Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: Takers - One Woman's Opinion of the Amiga Mini  (Read 55286 times)

Description:

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Duce

  • Off to greener pastures
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 1699
    • Show only replies by Duce
    • http://amigabbs.blogspot.com/
Re: Takers - One Woman's Opinion of the Amiga Mini
« Reply #74 on: March 25, 2012, 02:59:01 PM »
I rarely defend the OS4 hardware offerings, because they are so expensive, but in a broader sense I will defend all the NG Amiga offerings.

1 - not all OS4 hardware is $2000.  On a good day, you could pick a SAM/OS4 system up on ebay for under $500, albeit used.  There are many flavors of AOS 4 PPC boards available, from the lowly SAM 440ep like I have, to the X1000.  Prie has always been a barrier of entry for AOS people, and I suspect it always will be unless they port the OS to PPC Mac's.

2 - We are never going to get past this pissing match of what individual people see as a "true Amiga".  We all have different views.  But I know one thing - I can take an old, legacy 68k Amiga program and put it on my SAM/AOS machine and it generally works unless it bangs hardware.  I can do the same with a MOS PPC Mac.  AROS has come a long way in running older Amiga programs without a hitch as well.

I cannot say that for commodity PC hardware in a prefab case with an "Amiga" etching on it that runs Linux, unless they are really going to pull a rabbit out of the hat at last minute, you're buying a PC running Linux.  If C-USA had come up with a way where I can simply click on a legacy Amiga program via desktop on their OS right out of the box, it's a PC to me.  A PC I could throw together with free UAE and the ROM's I already own for a fraction of the price.  I use what works for me, which lately is my SAM and a stripped down XP lite machine that boots directly into 3.1 via WinUAE.

Which one is more of a true Amiga?  In the most specific of terms and definitions, some people don't consider any machine without custom chips an Amiga.  Fair enough.

The original Amiga was revolutionary, not evolutionary.  Was something brand new, completely out of left field.  We will never see anything like that again, I suspect.  It's all about what works for you, I suppose.  Some people spend thousands of dollars building killer, superfast towerised A1200's.  Some buy cheap Mac's and run MorphOS.  Some buy the Acube boards and run OS 4.1.
Some just stick with with spare x86 PC's, running their choice of emulation solutions.  Some will certainly see the charm of Commodore USA's products, and they will purchase them.  I hope they are happy with their systems, sincerely - but I am also the first to point out the foibles in their specced builds, lol.  I have built my own systems for nearly 20 years, and wouldn't buy what they are offering, even at cost.

Shouting at the top of ones lungs that "THIS IS THE FUTURE" while trying to drive 500 watts worth of PC components with a 120 watt PSU is something I will gladly point out is a recipe for disaster.
 

Offline commodorejohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Posts: 3165
    • Show only replies by commodorejohn
    • http://www.commodorejohn.com
Re: Takers - One Woman's Opinion of the Amiga Mini
« Reply #75 on: March 25, 2012, 03:04:50 PM »
Quote from: Middleman;685267
I'm not affiliated with CUSA, but if I was its CEO I would apologise to you here....yes they handled that rather badly. If anything I would say just please don't judge Barry too hard.....he's a firm Commodorian for sure, just not a PR kind of guy....
Don't judge him? Don't judge him based on two years of observed public behavior? What the hell am I supposed to judge him on? If someone is consistently, observably a douche and a sleaze for two straight years, that's not an issue of "not a PR kind of guy," that's a track record. Even if we had any evidence to believe that he's a "firm Commodorian" (we don't,) everything he's said and done in the past two years has been ample indication not to trust him with anything, least of all my money.

Quote
Point taken.....the prices are rather high I agree I don't doubt that. But also, you need to remember that the reason why we now have much higher component costs compared to yesteryear is, first, we have inflation. From something costing $500 in 1985 will be around $980 today.
That's another load of shít. Computers in general are massively cheaper today than they were in 1985, inflation notwithstanding, and I can buy a perfectly good assortment of hardware at the Commodore 64's initial price, desktop or laptop. CUSA's machines aren't ludicrously expensive because of inflation; people have priced out equivalent-spec machines to the "Amiga Mini" and come up with a price tage of $900-1300. (Including the etching.) They're ludicrously expensive because Barry is adding massive markup in hopes that some dumbass will be stupid enough to order one.

Quote
That said, the closest we've had yet in recent years with this idea of 'computers for the masses not the classes' has been Apple. The current iPad is successful because it is actually following a Tramiel-style tactic with vertical integration of the manufacturing process. Apple can do this because it has its own plants. Having your own chip-fab plant goes a long way to maintaining costs in the long run, and Steve Jobs was well shrewd when he acquired PA Semi.
Uhh, no. Putting aside the issue that sourcing and rebadging ≠ vertical integration, Apple sells laptops-without-keyboards with a paltry amount of RAM and Flash storage up to less than half the capacity of the hard drive in my three-year-old netbook at prices you can buy a full laptop for, and their actual laptops for much more. That "computers for everyone" jazz is just marketing babble.

