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Author Topic: MorphOS ahead of AROS?  (Read 72336 times)

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Offline billyfish

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Re: MorphOS ahead of AROS?
« Reply #44 on: April 03, 2012, 08:04:03 PM »
Quote from: Fats;686835
I am an AROS developer and find all these 'my amiga-like OS is better then your amiga-like OS' discussions counterproductive. Unfortunately some people here think it is a very important discussion.

I can't speak for all AROS devs but IMO as an AROS developer I find people who use AROS to brag to other amigans don't get what AROS is about. I am developing AROS for the whole amiga community and everybody who wants to use my code is free to do so. Don't mind if he is a classic OS, OS4, MOS or AROS user and/or developer. The only thing I ask is to obey the open source nature of the code.

greets,
Staf.


Quote from: Duce;686838
A very good (and refreshing) attitude to have, Fats.  It astonishes me how people are so willing to bad mouth all the other Amiga-like OS variants other than their particular choice.  Different strokes for different folks.

We're all on the same boat with this hobby, but some people still seem hell bent to drill holes in the bow of the very boat they are sailing on, effectively sinking everyone, including themselves.



Thank god!! Sometimes comments like these are like an oasis in the desert. Try as I might I really can't bend my poor little head around the  "My OS rulez, urs suxxxx!" attitude, always reminds me of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&v=gb_qHP7VaZE
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: MorphOS ahead of AROS?
« Reply #45 on: April 03, 2012, 08:41:49 PM »
Quote from: billyfish;686839
Thank god!! Sometimes comments like these are like an oasis in the desert. Try as I might I really can't bend my poor little head around the  "My OS rulez, urs suxxxx!" attitude, always reminds me of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&v=gb_qHP7VaZE

Well, I can understand how you feel, but I'd have to back up Xdelusion's statements.
MorphOS is polished enough to rely on and AROS is interesting, and even fun, but not reliable (sorry Staf).
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Offline eb15

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Re: MorphOS ahead of AROS?
« Reply #46 on: April 03, 2012, 08:45:22 PM »
I follow AROS developments, but its still not ready for me to make my  primary usage platform, like I used an Amiga back in the early 90s in  place of unix variants and windows.  I don't have a machine that runs MorphOS, but as far as I'm aware from what I've read....

Graphics wise, MorphOS has video overlay and some hardware accelerated  alpha channel aware graphics functions implemented which are missing or  incompletely implemented in AROS.  I'm not sure which are HIDD/driver  features, and which are higher levels, but it will be nice to see AROS  continue to improve in these areas.

MorphOS has commercial quality Poseidon USB and TurboPrint printers support.  Other areas AROS is slightly lagging in.

MorphOS allows partitions greater than 128GB with their newer SFS, while  AROS is lagging in Amiga style native file systems that support the  larger disks of today, unless you partition into many slices.

MorphOS has had better MUI and GUI theme integration system wide.
Probably better console and text editor implementations.

AROS has been improving much in the past couple of years, but still has a  ways to go.  The m68k-amiga emulation environment probably needs some  more hooks into the native environment and a gui-less AROS kickstart rom workbench  program that just communicates to the aros-native one to do its work,  with a single shared mui/theme prefs between the two, so a user never  needs to see a second disconnected GUI that behaves differently than the  native environment.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 08:51:44 PM by eb15 »
 

Offline Manu

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Re: MorphOS ahead of AROS?
« Reply #47 on: April 03, 2012, 09:03:54 PM »
Sometimes I wonder what you guys actually DO on your Amiga likes.
(Coders aside of course, I can clearly see why you are into them)

For me none of the Amiga-likes are good enough yet for heavy work.
Simply because for me the applications & OS are equally important.
The Amiga like OS:es all either lack processing power or applications
that I need. Dpaint simply doesn't cut it for me anymore. :)
Sure all three are good enough for browsing playing mp3's chatting etc. etc.
but that's only a small percentage of my computer usage. And  I got tired of
playing lots of old games too.

Because of my history I have a preference for Amiga like OS'es so I look forward to
the day I could have both worlds. Phoenixconsole's Linux/AROS hybrid could eventually
be what I'm looking for.

