dnetc benchmarks

[Iggy]

@Iggy

>>Pegasos I and II.
>>Perhaps you mean there is no new MorphOS specific machine available

Yes that is what I meant.

>>And my 3.6 GHz Quad core PC (while slower then yours) would also be faster, but that isn't the point.

It is exactly the point. We are comparing different products designed for different Operating Systems, and there are at least three threads which have been started trying to underline exactly what I said above.
So I am saying MOS is good and OS4 is crap, old Apple machine is better than new X1000, because this is exactly what these threads are about.

Ah, gotcha.
While I'm impressed with the X1000, I don't understand the logic in producing it.
Zylesea, myself, and other looked into current PPCs awhile ago and came to a similar conclusion.
While they're attractive products, the cost of producing a small run of PPC based systems is way too high (believe it or not, I don't think Aeon is overpricing their system - it really cost a lot to produce).

So when the MOS development team decided to support Macs, I shelved the PPC projects.

I doesn't make sense to rely on expensive custom hardware when existing low cost hardware (that can perform as well) is available.

The funny thing is, I was talking to Varisys about an MPC8641/8640 based board with an ATI SB600 Southbridge before it was announced that they had designed the X1000 (which uses the same Southbridge).

[Iggy]

Can you provide a link to that information? $500 for a CPU (particularly one designed for embedded systems) is farkin' ridiculous, that's what P3s cost new in 1999. Hope they didn't pay that kind of cash for all the parts...

I wouldn't know.

I got mine free
Freescale, like Motorola before them, has great developer support.
And I don't think that, in volume, the processors would be that expensive.

[kas1e]

@TheDaddy

So I am saying MOS is good and OS4 is crap, old Apple machine is better than new X1000, because this is exactly what these threads are about.

Imho you are wrong, as all that threads about founding of truth. If used and old macs can be faster in some areas than x1000, then why not say that ? We should know truth, and i very intersting in truth.

As you can see, on some benchmarks (expectually memory ones), x1000 are cleary faster, and no one tryint to hide that details, everything just in sake of truth, to know, if it better than used macs, or not. So  users will known what they will get, and they can think what will be better for them and in terms of speed, and in terms of price.

To add, i personally was in hope, that x1000 for sure will be better in all aspects in compare with the most faster macintosh (i remember all that hype about how cool and superios new cpu in x1000 will be), but seems by some reassons the only one benefits of the x1000 : speed of RAM. In others, its about the same as macmini 1.5/powermac1.8.

Its all just forces by results that x1000 in other tests on the same level (or even slower, except RAM speed) than macs, but if that truth, then what can we do with that ?

[pampers]

@TheDaddy


Imho you are wrong, as all that threads about founding of truth. If used and old macs can be faster in some areas than x1000, then why not say that ? We should know truth, and i very intersting in truth.

As you can see, on some benchmarks (expectually memory ones), x1000 are cleary faster, and no one tryint to hide that details, everything just in sake of truth, to know, if it better than used macs, or not. So  users will known what they will get, and they can think what will be better for them and in terms of speed, and in terms of price.

Good point. There is no fake or lie in this benchmarks. I thing most 'sensitive' ppl from whatever blue or red camp are takin' it too serious.

There is new Amiga related hardware, amigans ALWAYS were about benchmarking - since I remember so keep our tradition going If someone is mad that he spent 3k USD and his machine is sometimes slowe than old mac - sorry to hear that. If some one spent 3k USD and he doesn't give a **** that his machine is slower sometimes than old mac - fair play to him, he doesn't have to care.

Anyway - for all new X1000 owners - congrats

[Iggy]

Good points.

If I had any sense, I wouldn't have spent twice as much for my Mac CPU card as I did for my Phenom II X4 (which is more then twice as fast and has four times as many cores).

Who said we were sane?

If you can afford (and justify the purchase) of an X000, more power to you.

Somehow, I still feel more comfortable with that choice then AROS or WinUAE.