Quote
Well with the current prices of new components being produced, we're not going to expect miracles in terms of pricing. After all, Amiga IS a 20+ year old product....new stuff is bound to cost more and old stuff less....
Again, if we're talking commodity hardware, that's purest bullshít - the comparison between price and computing power today and 20 years ago is absolutely mind-blowing. And it's beside the point, anyway - whether or not their prices were justified, how would shelling out for things I don't want encourage a company to give me what I do want?

Quote
I know you're anxious but CUSA is still young, and I think giving it 2 years is still a little premature. As someone else said, you need to give them about 5 years to see whether they've succeeded (or not). But then again you are talking about the restart of a 58-year old brand with at least 40 years of business experience and manufacturing prowess behind it before it fell....it'll take CUSA I reckon a fair amount of time before they could get to their level...
Two years of douchebaggery, fast talk, and shoddy manufacturing isn't "a little premature," it's a God-damn tradition.
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline persia

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2006
  • Posts: 3753
    • Show only replies by persia
Re: Takers - One Woman's Opinion of the Amiga Mini
« Reply #76 on: March 25, 2012, 03:08:34 PM »
There is no one that will produce an "Amiga" that was like the Amigas of yore.  First because the market is different, computers are an appliance now, back then they were a novelty.  And second because the the technology has become more specialised and mature.  Nobody is going to knock out a killer graphics board in their basement, let alone a killer machine that is years ahead of the competition.  Apple could, but they won't because the slow leak of technology gives them an assured next generation as the release the current generation.

Basically what we are left with are two choices, stay with the past, and modest improvements of the past (aOS 4.x, mOS) or go with the designer label Amiga and Commodore.  

Actually their is a third choice, the new Commodore Amigas mean there is no future for Amiga as a unique and exceptional product and it's time to move on, providing a convenient exit point from the community.

Barry's decision to go to the mom and pop computer stores means at best a fragmented product of a thousand different configurations and specs.  And they will likely sell the product with Windows rather than a tarted up old version of Linux Mint.

I know Barry has dreams of copying Apple's legions of amateur software producers with his own software store, but he doesn't have a product that warrants a market, nor a unique and powerful development environment.

When I look at Berry of C=USA I am reminded more of Ron Popiel than Steve Jobs.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

What we\'re witnessing is the sad, lonely crowing of that last, doomed cock.
 

Offline commodorejohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Posts: 3165
    • Show only replies by commodorejohn
    • http://www.commodorejohn.com
Re: Takers - One Woman's Opinion of the Amiga Mini
« Reply #77 on: March 25, 2012, 03:12:49 PM »
Quote from: persia;685301
When I look at Berry of C=USA I am reminded more of Ron Popiel than Steve Jobs.
What a terrible thing to say about Ron Popeil...
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline warpdesign

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Feb 2008
  • Posts: 256
    • Show only replies by warpdesign
    • http://www.warpdesign.fr
Re: Takers - One Woman's Opinion of the Amiga Mini
« Reply #78 on: March 25, 2012, 03:17:51 PM »
Quote

But being truly different (even if only some geeky AOS way) should have some meaning to some people.

We didn't like the Amiga because it was "different". Actually it wasn't much different by then: most every personal computers were using the very same 68000 (Atari ST, Mac, most consoles,...). Other computers had custom chips as well, doing kinda the same things: blits, scrolls, sprites.

We liked the Amiga because it was more powerful than anything else: more colors, faster graphics, better sound,...

And add to that the quite advanced OS by then.

Now, producing a kinda different PPC motherboard that adds nothing at all more powerful than other computers has very little sense to me. And having some kind of underpowered Xena chip (which usage has yet to be demonstrated outside embed stuff) or a slightly modified PCIe Xorro port doesn't make it more Amiga than any standard x86/powerPC machine.

Seeing how fast the market moves and the money that's spent by the big companies like Nvidia, Intel,... I don't think it's possible to have anything more powerful than what they are doing, so what's the point of wasting resources doing it ?

The only interesting difference that can be made is in software. Or with (truely) Amiga-like hardware like the Natami: that can bring fun, and people...
 

Offline Tripitaka

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2005
  • Posts: 1307
    • Show only replies by Tripitaka
    • http://acidapple.com
Re: Takers - One Woman's Opinion of the Amiga Mini
« Reply #79 on: March 25, 2012, 03:26:29 PM »
Quote from: warpdesign;685289
Well, with their "Amiga" computers they already have created a community that's maybe 10-50 times the size of the war field you're calling "Amiga community".


