Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community  (Read 76450 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline spirantho

Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
« Reply #194 from previous page: December 24, 2011, 06:23:08 PM »
Quote from: Middleman;672760
==I guess you could say that.... :P
Well CUSA are actually quite helpful but are just currently understaffed (sadly). And being an early supporter myself, well why not? Is there anything wrong with that?


But why are they understaffed?

A big company that has apparently had a $30m advertising budget, but doesn't have enough staff to answer support questions? Just doesn't make sense....
--
Ian Gledhill
ian.gledhill@btinternit.com (except it should be internEt of course...!)
Check out my shop! http://www.mutant-caterpillar.co.uk/shop/ - for 8-bit (and soon 16-bit) goodness!
 

Offline Duce

  • Off to greener pastures
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 1699
    • Show only replies by Duce
    • http://amigabbs.blogspot.com/
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
« Reply #195 on: December 24, 2011, 07:08:30 PM »
A company that had a sponsorship deal with Disney, a company that has ties to Motorola, a company that was going to have boxes of their systems on Best Buy shelves, a company with 30 million dollar budget.

Now understaffed - why?  Last I was told they were selling tens of thousands of the machines.  Doesn't add up, does it?  And this company that you readily admit is understaffed is coming here, wanting to do all sorts of engineering magic and gee whiz marketing inventiveness to bring what "WE* want via this Challenge, and they don't even have the staff to manage what they have now apparently, while it's being proposed as a pay up front deal?  The guy on Reddit paid up front too.  Maybe he also got threats when he asked questions, too.  Wonder if he ever got his machine, and if he had heat issues and was told to buy a laptop cooler too.  Maybe he was lucky like the other guy, and it arrived and the keyboard wasn't even hooked up and the wifi wouldn't work when it got warm.

Having faith and being "early supporters" are just fine, but 1 + 1 just isn't equaling 2 here on any of this, is it?  Eating the pablum on the spoon they are cramming in open mouths due to wishful thinking is one thing, ignoring the many obvious questions going unanswered and the sheer amount of contradiction is just too much to swallow, lol.

Wonder why the words "deposit" and "support" make people nervous, and why people mention the words "track record"?  Now where do I send my deposit!!?!?!!!  Note the phone number for Homecraft is still the same as Commodore USA.  With 30 million dollars, you'd think an extra phone line would have been doable.

http://www.bbb.org/south-east-florida/business-reviews/bathroom-fixtures-and-accessories-retailing/homecraft-in-fort-lauderdale-fl-23006396
« Last Edit: December 24, 2011, 07:20:15 PM by Duce »
 

Offline persia

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2006
  • Posts: 3753
    • Show only replies by persia
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
« Reply #196 on: December 24, 2011, 07:59:38 PM »
@Duce

Add to that the number of posters on their website, something doesn't add up.  Oe of the beauties of being a privately held company is that their are no annual reports, no securities filings, nothing that reveals the actual strength of the company.  From everything I can see or read they look like a company with sales in the thousands not tens of thousands.....
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

What we\'re witnessing is the sad, lonely crowing of that last, doomed cock.
 

Offline CritAnime

  • Previous Life Time Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 1143
    • Show only replies by CritAnime
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
« Reply #197 on: December 24, 2011, 08:03:51 PM »
One thing I have noticed is the recent Q&A with Barry where he mantioned this.
 
Quote
6. Do you have any plans to make available an 'emulation wrapper', ie what Amiga Inc did with their Cinemaware games, to allow compatibility directly with old Amiga games/applications and Commodore OS?
 
The E-UAE/UAE and VICE emulators are already present in Commodore OS and will soon, perhaps even in the next update, include AROS ROMs allowing ALL Commodore OS Vision users to run Amiga games. Further features that facilitate classic software launching within Commodore OS will be refined over time through updates for a more seamless experience.
 

I thought that they werent allowed to use the AROS roms?
 
http://www.commodore-amiga.org/en/forum/27-commodore-usa/5540-qaa-with-cusa?limit=15&start=45#11148
 
Also I have to agree that something just doesnt seem right with a company that supposidly has massive resources yet can't staff the facility and requires people to put money down first before starting a new Amiga range.

