Thank you for explanation

[paolone]

I follow AROS developments, but its still not ready for me to make my  primary usage platform, like I used an Amiga back in the early 90s in  place of unix variants and windows.  I don't have a machine that runs MorphOS, but as far as I'm aware from what I've read....

Graphics wise, MorphOS has video overlay and some hardware accelerated  alpha channel aware graphics functions implemented which are missing or  incompletely implemented in AROS.  I'm not sure which are HIDD/driver  features, and which are higher levels, but it will be nice to see AROS  continue to improve in these areas.

MorphOS has commercial quality Poseidon USB and TurboPrint printers support.  Other areas AROS is slightly lagging in.

MorphOS allows partitions greater than 128GB with their newer SFS, while  AROS is lagging in Amiga style native file systems that support the  larger disks of today, unless you partition into many slices.

MorphOS has had better MUI and GUI theme integration system wide.
Probably better console and text editor implementations.

AROS has been improving much in the past couple of years, but still has a  ways to go.  The m68k-amiga emulation environment probably needs some  more hooks into the native environment and a gui-less AROS kickstart rom workbench  program that just communicates to the aros-native one to do its work,  with a single shared mui/theme prefs between the two, so a user never  needs to see a second disconnected GUI that behaves differently than the  native environment.

Perfect. I think this is exactly the kind of answers Mazze expected from this topic. You listed some "cons" AROS developers should look at in the future.

[takemehomegrandma]

Wrong.
...
you'll see applications windows seamlessly integrated in the AROS workbench. You can move and resize them as you wish.
...
M68K programs can then access to AROS partitions
...
M68K programs run in a coherent M68K environment, while x86 ones do the same on a coherent and well separed x86 one. User just will see little differences on the screen

Maybe I don't understand, but from what you just said there, it pretty much sounded *exactly* what I meant when I said "like two applications running on two separate computers (with separate OS code), instead of the two applications running in the same environment", one host/AROS box, and one 68k box. You are talking about making it *look* like the same system in a purely visual/theme sense (and have access to a common clipboard), but in my view it's still a lot more like running WinUAE on a Windows7 machine (where the 68k part also can access the host systems file system, etc) than what both MorphOS and OS4 offers today, where you simply don't have any HW emulation or separate/shielded off "boxes" at all, but all binaries are run the same way, share the same memory space, the same resources, data, sheduling, messaging, arexx, *everything*, no matter if they are 68k or PPC, there simply is no difference at all (it *is* one and the same, not just visually so)!

Maybe that would be a necessary trade-off approach for MorphOS as well in the future (after an architecture jump), but there is a *vast* difference from what is here in MorphOS today, both in a practical/pragmatical manner, as well as in a philosophical manner.

[OlafS3]

yes that is right. It is 68k started as application so to say (hidden from the user) but not mixed with the host system like on MOS or MorphOS. More like a sandbox concept.

On Aros you have plenty of different architectures like X86, ARM, PPC, 68k and hosted options. I think it would be a nightmare when you could mix all the systems. That this is possible on MOS, AOS has certainly something to do with PPC. All has its price.

[itix]

By the way...

Features:

Aros:
I think the main advantages (between others) are that (...) and 3D support.

I've read several times from the black furry propaganda department that 3D support in AROS is so way ahead. Care to elaborate?

[OlafS3]

the discussion was not about "my OS is better than ..." anymore. But if you want...  Aros has full Mesa and Gallium3D support and MorphOS not. But MorphOS has a lot of features that Aros has not...

[billyfish]

:lol:

OK I get it now, "prosecution", "persecution" — English isn't my native language and some words *do* look kind of the same...

No worries! :-) Believe me, your English is wayyyy better than my equal-second (more like equal last! :-)) languages; French and Greek!

[billyfish]

Features:

Aros:
I think the main advantages (between others) are that it is available for different hardware (X86, ARM, 68k and I think PPC) and even hosted (f.e. on Linux what is a nice option :-) ) and 3D support.

I try but I am no expert for AOS and MOS...

MorphOS:
MUI4
Ambient (or similar)
Poseidon (already in MorphOS and Aros)
and a lot more I do not know :-)

I don't know either! Iggy, Itix and TMHG, what are the MorphOS features/software that stand out for you?

AOS:
I do not know much about AOS to say any features because I do not use it. I know that there are many components done different like Reaction instead of MUI, another USB-Stack...

Off the top of my head, the (admittedly not-perfect) shared object suppport, Timberwolf and QT are the ones that spring to my mind. I really like QT once you get your head around its extra declarations in C++.

3.1.:
Most things you can do in 3.1. you already can do in any of the NG-platforms. I think main advantage is the huge software-base, so tons of software :-)

Absolutely agree, so that implies 68k (and for games I would love AGA) emulation is really important.

What I think what should be there:
common drivers (USB, PCI)
cross-platform support (including hosted versions)
cross-plattform development tools
common software
API should be equal (as far as possible), GUI can be different (like KDE or Gnome)

Yup when you've used eclipse or visual c, it shows how our development tools are lacking. Even though I often stick with a test editor and a sheel, an easy to use debugger, etc. are worth their wait in gold. I use SAS/C on the 68k side, Codeblocks/Eclipse for Linux too. I know that OS4 has codebench, what are the options on MorphOS/AROS? I'm guessing they're gcc- and vbcc-based too?

But yes commonality across the API and for drivers can only be a good thing.

[OlafS3]

Greek as second language? Here most people take English (and French) as second language, some also spain. But greek is certainly seldom.

[Terminills]

By the way...



I've read several times from the black furry propaganda department that 3D support in AROS is so way ahead. Care to elaborate?

Could you refrain from using the "furry" reference. :rofl:

[Iggy]

I don't know either! Iggy, Itix and TMHG, what are the MorphOS features/software that stand out for you?

TinyGL with its support for many OpenGL commands is nice.

The Ambient desktop is a big improvement over other Amigoid desktop environments.

Trance JIT 68K interpretation to speed emulation.

Native support for the FAT filesystem.

HTML5 support in Odyssey(OWB).

Really fast boot times.

Quick support from the developers (Fab suggested a solution for a problem I was experiencing within OWB the same day I posted the inquiry).

Support for affordable hardware.

Reliable, crash free.

Plenty more...