Back it up big mouth! You say something like that I need to see proof. So do it, show me that CUSA have actually got a "community" that is at least 10 times the size of existing AmigaOS, AROS, and MOS user base. I'm getting real sick of people using made up figures to back up wild opinion that they put forward as fact. If your going to say something like that then let's see the numbers.
Falling into a dark and red rage.
 

Offline AmiDelf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2002
  • Posts: 691
    • Show only replies by AmiDelf
    • http://www.amitopiatv.com
Re: Takers - One Woman's Opinion of the Amiga Mini
« Reply #80 on: March 25, 2012, 03:48:21 PM »
I would comment that the person who wrote this, is a wise person. CUSA is making shame of Amiga. Its sad, how they just dont care about the community. CUSA could help AEON with production of AmigaOne X1000 instead, or making an PPC Amiga into the Amiga Mini box they have made. MacMini runs MorphOS nicely etc. To be able to run AmigaOS4 is great and refreshing.

"Amiga Will never Die! Never!"
I love and respect people which care! And not those with
a heart made of stone.
 

Offline Middleman

  • Lifetime Member
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Apr 2011
  • Posts: 78
    • Show only replies by Middleman
Re: Takers - One Woman's Opinion of the Amiga Mini
« Reply #81 on: March 25, 2012, 04:27:38 PM »
Quote from: AmiDelf;685310
I would comment that the person who wrote this, is a wise person. CUSA is making shame of Amiga. Its sad, how they just dont care about the community. CUSA could help AEON with production of AmigaOne X1000 instead, or making an PPC Amiga into the Amiga Mini box they have made. MacMini runs MorphOS nicely etc. To be able to run AmigaOS4 is great and refreshing.

"Amiga Will never Die! Never!"

Well I wouldn't put it that way....there is still light at the end of the tunnel...

It's not like Leo hasn't tried before.....he has. I remember speaking to him last year about how things were getting on, and he said he had been in touch with the relevant Amiga parties including Jerri Elsworth and Aeon to work on things. With Aeon there were certain issues that they came across which prevented them from going ahead using their boards, and that was to do with the yields that were coming out of the X1000 board manufacturing. Unfortunately for the numbers CUSA was requesting, they weren't consistent enough in terms of quality for 'modern day' public consumption level (where factories in Asia fare better in terms of yield), so CUSA was hesitant to go ahead with it. Small numbers Aeon was fine with, but larger numbers they encountered problems. It may be better now I don't know, but that's what I had heard...
 

Offline redfox

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2002
  • Posts: 882
  • Country: ca
    • Show only replies by redfox
Re: Takers - One Woman's Opinion of the Amiga Mini
« Reply #82 on: March 25, 2012, 04:29:04 PM »
Regarding original post ... Well said.
 

Offline Middleman

  • Lifetime Member
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Apr 2011
  • Posts: 78
    • Show only replies by Middleman
Re: Takers - One Woman's Opinion of the Amiga Mini
« Reply #83 on: March 25, 2012, 04:34:48 PM »
Quote from: redfox;685322
Regarding original post ... Well said.


Yes I agree she has a point...the original Amiga was a tough act to follow....and still is. Even Commodore themselves had a problem getting it replaced....think about that! :lol:
 

Offline swoslover

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Aug 2007
  • Posts: 243
    • Show only replies by swoslover
    • http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Relictronic-Boutique
Re: Takers - One Woman's Opinion of the Amiga Mini
« Reply #84 on: March 25, 2012, 05:00:06 PM »
Why the anonimity?

Is an internet forum not anonomous enough?

If a guy had written this there would have been far less interest.

For all that the CUSA machines can never satisfactory be called an Amiga until they come with an Amiga OS they have provided something concrete in the past and if they can somehow unite with say hyperion it could be quite exciting.
A1200
CD32
A4000
 

Offline Iggy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2009
  • Posts: 5348
    • Show only replies by Iggy
Re: Takers - One Woman's Opinion of the Amiga Mini
« Reply #85 on: March 25, 2012, 05:55:17 PM »
Quote from: AmiDelf;685310
I would comment that the person who wrote this, is a wise person. CUSA is making shame of Amiga. Its sad, how they just dont care about the community. CUSA could help AEON with production of AmigaOne X1000 instead, or making an PPC Amiga into the Amiga Mini box they have made. MacMini runs MorphOS nicely etc. To be able to run AmigaOS4 is great and refreshing.

"Amiga Will never Die! Never!"

