Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community

[wawrzon]

Come begging to make stuff at dead costs?  No one comes begging to make a new product at dead costs.   Haters have to hate, I suppose.  That is one hell of a deal they offered you all, and you can't come up with 500  votes to call their hand?

you were bashing this or better kind of deals around here long enough, do i have to hint yet? so why are you suprised if now cusa proposition is met with scepticism, even if this is your prefference. if they want to make some product addressing this community then they may want to go ahead and show off as they did with the 64 replica.

[CritAnime]

Why is a company like Commodore USA so needy for 500 people to invest in their little project. Surely if they were in the great position they claim to be in they wouldnt need that.

[Tripitaka]

Why is a company like Commodore USA so needy for 500 people to invest in their little project. Surely if they were in the great position they claim to be in they wouldnt need that.

And that of course, is the golden question.

Honestly Dammy, the best thing CUSA could do now is sell on the Amiga name to Hyperion and make Commodore PCs to their hearts content. At least that would save them some hate mail.

[vonshep]

This post is a joke. Seriously, c'mon!

What does the Amiga community want? You shouldn't even have to ask if you care enough to read these forums.

What we want is a new Amiga. Not a bunch of empty promises. Make a new Amiga, be innovative about it like the original was, make the price reasonable, and put it on the market. Then we'll buy into it.... maybe.

Don't ask 500 members to financially support your joke of a company. That's your responsibility, not ours. We are doing just fine without you. You want to change that? Then get busy and make a new Amiga that we'll want to buy.

[commodorejohn]

Oh so thats what this is about, put this out there so you can blame the community for cusa's failures? After saying we're not their target market then come begging for pre-orders then blame the community when its more BULL**** from cusa and nothing happens.

A-yup. Make an offer you know you won't be called upon to fulfill, and then you can act like everybody else is the *******...

[persia]

After careful observation it would have become apparent that the only way for C=USA to win would be to give the community what it wants.  This would cause the community to collectively spit the dummy and send it off in 30 directions at once.  Just like Tito's Yugoslavia we were united in collective hate of of a common enemy.  Remove the enemy and we would immediately start attacking one another.

This community deserve Amiga branded generic PCs...

[dammy]

you were bashing this or better kind of deals around here long enough, do i have to hint yet? so why are you suprised if now cusa proposition is met with scepticism, even if this is your prefference. if they want to make some product addressing this community then they may want to go ahead and show off as they did with the 64 replica.

They do have plans for their Commodore Amiga series.  This isn't about what C=USA wanted, this is about offering the online Amiga Community a chance to get something they wanted at dead cost.

[commodorejohn]

They do have plans for their Commodore Amiga series.

Would those be the $25,000 workstations built from commodity parts by a company nobody's heard of with zero reputation for end-user support? Yeah, good luck with that.

[dammy]

Why is a company like Commodore USA so needy for 500 people to invest in their little project. Surely if they were in the great position they claim to be in they wouldnt need that.

You have it reversed.  This is not C=USA's little project, this is offering the online Amiga Community a chance to get projects done at dead costs that online Amiga Community wanted.  You don't want the chance of buying something that the majority of the online Amiga Community wanted at dead cost, you most certainly don't have to do a thing.  I find it kinda funny that those who are most vocal on these threads are the most likely to never to participate and just want to throw dung around in a hate fest.

[dammy]

And that of course, is the golden question.

Honestly Dammy, the best thing CUSA could do now is sell on the Amiga name to Hyperion and make Commodore PCs to their hearts content. At least that would save them some hate mail.

Not at all.  The best thing for C=USA is to ignore the haters and continue on.  There is no reason to yield to a bunch of online haters that total to less then a hundred people.   This offer is a prime example that the haters will never be satisfied and should be ignored entirely because they will always spew their hatred regardless what is done for the online Amiga Community.

[CritAnime]

You have it reversed.  This is not C=USA's little project, this is offering the online Amiga Community a chance to get projects done at dead costs that online Amiga Community wanted.  You don't want the chance of buying something that the majority of the online Amiga Community wanted at dead cost, you most certainly don't have to do a thing.  I find it kinda funny that those who are most vocal on these threads are the most likely to never to participate and just want to throw dung around in a hate fest.

Dammy lets get this straight. IF Commodore USA where to produce a product that did everything they promised with the communities and IF it was reasonably priced then not only would I hold my hand up and say sorry but I would probably invest in one. But I don't have loads of money laying spare to throw into a escrow for six months for a product that is not even off the drawing board. Once CUSA make their mind up on how much these things are gonna cost then maybe people would be willing to put the money in. But saying 500 people need to put an, as so far, undisclosed amount of money into a random escrow on pure faith to start the project, something that is lacking with CUSA especially when you come along basically calling the community in large cowards because we are not willing to do it, is a bit much.

So again if CUSA are in such a good position to provide these service to the community can they not do like they did with the C64X and produce the machines, say a batch of 500, and then sell them "at cost" to the first 500 people who buy them. Seems to me thats a more reasonable offer.

[dammy]

This post is a joke. Seriously, c'mon!

What does the Amiga community want? You shouldn't even have to ask if you care enough to read these forums.

Perhaps what is what the online Amiga Community is willing to actually buy is in serious doubt.   Look at the A1X1K and see if anyone thinks this is going to be a profitable venture for A-EON.

What we want is a new Amiga. Not a bunch of empty promises. Make a new Amiga, be innovative about it like the original was, make the price reasonable, and put it on the market. Then we'll buy into it.... maybe.

That's really encouraging for a few hundred possible sales.

Don't ask 500 members to financially support your joke of a company. That's your responsibility, not ours.