Offline spirantho

Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
« Reply #198 on: December 24, 2011, 08:50:25 PM »
All I'm going to say on the matter is this:
1) C=USA have no technical staff, otherwise C=OS would have been more than just a reskin. Also they would be being used to provide support.
2) C=USA have asked for us to provide ideas,  for them to implement in 6 months. That's about 24 weeks. There is no way anything close to what the Amiga commmunity will ask for will be done in this time. They would need this time just for testing alone - ask Trevor. He hired a professional team of experienced designers for the X1000 and it still took nearly two years. How can a company with no technical know-how do it in 6 months?
3) C=USA know full well that the chances of 500 Amiga people agreeing on what they want to the extent of plonking down the cash is close to zero.
4) It is not good business practice to promise something you may not be able to provide. Say 500 people agree to an AOS 4.x x86 port. C=USA take the money, and then Hyperion tell them to take a hike. What then?  Do we have to keep going through polls until we find a solution that they can legally do?

I can't quite work out whether they're being very naive (and being serious), genuinely trying to repair relations with the community they themselves went out of their way to alienate, or just having a laugh.

My gut feeling is that Leo (who I do think is genuine) really does want to repair relations with Amiga users, and that Barry (who has specifically told us where we can go) just doesn't care but is happy to let Leo do what he wants.... but it just comes across as desperation and a lack of a clear focus. This isn't the way to mend relations, this sounds like someone who wants to but doesn't know how to. C=USA need to do their own market research, and then work out if it's possible and how long it will take. They then should speak to the relevant companies (this can take months alone), and work out a licensing deal. After that they need to double the time it'll take, because these things always take longer than expected.

Once they've got:
A popular design of their choosing.
An accurate timescale including time to spare for unforseen hold-ups.
A pessimistic valuation of money required to cope with unforseen costs.
Agreed licensing deals with all parties concerned.
Green light from all lawyers and rights holders.

... THEN they can start taking pre-orders into an escrow service, with a clearly written legal document checked with professional lawyers, ensuring compliance with all regional variations in laws. Remember we're talking about a LOT of money here, maybe up to a million dollars.

Once all that is in place, maybe I'll be interested, but at the moment it's all upside-down, back-to-front and topsy-turvy.
--
Ian Gledhill
ian.gledhill@btinternit.com (except it should be internEt of course...!)
Check out my shop! http://www.mutant-caterpillar.co.uk/shop/ - for 8-bit (and soon 16-bit) goodness!
 

Offline EDanaII

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2006
  • Posts: 579
    • Show only replies by EDanaII
    • http://www.EdwardGDanaII.info
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
« Reply #199 on: December 24, 2011, 09:43:41 PM »
Quote
2) C=USA have asked for us to provide ideas, for them to implement in 6 months. That's about 24 weeks. There is no way anything close to what the Amiga commmunity will ask for will be done in this time. They would need this time just for testing alone - ask Trevor. He hired a professional team of experienced designers for the X1000 and it still took nearly two years. How can a company with no technical know-how do it in 6 months?


There are a couple of things that are doable withing that 6 month time-frame. One is AROS on a particular set of hardware. I think OS4.1 or MorphOS on x86 are also doable, but less likely, assuming, of course, that either are willing to be a part of that. Beyond that, yes, I think you're correct, anything else in 6 months is highly doubtful.
Ed.
 

Offline haywirepc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2009
  • Posts: 1331
    • Show only replies by haywirepc
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
« Reply #200 on: December 24, 2011, 10:01:51 PM »
"I thought that they werent allowed to use the AROS roms?"

I would think since they are open source anyone can use them for anything provided the authors requirements are met. If I wrote or created those roms I'd object to them using them simply because of the way they have treated AROS, and its developers/supporters.

After first claiming that they would be "heavily funding AROS development" then backing out when it wasn't convienant for them... THEN not offering a single penny to aros bounties... They insult AROS and its community again and again... And Next?

Next they announce they will take parts of AROS to include in their "commodore OS"?

As for their past promises to heavily fund AROS, not a penny so far... Not a SINGLE penny. Here's a "company" thats supposed to have a 30 million dollar advertising budget.
I would think even just kicking AROS bounties 10 or 20 thousand dollars wouldn't be
too hard, to keep a promise you made. Instead, they are fine with everyone knowing
they are liars, braggards and bull****ters.

"Heavily funding AROS development" means not a single penny?

But hey, now that you have something we think we can use (steal really) we'll use it, and you still won't see a single penny from them towards AROS bounties, which actually pay for the tech they are intending to use...

Why would anyone buy ANYTHING from a company that acts like that?

Also, I agree no way in hell anything other than perhaps a custom cased x86 computer could realistically be created in that time frame. Thats a ridiculous timeframe and they hyped this c64x for like 2 years before it was a real thing...