Well there is a definite split between those of us who are using PPC based NG OS' and the X86 camp.
Obviously, AROS would run on the new "Amiga Mini". And many of you have pushed for X86 ports of OS4 and MorphOS (and have been told that the former isn't happening and the latter isn't happening soon).
I don't think CUSA's market would be very large with a PPC based system.
Barry's just trying to make money.
I don't think that our community factors into his equations significantly.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline dammy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2002
  • Posts: 2828
    • Show only replies by dammy
Re: Takers - Cecilia's? Opinion of the Amiga Mini
« Reply #86 on: March 25, 2012, 05:58:30 PM »
Quote from: swoslover;685329
Why the anonimity?

Is an internet forum not anonomous enough?


It's not like it's hard to guess who it is and she hasn't been friendly to C=USA for a long period of time, if ever.  If she had posted it under her name, then it would have been a normal anti C=USA poster rant. By going as anonymous, the (Amiga.org management) give her a possible air of credibility that she wouldn't get under her normal Amiga Community nick.
Dammy

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Arix-OS/414578091930728
Unless otherwise noted, I speak only for myself.
 

Offline Iggy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2009
  • Posts: 5348
    • Show only replies by Iggy
Re: Takers - Cecilia's? Opinion of the Amiga Mini
« Reply #87 on: March 25, 2012, 06:04:10 PM »
@ Dammy

We already know your opinion.
In the past, I've been willing to give Barry the benefit of the doubt.
But Mint Linux is not an Amiga operating system.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline commodorejohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Posts: 3165
    • Show only replies by commodorejohn
    • http://www.commodorejohn.com
Re: Takers - One Woman's Opinion of the Amiga Mini
« Reply #88 on: March 25, 2012, 06:09:12 PM »
Quote from: Middleman;685321
It's not like Leo hasn't tried before.....he has. I remember speaking to him last year about how things were getting on, and he said he had been in touch with the relevant Amiga parties including Jerri Elsworth and Aeon to work on things.
Yes, they did say they had talked with Jerri - evidently nothing ever came of that (assuming "we talked with her" doesn't simply mean "we sent off an email and want to make that sound grandiose.") Leo is...better than Barry, at least, but although he at least understands that maybe alienating half the Amiga community isn't a good thing, he's merely running damage control for all the stupid things Barry says and does. Ultimately he's stuck playing Information Minister to Barry's banana-dictatorship antics; even if he does care for the community, it's not like he can actually achieve anything working for a guy who expressly doesn't give a damn.

Quote from: swoslover;685329
Why the anonimity?

Is an internet forum not anonomous enough?
Given some of the reactions, I presume the OP simply didn't feel like dealing with all the "OMG A GIRL ON THE AMIGA FORUMS" posts in person...
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline smerf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 1666
    • Show only replies by smerf
Re: Takers - One Woman's Opinion of the Amiga Mini
« Reply #89 from previous page: March 25, 2012, 06:11:18 PM »
Quote from: Tripitaka;685308
Back it up big mouth! You say something like that I need to see proof. So do it, show me that CUSA have actually got a "community" that is at least 10 times the size of existing AmigaOS, AROS, and MOS user base. I'm getting real sick of people using made up figures to back up wild opinion that they put forward as fact. If your going to say something like that then let's see the numbers.


Hi,

@Tripitaka,

Don't go getting your panties in a tightwad, does it really, really matter. Yes we are all sad about what happened to Amiga, but we have to look at things with a realistic view. The sad truth is, that maybe back in 1992 we could of had the Amiga pulled out, but today with everything modern day computers can do, there is hardly any new innovation to bring out. I mean my gosh, my son just bought a 3D monitor with a couple of 3D games, the games just jump out at you, and yes the PC world is now going 3D gaming, with sound so realistic that I can hear the noisy guy trying to sneak up behind me trying to cut my throat. I turn and look and get ready to fight, and the 3D knife that swings at me makes me want to jumpback in fear, it is that realistic. So tell me exactly what you want from the new Amiga. I mean for gosh sakes I just altered my dogs head with a pancake on it in about 5 minutes, using Linux open source paint programs. The Amiga at one time was the leader in high tech computers, how long do you think it will take MorphOS, AROS, Natami, etc. to get up to where the Amiga was, then think "How long will it take to catch up to where Linux is at today. We aren't even talking about Windows with it's professional software or Macs with its professional software.

So just maybe CUSA's Linux/Amiga pack isn't really that bad, it gives you a pretty up to date Linux software package with the ability to use Amiga software.

I won't buy one basically because I am computer literate in about several systems, old and new, and my computers have the same thing CUSA is doing and you know the average Joe out there who dropped Amiga and C64 years ago just might buy it for the memories of back then, but wouldn't buy a new Amgia today because of his doubt about where it will go and who is supporting it.

smerf

smerf
I have no idea what your talking about, so here is a doggy with a small pancake on his head.

MorphOS is a MAC done a little better