And, btw, you're not plugging a Radeon HD4650 into an old Mac (even if you could, there's no BIOS support).

[zylesea]

Can you provide a link to that information? $500 for a CPU (particularly one designed for embedded systems) is farkin' ridiculous, that's what P3s cost new in 1999. Hope they didn't pay that kind of cash for all the parts...

I quote from the exclusive interview with Trevor Dickinson from http://amigatronics.wordpress.com/2011/04/08/exclusive-to-amigatronics-28-questions-and-28-answers-with-trevor-dickinson-a-eon/

12.
What do you think is the solution for a market so little as Amiga? In my opinion, the price of AmigaOneX1000 could be reduced and that could help Amiga to grow faster again. Don´t you think so?

Unfortunately no.  The AmigaOne X1000 is based on the PA Semi CPU.  This component alone costs $500 and when you add in development costs and factor in the high cost of low volume manufacturing there is no way to reduce the sales price for the Amiga market. Also see my answer to question 11.

$500 for a PA6T.

[Iggy]

I quote from the exclusive interview with Trevor Dickinson from http://amigatronics.wordpress.com/2011/04/08/exclusive-to-amigatronics-28-questions-and-28-answers-with-trevor-dickinson-a-eon/

$500 for a PA6T.

Absolutely!
You're not going to get a good price buying a few hundred processors.

10,000, maybe.

[commodorejohn]

Yikes...

[TheDaddy]

:Iggy

>>While I'm impressed with the X1000, I don't understand the logic in producing it.

The logic is in Trevor's head. It's his money, his dream to create a new machine which would run OS4. I can't fault him for that, I have invested thousands of pounds during the last few years in a project that makes no sense at all and gives no economic returns. It's one of those things. I can't fault him for that.

[wawrzon]

no, i cant fault him either. but as long as logic behind that is only within his head, none is going to drag me behind such a project. anyway, daddy, i dont think you will be ever able to afford this piece, as you always are complaining about your bad finances, then all your argument must be taken with a benefit of doubt, im afraid.

[takemehomegrandma]

Plus Efika5200B. A shame it came with too little RAM and such a slow ide. But still a nice tiny board for little money ($99) a few years ago.

True, but to be fair, the Efika 5200B was merely one step olong the way towards what later became LimePC...

[amigadave]

:Iggy

>>While I'm impressed with the X1000, I don't understand the logic in producing it.

The logic is in Trevor's head. It's his money, his dream to create a new machine which would run OS4. I can't fault him for that, I have invested thousands of pounds during the last few years in a project that makes no sense at all and gives no economic returns. It's one of those things. I can't fault him for that.

Since Trevor did not choose any of the hardware components for the X1000 and left it up to Hyperion and the OS4 developers to choose what they wanted (plus what ever the Varisys engineers talked them into adding), I don't see how anyone can fault Trevor for anything.

Maybe they can fault him for not getting more opinions before jumping in with both feet as the saying goes, but I applaud Trevor for sticking with this project and seeing it through to it's successful production and sales.  It must have been very clear to him early in the process that he was never going to make a profit from the project, and would not even break even and recoup his $200,000+ investment from the number of sales that will eventually be produced from the X1000.  Still, with all of this going on, he retains his enthusiasm and is moving forward exploring new designs and possibilities for producing even more new hardware to run OS4 on and possibly AROS PPC and MorphOS too.  My hat remains off to Trevor!

With all the attention being given to benchmarks (mostly by people that admittedly would never be interested in buying an X1000), it will be interesting to see how fast the next production run of X1000 computers sells out.  I believe the First Contact production run sold out in less than 36 hours, which was amazing.

It would be nice to see some engineer, or software guy from Varisys comment on the benchmarks being reported for the X1000.  They must have done some benchmark testing of their own during the testing phase of this system.

[TheDaddy]

@kas1e

>>Imho you are wrong

In my opinion I am not.