So do keep on fighting in your sanboxes about who's better than the other for all I care.
I don't see many differences.
AmigaOS or MorphOS on x86 would sell orders of magnitude more than the current, hardware-intensive solutions. And they\\\'d go faster. --D.Haynie
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Offline XDelusion

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Re: MorphOS ahead of AROS?
« Reply #48 on: April 03, 2012, 10:01:43 PM »
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;686761
I completely agree, as does (probably) most people who has MorphOS experience coming in contact with AROS.

Anyway, since you already gave such a good answer, I'm going to dedicate my post entirely to speculations! :) Maybe the future way forward for MorphOS will be to abandon the integrated, seamless 68k emulation at some point, together with the ambition to maintain the API as tight to the original Amiga OS API as they do today, maybe changes will be necessary at some point, if you are to make a jump to a different architecture/ISA. While it would lead to some sacrifices (turning it more into AROS, but still more than that), it could also lead to many great things, like a better HW platform, true SMP, true MP, true 64-bit, etc.

Then you would have to run the old Amiga apps through UAE or whatever, like they do on AROS, maybe that will be good enough on a x86 machine (it's not much fun on PPC). It will be a completely different manner than what we are used to on MorphOS (or OS4) today, it won't be integrated, it wont be as seemless, it's a different philosophy on "Amiga backwards compatibility" altogether, but although the thought might be a bit shocking to us at first, it seems to be enough for AROS people? Anyway, it wouldn't stop by just becoming a new "AROS Copy", since most new (and most interesting) MorphOS SW are in PPC, and is still maintained and could probably be ported to a new MorphOS "v4.0" architecture without greater troubles. Some good SW has even been brought under the MorphOS Team's wings for integration into the MorphOS package, and I think this strategy might continue.

So MorphOS would (probably) still have most of its native SW stack available, but you would have to run Amiga apps in the AROS way. MorphOS will of course still have its unique polished look and feel, the same features (and  more), the feeling of a real, usable desktop, etc from MUI4, Ambient, etc, not anything like AROS. And somehow I doubt the MorphOS Team will ever settle with running MorphOS in some process on top of another OS (as they seem putting a lot of pride into building a complete OS themselves)? And as a result, it could have a better HW platform, true SMP, true MP, true 64-bit, etc, a package completely new to Amiga, a "2nd Next Generation" (meaning Third of course :lol:, "3D miga"), which neither AROS or OS4 could match. But who knows, these things are *highly* hypothetical speculations, and might not happen at all (though they have been suggested by some MorphOS developers as one of several plausible ways to a future). I guess we'll learn in time... :)

From what I read, I do believe this basically is the game plan.

On the one hand, I can honestly say that even if MorphOS wasn't backwards compatible (as in not having to rely on some half assed WinUAE wanna be, but being able to install and run classic apps natively), I would cringe, but I can also say that the OS is awesome enough on it's own that I would still use it and still consider it Amiga in spirit, much like I do with Haiku which has NOTHING to do with Amiga except for that "in spirit" it feels like a continuation of the technology I have grown to love over the past couple of decades.

The only thing that worries me is that I don't see to many new software releases coming out. A stand alone OS that may at some point no longer support the MASSIVE software library from yesterday would suffer without a slew of new and original apps to replace the ones we had. ImageFX comes to mind.

Likewise, as you have said, UAE is not quite as exciting as it is on x86, though as it stands, unless you are running WinUAE, the experience still isn't the greatest. Sure you can run classic non-PPC games from disk images, and that it does well, but when it comes to running a virtual environment or integrating the emulation into the OS itself...

Well I'll just say that UAE is still lacking majorly in that department and the experience is NO WHERE near at good as using a real Amiga, or the MorphOS method for that matter (even with the added ability to emulate the old chip sets which is primarily just for old games anyhow).
UAE cuts off support for classic PPC apps and games, it wastes valuable resources, and again, if the OS it is running on is not stable, then the emulation is not going to be stable (though stability is not an issue MorphOS suffers from).
On top of that, I must once again state that no version of UAE can compare to WinUAE, and that's just sad because that means that if we want to emulate classic Amiga and do it well, we have to use the OS that many of use avoided for all these years. I mean wasn't it our loathing for Windows and Mac that helped inspire so many of us to chose Amiga in the first place?

Granted, I really hope things get better for the non WinUAE varients of UAE, but so far the progress has been TERRIBLY SLOW!!!!!!! And I can only imagine that bringing JIT to PPC UAE is only going to take longer, but then if MorphOS goes to ARM, won't JIT have to be ported to ARM too?!?!

