dnetc benchmarks

[Rodomoc]

Wow, my 4 year old budget amithlon box, running an emulated 68k cpu gets better rc5-72 results than A1X1000. Didnt expect that. I'll have to try the other benchmarks floating around and see how they compare.

I was wondering when this one was going to come up :laugh1:. It is possible to run more modern x86 boards now with the new kernel and its drivers. Not a perfect Amiga solution but Amithlon is still a damn interesting concept even after all these years. I need to get that 3Ghz Xeon cranked up in this kernel4 capable Asus board I have. At any rate, it would be interesting to see some similar performance comparisons (if possible) using Amithlon.

As for the published performance data in this thread, it is clear what will happen on my end. And that is registering a nice G4 laptop when 3.0 comes out. Power, portability, stability. I'm in on that deal. I see complaints about old Mac garbage, etc... Well that old garbage is still good, cheap, and running well against other PPC by the looks of it. The selection of Mac hardware by MOS developers was obviously a shrewd one. The resulting amount of supported hardware should speak for itself. And it will only get better. If Amiga developers were only 1/2 as shrewd, they would port over to Mac as soon as possible.

Regarding the new X1000 board, well....'best of luck to ya'.

[klx300r]

.....Some people have an aversion to any Apple products,...."Apple phobia"....

cough...raises hand:cool:

[TheDaddy]

All those ppl who want to have the fastest Amiga ever. While I am not a big fan of OS4 myself even I would have considered an X1000 if it were really fast and giving me a big computing power benefit over what  have already. Well, it doesn't. I think that's highly interesting and valuable information. Saves me $3000 at the end of the day.

I think people who want the fastest Amiga ever will still buy it because as you say it is the fastest Amiga ever and a few seconds difference here and there won't change their mind.

So you are really saying that because the X1000 looks like it "might" be slightly slower than a mac you won't be buying it? Also again this makes no sense as you'll only be using it to run OS4 so at this precise moment it's the fastest OS4 machine, if you want the fastest MOS machine you get a mac.

[zylesea]

So you are really saying that because the X1000 looks like it "might" be slightly slower than a mac you won't be buying it? Also again this makes no sense as you'll only be using it to run OS4 so at this precise moment it's the fastest OS4 machine, if you want the fastest MOS machine you get a mac.

No. It's the other way around. Because the X1000 is not significantly faster than what I have already it it totally pointless and uninteresting for me.
If it were significantly faster I might have considered one machine. But with those results - no way!

[spirantho]

If AmigaOS 4 ever gets ported to the Mac, it will be doomed to stay on old hardware forever, as the market for new machines would be obliterated- which is exactly what they do not want.
AmigaOS on Mac would be a big mistake IMHO. We should be encouraging new AOS capable machines, not destroying them.

[TheDaddy]

No. It's the other way around. Because the X1000 is not significantly faster than what I have already it it totally pointless and uninteresting for me.
If it were significantly faster I might have considered one machine. But with those results - no way!

What have you got?

[TheDaddy]

If AmigaOS 4 ever gets ported to the Mac, it will be doomed to stay on old hardware forever, as the market for new machines would be obliterated- which is exactly what they do not want.
AmigaOS on Mac would be a big mistake IMHO. We should be encouraging new AOS capable machines, not destroying them.

As they say +1

[kas1e]

@TheDaddy

Well, to answer on questin what i will do with Truth, i can say you the whol story:

When x1000 was announcement with it madness price, i was somehow sure, that because of that price, it will kick all the maconitoshes right in the ass, and, because of that i found logical to build new platforms, in compare with make a port to good old macs.

Now, because of benchmarks, i see, that Macs are even faster in almost all the areas, except the ram speed area. So, what i will do with that truth when i know that overpriced HW which will run amigaos4, are slower than macintosh with morphos ? I will do that: when i will for real feel that i want something new and cool, i will think twice to buy a mac with morphos, or x1000 with aos4.

Sure, x1000 still interesting and fast, and it give you ability to run os4 and put radeonhd in it (let's skip all those coming soon smp , xena/xorro and co) , but in current stage, with comparing by benchmarks with tests, the price for the x1000 can be something like 1800-2000usd, and then, it can be adequate to the speed: i.e. because its new hw, because its one of fastetst with ppc cpu/os is amiga world, and because you can put any cards in it.  

PS. Did anyone want to sale x1000 mb + cpu for 1000$ ? I will be intersted in

[zylesea]

What have you got?