>>as all that threads about founding of truth. If used and old macs can be faster in some areas than x1000, then why not say that ? We should know truth, and i very intersting in truth.

Truth? How are you going to prove the truth? Can an old mac run OS4? No. It's like for like. But even IF you found the truth what would you do with it? Fry it with bacon? It still makes no sense to find out that the X1000 is a couple of seconds slower than a mac mini, at the end of the day who the hell cares? Surely not the people who are going to buy the machine to run OS4.

Because the X1000 was created to run OS4 and to OS4 users it is the fastest machine the can get, that is the real substance of it all. I can't run OS4 on a mac so I don't give a damn about the PPC Mac I have in the garage gathering dust. If I could run on it and it was faster than the X1000 then obviously I'd prefer using a faster machine. But here we are proposing benchmarks which have nothing to do with OS4 and I run OS4. I hope it's clear.

Answer me this:

I run OS4 on a SAM440ep and it's quite satisfying and fun to use and it's the slowest one (666MHz).
I'd like more power, my choices are:

SAM460ex and X1000 which without any doubt will double, if not more, the speed and the experience of OS4.

Can I run OS4 on "faster" machines?

Me coming from a SAM440ep. Answer? No, end of story.

[TheDaddy]

no, i cant fault him either. but as long as logic behind that is only within his head, none is going to drag me behind such a project. anyway, daddy, i dont think you will be ever able to afford this piece, as you always are complaining about your bad finances, then all your argument must be taken with a benefit of doubt, im afraid.

I don't complain about my bad finances, who told you that? My bank manager? I just say that to carry on with my projects I have to sell stuff on ebay, something completely different.
I have bought a SAM440ep when it was £550 and a SAM440 Flex at £700 and planning on getting a SAM460ex and a X1000. I also bought several expanded Amigas, 1200 PPC with Mediators etc..etc...
So you score no point there I am afraid...
Good try though...

[TheDaddy]

@amigadave


Exactly. I totally I agree with you. This is an OS4 machine, for OS4 users is the DREAM machine, like the A4000 was for A500 users.
This is what people running these benchmark threads fail or pretend to understand.

I can't care less if an old Apple G4 runs circles around the X1000 and the 460ex, I can't run OS4 on the mac. I have a PPC 1.8GHz iMac in the garage, been there 12-18 months?

If I could run OS4 on it then brilliant, but I can't so the obvious choice is the 460ex or X1000, period.

[amigadave]

@kas1e

Because the X1000 was created to run OS4 and to OS4 users it is the fastest machine the can get, that is the real substance of it all. I can't run OS4 on a mac so I don't give a damn about the PPC Mac I have in the garage gathering dust. If I could run on it and it was faster than the X1000 then obviously I'd prefer using a faster machine. But here we are proposing benchmarks which have nothing to do with OS4 and I run OS4. I hope it's clear.

The only relevance I can see in these tests is that they raise the old question "why did Hyperion abandon porting OS4 to the G4 MacMini (and then other G4 Mac hardware like MorphOS did) and provide OS4 users with cheap, easily found systems to run OS4 on?"  It can't be because MorphOS was already going down that path, as after the decision to not support the G4 MacMini was announced, support for the Peg2 was released.

I am happy that I have purchased my X1000 and it will arrive next week, but there are many OS4 users (and probably potential OS4 users too) that cannot afford an X1000 and might not be able to afford a SAM that could easily afford a G4 MacMini, or other G4 Mac hardware, if only Hyperion would port OS4 to such hardware.

I know that the soon to be released Netbook will fill the low price OS4 problem with hardware, but it will probably be as slow, or slower than the current SAM hardware and can't compete with the power of the used G4 Mac's.

So, Hyperion, please reconsider porting OS4 to G4 Mac systems.  It can only help grow your user base and increase your sales of OS4.  More users means the possibility of more developers too.  Please port OS4 to G4 Mac hardware for people that can't afford to buy new OS4 hardware but want the speed shown in the benchmarks being presented in these many threads.