All in all I don't like this idea. I have been looking for modern(ish) hardware that I could score at a cheap price, and be able to run a large chunk of my more resoure intensive classic Amiga apps on, and until my eMac died, despite it's limited resources, has been the answer to my praryers! I would only hope that in the future that the MorphOS team would strive to maintain classic support on what ever new hardware that they may be targetting, for as long as possible. I like not needing Amiga rom images, I like not having to load up an emulator, I like being able to run my old software as if it were native, and it does not bother me in the least that I am not able to play the old games without emulation because of the chip set because when you are gaming, you are not using the OS, so I could really care less. It's when I'm running classic apps that I don't want to be running an emulator.

As for that handful of classic Apps like OctaMED S.S. that MorphOS does not run (and OS 4 does for what ever reason), I can always resort to using Amithlon, which to me, was the prefered way of taking Amiga to the future in regards to using the x86 family of processors. It still pains me deeply that Amiga Inc. (Bill) killed the project off.

Anyhow, there is my UAE rant, and why I prefer MorphOS like it is. Backwards compatible. Though again, by the time all this takes place, we'll probably be at version 4.x which I'm sure is going to be VERY impressive, and I'm sure that when 3.x comes out, developers will get excited again and will begin to start coding fresh new apps and games for it.

Besides the FPGA and Natami should be out some day, so even if my classic Amigas die some day, I'll have those hardware platforms to consider for high end Amigaing. :)


On a final note, one comparison I can make between AROS and MorphOS is with FPSE. I was actually able to get the MorphOS port to out perform the AROS port that was running on a 2.6 Dual Core Intel Machine with GeForce Graphics, 2Gb RAM, etc. Ironically the MorphOS port was running on my crappy little eMac with 1Gb or RAM, a 1.2Ghz PPC CPU, and classic built in ATI graphics with 32Mb RAM. All using the same exact settings at that, go figure...

And for the note, I am not here to bash AROS and start the (My Amiga OS is better than your Amiga OS) war. I am just stating the facts from what I have experienced, having gone into both OS' with high hopes. On that note I wish ALL Amiga varients the best of luck. I hope the devs from all four camps continue to work together and help each other benefit from their knowledge and experience. If it were not my love for these OS's then I would not bother to write and complain when one of them or all of them fail to live up to my expectations. ;)
« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 10:05:31 PM by XDelusion »
Earth has a lot of things other folks might want... like the whole planet. And maybe these folks would like a few changes made, like more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and room for their way of life. - William S. Burroughs
 

Offline XDelusion

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Re: MorphOS ahead of AROS?
« Reply #49 on: April 03, 2012, 10:17:29 PM »
And not to sound all pro MorphOS and anti-AROS again, but...

MorphOS is perfectly fine with your USB drives. It won't freak out, write slow as hell to it, nothing. And again if your USB drive is formatted to NTFS, not a problem.

Kind of an important thing in today's computing world where we like to put all our movies and musick on such devices. And on that note, I must say that FAB's port of Mplayer rivals all other ports I've used, and I'm not just talking Amiga OS varients. The user interface is sublime!!!

I won't even get into his version of OWB. ;)
Earth has a lot of things other folks might want... like the whole planet. And maybe these folks would like a few changes made, like more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and room for their way of life. - William S. Burroughs
 

Offline Fats

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Re: MorphOS ahead of AROS?
« Reply #50 on: April 03, 2012, 10:31:49 PM »
Quote from: Iggy;686845
MorphOS is polished enough to rely on and AROS is interesting, and even fun, but not reliable (sorry Staf).


NP, I think most AROS devs are well aware of the current shortcomings of AROS but I do think we have to potential to overcome a lot them quite fast.
It's just the old ethernal infighting in the amiga community that annoys me; and I have to admit this thread has been one of the less loaded once.

greets,
Staf.
Trust me...                                              I know what I\'m doing
 

Offline XDelusion

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Re: MorphOS ahead of AROS?
« Reply #51 on: April 03, 2012, 10:40:38 PM »
BOH... Now that's a game worth installing ArOS for!!!