Among other hardware there is a Mac mini G4 1500, a Powerbook 1.67 is on the shopping list. And to avoid your next respond "but this s not Amiga". Indeed it is not called Amiga and OS4 doesn't run on it. But MorphOS. Well and if you refuse to see why MorphOS s amigaish as OS4 except the tademark and some antique code snippets I give you a link to my statemet what MorphOS is: http://via.i-networx.de/wim.htm

[TheDaddy]

@kas1e

>>When x1000 was announcement with it madness price, i was somehow sure, that because of that price, it will kick all the maconitoshes right in the ass

As you know that is not always the case. See supercars for example. There are some costing £1.5 million and they are not that much faster than a £150,000 supercar. It costs so much because the production is in small quantities (I know this based on personal experience). Surely it could have been cheaper I would have not chosen Xena, Xorro etc...to keep the price down and maybe a different cpu but it's still remains a good board. Maybe one day someone will harness the "power" of Xorro who knows.

>>compare with make a port to good old macs.

But this is a mistake I think. You are comparing just that, old macs, which aren't produced any more running a different OS. Weird!

>>Now, because of benchmarks, i see, that Macs are even faster in almost all the areas, except the ram speed area. So, what i will do with that truth when i know that overpriced HW which will run amigaos4, are slower than macintosh with morphos ? I will do that: when i will for real feel that i want something new and cool, i will think twice to buy a mac with morphos, or x1000 with aos4.

But you can say that of everything else. If you REALLY want to run OS4 on the fastest hardware then at the moment the X1000 is the fastest hardware, if you want to run MOS then an old mac G4 will do the job. It depends on what you want to run.
I enjoy using OS4 so for me the X1000 IS the fastest machine which will guarantee the fastest OS4 results.
If ACube came out with a mid solution at a good price then I'd buy that. If they decided to go faster than the X1000 then as an OS4 user I'd buy that.

I don't spend time looking at OSX or Win 7 or Linux and thinking: "oh look how fast they run on their quad cpus" it's a waste of time, they are faster in some areas but they are not OS4, I hope it's clear. If I were a MOS user I'd look at the fastest mac G4 solution, I wouldn't care less about the X1000 as it doesn't run MOS unless I wanted to do some child play taunting the "opposition", na na na na na!

Also look at how fast it sold out. Someone is interested in it and why? To run OS 4 and Debian Linux in dual boot. Trevor says a new batch is going to be produced soon, I bet it'll sell fast, no matter how many threads and topics are raised about it being slower than an old mac. Guaranteed.

If one can afford it and want OS4 and Linux then save the cash and buy it otherwise it's just a sign that we are here to discredit a product for the hell of it.

[TheDaddy]

Among other hardware there is a Mac mini G4 1500, a Powerbook 1.67 is on the shopping list. And to avoid your next respond "but this s not Amiga". Indeed it is not called Amiga and OS4 doesn't run on it. But MorphOS. Well and if you refuse to see why MorphOS s amigaish as OS4 except the tademark and some antique code snippets I give you a link to my statemet what MorphOS is: http://via.i-networx.de/wim.htm

I rest my case...

[itix]

If AmigaOS 4 ever gets ported to the Mac, it will be doomed to stay on old hardware forever, as the market for new machines would be obliterated- which is exactly what they do not want.
AmigaOS on Mac would be a big mistake IMHO. We should be encouraging new AOS capable machines, not destroying them.

In my opinion it is good that OS4 is hardware focused rather than software focused. More they invest money to new hardware designs more happier I get. This is Win-Win to me, and to you

[kas1e]

@TheDaddy

If one can afford it and want OS4 and Linux then save the cash and buy it otherwise it's just a sign that we are here to discredit a product for the hell of it.

Imho no. We all there in benchmark threads not because we want discredit or credit any kind of product. I, as end user not so care in credits or discredits. We just comparing the HW available for aos4 and for mos. There is nothing bad or wrong to say truth if something is slow, the same as there is nothing bad or wrong to say truth if something is fast.

For now its clear, that the real pluse of x1000 : the speed of working with memory. No one hide it, and everyone found it good. But in other areas its on the same level as old macs (sometime a bit better, like with case of mplayer, sometime worse, like in case with lames and dcnet benchs).

Potential users should know the truth. That all about it. Nothing about discredit or credit. Pure technical interest in case of found the truth and so everyone should know what faster, what slower, where, what pluses and minuses, to make the final and pragmatic decission when user will in interest to make a choice.