That is where you have it wrong, the 500 people are going to be supporting the Amiga Community since C=USA is doing this all at dead costs.  You act like C=USA is going to be making a profit off those 500 sales, they are not.  They are offering this deal as a reach out to the online Amiga Community as a peace offering, and it seems their hands are getting slapped for their effort.  The online Amiga Community wants something, whines about something, and then given the chance to get it, at dead cost, they piss all over the person offering them a hell of a deal.

We are doing just fine without you. You want to change that?

Reality check for you, the online (and offline) Amiga Community is not doing well.  It is withering away with fewer and fewer Amiga users each year.  If it was doing just fine, Genesi would still be making Pegs and PPC EFIKAs, SAM440/460s would be seeing annual sales of thousands of units.  Look how many active posters on AO have left over the past five years. I doubt you can find a new PPC EFIKA, let alone a Peg anymore.  SAMs are not flying off the shelf and I doubt a total of a thousand have been sold over all the years since SAM 440 was released.

Then get busy and make a new Amiga that we'll want to buy.

Oh, they are making their own Commodore Amiga series, do out  in the second or third quarter of 2012.  You see they will be selling those for profit, unlike the offer they gave to the online Amiga Community which is at dead cost as a favor to the online Amiga Community.

[dammy]

Dammy lets get this straight. IF Commodore USA where to produce a product that did everything they promised with the communities

C=USA didn't promised anything in this deal other then to hold up their end of the bargain.  They are asking what the online Amiga Community wants as a new product, with exact details, in numbers with the payment to cover the dead costs in a third party escrow account until the product ships.  

and IF it was reasonably priced then not only would I hold my hand up and say sorry but I would probably invest in one. But I don't have loads of money laying spare to throw into a escrow for six months for a product that is not even off the drawing board.

There isn't even a hint of a given product that the online Amiga Community wants out of this deal.  Before you can get as far as you just said, the online Amiga Community has to get 500 people to agree on a given product, with details and turn it over to C=USA.  C=USA does the research and gives a total number of what 500 units is going to cost them.  Then it's the online Amiga Community's turn to gather the 500 payments, to a mutally agreed to third party escrow account and then C=USA goes into action making the item on C=USA's capital until the product ships to those 500 people.

Once CUSA make their mind up on how much these things are gonna cost then maybe people would be willing to put the money in. But saying 500 people need to put an, as so far, undisclosed amount of money into a random escrow on pure faith to start the project, something that is lacking with CUSA especially when you come along basically calling the community in large cowards because we are not willing to do it, is a bit much.

See above for corrections to what you think the offer is about.  That's the kicker, at this stage, it's about getting agreement what the first project should be by 500 people, then the next phase is to find out the total cost is going to be.  There isn't even a hint of what the project should be that would be supported by 500 people getting their dream hardware item.

So again if CUSA are in such a good position to provide these service to the community can they not do like they did with the C64X and produce the machines, say a batch of 500, and then sell them "at cost" to the first 500 people who buy them. Seems to me thats a more reasonable offer.

If the online Amiga Community can't decide what they want of 500 units, at dead costs, how the hell is C=USA going to know for them to take a financial risk on?   You act like C=USA is making this offer to screw you out of money, that isn't the case at all.  If anything, C=USA is taking a huge financial risk because if the project goes forward and if they under estimated the costs because of whatever reason, they are going to be eating the difference on a project that they are not going to see a profit on from the start.  Can you find a better deal then that?

It is the online Amiga Community's ball, do it with what you may.

[eliyahu]

Perhaps what is what the online Amiga Community is willing to actually buy is in serious doubt.   Look at the A1X1K and see if anyone thinks this is going to be a profitable venture for A-EON.

i'm sure your arguments pro CUSA are strong enough to stand on their own merit.  please stop dragging A-EON into your posts every time you feel threatened.  whether or not the X1000 is profitable has no bearing on whether any CUSA product will be profitable, nor on whether or not the community will take advantage of CUSA's largesse.  thanks.  

by the way, i think the community is treating CUSA unfairly in this instance, actually.  there are plenty of things for us to be angry about with regards their behavior in the past (and present), but people shouldn't be complaining when they offer an olive branch such as this.  one of the biggest complaints was, "they're not interested in the community! they only want to profit off TeH NAmE!!"  it isn't right that those very people should now complain when CUSA are interested in what the community wants, or imply that CUSA offering to produce said desire at cost as somehow evil and malicious.

i may be one of the biggest CUSA detractors around, but the community reaction to their offer doesn't add up.  why not take them up on their offer?  what do we have to lose, exactly?  if it isn't genuine, then nothing will have changed.  and if it is, we can only benefit.  what am i missing here? :confused:

-- eliyahu

[CritAnime]

My complaint isn't that they are now interested in the community, this is actually a refreshing step forward give the past between the various aspects of the community as a whole. But rather why we need to put money into an escrow for a product that, once the community decides what they actually want, will not be seen for six months. A deposit I can understand to secure the unit. But the full money.

4. A minimum of 500 customers must pre-pay the entire amount in an independent account at a trusted institution (at the community's discretion) for the project to begin.

[spirantho]

What I don't understand is why people are bothering to even think about this deal.
I mean, even if we forget the animosity toward C=USA; even if we forget the huge gaping holes in the logic of the offer (like deciding on a project to go with when they've not even got permission for all interested parties); even forgetting all that there is one simple fact that we cannot ignore:

At low volume the price is guaranteed to be at least several hundred dollars: what are the chances of getting 500 people of such a small community to agree to a project, for it to be legally possible and permitted by all parties, and for them to pay up real cash in advance for a project, even just $100?

Then you add in the fact that it'll probably take 10 polls before people agree on something that's feasible in 6 months, and legally possible and permitted.