I almost forgot to mention it. :)
« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 10:46:47 PM by XDelusion »
Earth has a lot of things other folks might want... like the whole planet. And maybe these folks would like a few changes made, like more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and room for their way of life. - William S. Burroughs
 

Offline OlafS3

Re: MorphOS ahead of AROS?
« Reply #52 on: April 03, 2012, 10:55:01 PM »
I work on my own linux hosted distribution. It is really cool to start Aros from KDE and it is surprising fast. I am looking forward to see Broadway X with integrated Linux Apps too.
 

Offline OlafS3

Re: MorphOS ahead of AROS?
« Reply #53 on: April 03, 2012, 10:58:46 PM »
I do not know if you understand me why I prefer Aros. For me it is most important that it is free. You can take and combine what you like. You can change or add functionality. You must not ask any person or group for permission. And it has a real dynamic. The more people think like you the faster development is. And of course you do not need to invest huge sums in new hardware or buy old and used hardware. You can use what you already have.

It is just fun :-) if all is already perfect is not important because you know it is only a matter of time. And you are a part of it...
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: MorphOS ahead of AROS?
« Reply #54 on: April 03, 2012, 11:45:45 PM »
Quote from: Fats;686862
NP, I think most AROS devs are well aware of the current shortcomings of AROS but I do think we have to potential to overcome a lot them quite fast.
It's just the old ethernal infighting in the amiga community that annoys me; and I have to admit this thread has been one of the less loaded once.

greets,
Staf.

Actually Staf, long term AROS may surpass all the other NG OS'.
It has the strength of a larger developer base and its open architecture.
Should a major OS4 developer burn out (or a few MorphOS developers) the other two NG OS' could potentially be devastated.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

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Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline zylesea

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Re: MorphOS ahead of AROS?
« Reply #55 on: April 03, 2012, 11:58:06 PM »
Quote from: Mazze;686743
Hi,

I've read several times from the blue smurf propaganda department that MorphOS is so way ahead of AROS. Care to elaborate?

Who cares what others say? Test it out yourself. A x86 is easy to grab, some PowerMac as well (if you happen to not like MorphOS dump it off again to ebay). AROS is freely available, MorphOS Demo as well. The good thing about AROS and MorphOS is that the hurdles to get a 1st hand experience are pretty low and nothing's better than a 1st hand experience.

Offline zylesea

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Re: MorphOS ahead of AROS?
« Reply #56 on: April 04, 2012, 12:00:57 AM »
Quote from: darkage;686783
I dont know what the fuss is over with MorphOS... Whats so special about it, reminds me of a Mac OS?


It take just 5 minutes to get a clue about MorphOS, i.e. read http://via.i-networx.de/wim.htm

Offline XDelusion

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Re: MorphOS ahead of AROS?
« Reply #57 on: April 04, 2012, 12:03:24 AM »
I'm eager to try out the upcoming Linux/AROS distro that is supposed to come with Wine.

Sounds like an interesting approach.
Earth has a lot of things other folks might want... like the whole planet. And maybe these folks would like a few changes made, like more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and room for their way of life. - William S. Burroughs
 

Offline Terminills

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Re: MorphOS ahead of AROS?
« Reply #58 on: April 04, 2012, 01:49:40 AM »
Quote from: zylesea;686873
Who cares what others say? Test it out yourself. A x86 is easy to grab, some PowerMac as well (if you happen to not like MorphOS dump it off again to ebay). AROS is freely available, MorphOS Demo as well. The good thing about AROS and MorphOS is that the hurdles to get a 1st hand experience are pretty low and nothing's better than a 1st hand experience.


lol I think Mazze knows that. ;)


@Mazze

Trouble maker.

As for the question.  My Morphos box is the perfect size to level my dryer :P  Other than that who cares.   I use them both I however prefer my AROS boxes even tho they aren't as polished.   To quote a friend of mine finished OS' bore me.
Support AROS sponsor a developer.

edited by mod: this has been addressed
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: MorphOS ahead of AROS?
« Reply #59 from previous page: April 04, 2012, 02:48:42 AM »
Quote from: Terminills;686891
lol I think Mazze knows that. ;)


@Mazze

Trouble maker.

As for the question.  My Morphos box is the perfect size to level my dryer :P  Other than that who cares.   I use them both I however prefer my AROS boxes even tho they aren't as polished.   To quote a friend of mine finished OS' bore me.

That's why I let you guys lure me in haiku!
But, then again, its also why Linux bugs me. Its never quite finished.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"