[antikk]

And the truth is quite easy. The x1000 is the fastest AmigaOs machine there is. That wasn't hard. :afro:
 

Potential users should know the truth. That all about it. Nothing about discredit or credit. Pure technical interest in case of found the truth and so everyone should know what faster, what slower, where, what pluses and minuses, to make the final and pragmatic decission when user will in interest to make a choice.

[Tripitaka]

The amount of available used G4 Mac computers that are still in "working order" is in the millions, and far more by orders of magnitude than will ever be produced by ACube, or A-Eon, or anyone else, since producing PPC desktop motherboards from anyone else is about non-existent these days.  Also, the niche of Amiga OS4 users has great potential to grow several times larger than it currently is today, under the right circumstances.  Will it happen?  I don't know, but there certainly were hundreds of thousands of Amiga users in the not too distant past that are potential new users for the niche OS4 community of today and tomorrow.  Why not do everything possible to try to get more of them to return?

Huh?  If you want people to spend money to return to using any kind of Amiga experience then the rules of giving them the most for their money still apply.  There are some that want only new computers, there are some that hate Apple and will never buy any of it, and then there are the rest that buying a used G4 Mac makes perfect sense to run OS4 on and if you want to have as many OS4 users as possible, you should try to satisfy all of the three groups and specially the largest of the three groups, which is probably the group that wants the best performance per dollar/pound/euro and would be interested in buying OS4.x for a G4 Mac computer.

Not true, even Hyperion has ported to used G4 computer AFTER they had already ported OS4 to the SAM440ep.  IIRC, the port to the Peg2 came after the port to the SAM440ep.  There is no valid reason to not port OS4.x to used G4 Mac computers that I can see.  It will only result in more sales for Hyperion and more OS4 users in total.

It could hurt ACube SAM sales and might hurt A-Eon's sales of the X1000 (but I doubt it because by the time Hyperion could finish a port of OS4 to any G4 Mac model, I doubt A-Eon will still be producing X1000's due to the cost and difficulty in obtaining PA6T CPU's, but I could be wrong).

What is more important to the OS4 users, having more fast and cheap hardware to tempt new users and developers with to join the party, or supporting ACube & A-Eon by only having the option to use OS4 on more expensive custom hardware?

I want to support OS4 hardware companies too, but not at the expense of limiting the community in it's attempt to gain more users and developers.

Maybe after a port to used G4 Mac models the community as a whole could concentrate more on getting more developers and software and worry less about what the future of OS4 hardware is for a while (but still keep exploring all different possibilities for future hardware to move to when all existing hardware starts to fail.  I plan on using my X1000 for the next 20 years:) )

Edit:  After further thought, my request for Hyperion to port OS4 to G4 Mac hardware will surely hurt A-Eon's future chances for any other hardware designs.  I really like Trevor and want him to succeed, but I still think the best thing for the OS4 users and developers would be to provide a port of OS4 to one or more G4 Mac models.  So, who does Hyperion support, the users, or the hardware designers/suppliers?  Tough choice.

Since I have already purchased my X1000, it is easy for me to suggest that the porting to G4 Macs is the better choice, now that I have all that I need for the next many years.  Others might resent this idea as they want their own X1000, or some later new design, and so do not want Hyperion to port OS4 to any G4 Mac's if that means that future OS4 custom hardware might then get canceled.

I know, I know, and yes I 've heard all those opinions before. I also agree with what you are saying. So now why don't you go to the bank and argue for a loan to finance your niche product versus a theoretically not niche product and see which one you can get the finance for. Now please don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying that anything you've said is wrong, your speaking good common sense and as I've said I do honestly agree but that is not how the cold heart of investment works. OS4 on a machine that someone else made, that is no longer manufactured, has about as much chance of outside founding as a company making replacement hands for vintage action man or GI Joe figures, they will see the product as a dead product and hence a financial dead end for them. Sadly you have to think like these people to understand the choices Hyperion made.

If it was my choice I would gave ported to ARM at the first chance I had and been done with it. That of course is a whole new story and it wasn't my decision to make so it didn't go that way.

Of course, MOS will be faced with having to break out of only supporting old powerpc hardware at some point too. Those old Macs will only last for so long.

[Tripitaka]

Well, nothing new to see here, MorphOS still crushes AmigaOS4 in this department. In fact, the MPlayer video decoding benchmark deliberately excluded displaying the decoded video, as this would have seriously crippled the X1000 result (the Radeon HD driver doesn't yet support overlay).

True for now, but in theory the X1000 could take a brand new PCIE card providing someone writes the drivers for it.