So pardon me if I think they are full of... BULL**** as usual.
 

Offline dammy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2002
  • Posts: 2828
    • Show only replies by dammy
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
« Reply #201 on: December 26, 2011, 02:06:43 PM »
Quote from: koaftder;672012
Work out an agreement with the Natami project so folks can get that in a properly branded Amiga case.


If the Amiga Community was behind it, I bet they would.  But where are the 500 people wanting it?
Dammy

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Arix-OS/414578091930728
Unless otherwise noted, I speak only for myself.
 

Offline Tripitaka

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2005
  • Posts: 1307
    • Show only replies by Tripitaka
    • http://acidapple.com
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
« Reply #202 on: December 27, 2011, 12:56:01 AM »
Quote from: dammy;672937
If the Amiga Community was behind it, I bet they would.  But where are the 500 people wanting it?


Take a look at the Natami forums if you think we're a hard sell. I don't rate CUSA having any chance of convincing the Natami team.
Falling into a dark and red rage.
 

Offline dammy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2002
  • Posts: 2828
    • Show only replies by dammy
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
« Reply #203 on: December 27, 2011, 07:23:47 AM »
Quote from: Tripitaka;673034
Take a look at the Natami forums if you think we're a hard sell. I don't rate CUSA having any chance of convincing the Natami team.


Pretty sad that the online Amiga Community can't get a quick 500 people together on a single project to support.
Dammy

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Arix-OS/414578091930728
Unless otherwise noted, I speak only for myself.
 

Offline haywirepc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2009
  • Posts: 1331
    • Show only replies by haywirepc
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
« Reply #204 on: December 27, 2011, 08:03:17 AM »
Oh so thats what this is about, put this out there so you can blame the community for cusa's failures? After saying we're not their target market then come begging for pre-orders then blame the community when its more BULL**** from cusa and nothing happens.
 

Offline spirantho

Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
« Reply #205 on: December 27, 2011, 08:36:28 AM »
I'm trying to find a nice way of saying "you mean it's taken you this long to figure that out?!"..... :)
--
Ian Gledhill
ian.gledhill@btinternit.com (except it should be internEt of course...!)
Check out my shop! http://www.mutant-caterpillar.co.uk/shop/ - for 8-bit (and soon 16-bit) goodness!
 

Offline Krischan76

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Dec 2007
  • Posts: 72
    • Show only replies by Krischan76
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
« Reply #206 on: December 27, 2011, 09:13:35 AM »
Quote from: dammy;673047
Pretty sad that the online Amiga Community can't get a quick 500 people together on a single project to support.


Thanks for confirming my suspicion on how this CUSA scheme was designed to work from the beginning.
 

Offline dammy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2002
  • Posts: 2828
    • Show only replies by dammy
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
« Reply #207 on: December 27, 2011, 02:26:44 PM »
Quote from: haywirepc;673049
Oh so thats what this is about, put this out there so you can blame the community for cusa's failures? After saying we're not their target market then come begging for pre-orders then blame the community when its more BULL**** from cusa and nothing happens.


Come begging to make stuff at dead costs?  No one comes begging to make a new product at dead costs.   Haters have to hate, I suppose.  That is one hell of a deal they offered you all, and you can't come up with 500  votes to call their hand?
Dammy

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Arix-OS/414578091930728
Unless otherwise noted, I speak only for myself.
 

Offline dammy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2002
  • Posts: 2828
    • Show only replies by dammy
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
« Reply #208 on: December 27, 2011, 02:29:28 PM »
Quote from: Krischan76;673054
Thanks for confirming my suspicion on how this CUSA scheme was designed to work from the beginning.


So call their hand then.  There is 500 people left in the online Amiga Community, isn't there?
Dammy

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Arix-OS/414578091930728
Unless otherwise noted, I speak only for myself.
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
« Reply #209 on: December 27, 2011, 03:21:38 PM »
Quote from: dammy;673072
Come begging to make stuff at dead costs?  No one comes begging to make a new product at dead costs.   Haters have to hate, I suppose.  That is one hell of a deal they offered you all, and you can't come up with 500  votes to call their hand?


you were bashing this or better kind of deals around here long enough, do i have to hint yet? so why are you suprised if now cusa proposition is met with scepticism, even if this is your prefference. if they want to make some product addressing this community then they may want to go ahead and show off as they did with the 64 replica.