I think.........

[spirantho]

@Minuous

No, it hasn't. It's true AOS 4 uses more RAM to start up but that RAM is actually used usefully, not wasted. And the reason the apps seem to take up more RAM is simply because most of them are ports. If you use designed-for-AOS4 software like SimpleMail, it's almost as lean as AOS3.

@Middleman

First: welcome!

Second: I have to take issue with a tiny point, but please let's not let this get into a C=USA bashing thread - there's plenty of room for them elsewhere...

That said, I was a little saddened by Amiga Inc's stance against CUSA in not allowing AROS to be used and ported over to a modern PC machine bearing the words 'Amiga' - if it had, CUSA wouldn't have needed to go down the path of making their own Linux distro and this would have made everyone happy (that we get a 'modern' Amiga using the latest industry equipment on an established OS). I am not saying this because I am also a CUSA regular - it's just the truth.

That's not what happened, I'm afraid. There were quite a few reasons why C=USA didn't use AROS.

Barry is correct in that AROS isn't ready for mainstream workstation markets - he's not in it for a nostalgia OS, just a nostalgia case. He wanted a modern compatible system that looked old, which is fair enough. AROS is excellent, but I don't think anyone would pretend it's ready for the professional market yet, not least because of the lack of software.

The other reason, though, is that Barry obviously doesn't like AROS. He's made a number of very scathing and undeserved comments about AROS, which shows what he really thinks.

Blame Amiga Inc for many things, but not for this one, this is C=USA's choice. Remember they're not aiming at Amiga users, they're aiming at PC users who just like a bit of nostalgia.
A shame - if they'd run AROS I'd probably have been interested. If Amiga Inc had begged Barry to use AROS, he'd still have gone with Linux, I'm absolutely certain.

[Middleman]

@Middleman

First: welcome!

==Thanks! Although I've not posted much before I do come here and have a bit of a gander sometimes. I think it's the mini projects that interest me most...

Second: I have to take issue with a tiny point, but please let's not let this get into a C=USA bashing thread - there's plenty of room for them elsewhere...

==Haha don't mention it! I'm just here to get away from it all and enjoy the vintage atmosphere!

That's not what happened, I'm afraid. There were quite a few reasons why C=USA didn't use AROS.

Barry is correct in that AROS isn't ready for mainstream workstation markets - he's not in it for a nostalgia OS, just a nostalgia case. He wanted a modern compatible system that looked old, which is fair enough. AROS is excellent, but I don't think anyone would pretend it's ready for the professional market yet, not least because of the lack of software.

The other reason, though, is that Barry obviously doesn't like AROS. He's made a number of very scathing and undeserved comments about AROS, which shows what he really thinks.

Blame Amiga Inc for many things, but not for this one, this is C=USA's choice. Remember they're not aiming at Amiga users, they're aiming at PC users who just like a bit of nostalgia.
A shame - if they'd run AROS I'd probably have been interested. If Amiga Inc had begged Barry to use AROS, he'd still have gone with Linux, I'm absolutely certain.

==You think so? To me it seems he was always keen to get Aros running and only running into legal trouble at the last minute..

Anyways there seems to be a lot going on the Amiga-scene at the moment. I have my eye on the FPGA Replay....I think it's fantastic if you ask me.

[spirantho]

==You think so? To me it seems he was always keen to get Aros running and only running into legal trouble at the last minute..

Allow me to quote the man himself:

digitex wrote:

 Played OUR cards right??? You're kidding, off course! I'd rather have a double root canal without novacaine, performed by a blind dentist using a rusty nail, before I would foist any of these cludgey, archaic, half baked so called OS's, like AROS, etc. on my worst enemy, let alone a customer.

'nuff said, really.

Anyways there seems to be a lot going on the Amiga-scene at the moment. I have my eye on the FPGA Replay....I think it's fantastic if you ask me.

That's the great thing - there's a lot of in-fighting at the moment which is annoying in itself, but the fact that we have something to argue about is fantastic.

This is part of why I don't understand the C=USA lot, though - with so much going on in Amigaland with AOS 4.2/X1000, AROS always coming strong and MorphOS 3 coming soon, there's a load of exciting things around the corner, and I don't mean just a blue linux distro in an old-style case. I guess it's horses for courses though.

[drwho]

I don't agree that the Amiga is dead. If for nothing else, the amount of traffic on this site, Amibay, EAB, etc. should be proof enough that there are a steamy pant load of people out there not only still using Amiga's, but, buying and selling amongst themselves, talking about them, working together solving problems and, of course, having conversations just like this one, which center around the Amiga.

Personally, I prefer things the way they are now. Commodore is out of the picture, which is good because they were idiots. Amiga inc. appears to be making tablets or something like that now, which is fine since the Amiga inc brand seemed to do little for the community anyway. Gateway failed the Amiga, thankfully, given the trash they peddle, I cant imagine the junk they would have slapped together with the Amiga name on it.

The Amiga feels like more of a community driven architecture now, and there are people making things for it here and there, otherwise, AmigaKit wouldn't have anything to sell.

It is true that people are needed to write software for it and it's fine to get frustrated and voice your anger about that shortcoming. However, if you really feel that strongly, don't just complain, do something about it. Grab a compiler from somewhere and start learning.

On paper the idea of having some big company come along and start making Amiga's again might sound good, but, is that what you really want? Take a look at the goofy Amiga inc. site, to each his own I guess, but, I am not sure that I would want my beloved Amiga OS to be boiled down to a weak tablet OS. It's just not fitting. What's next? An Amiga phone perhaps? (aPhone? hmmm ...)

I guess the old saying is really true, you should watch what you wish for, you just might get it.

[Iggy]

...but then OS4/MoS doesn't even have a sophisticated web browser in 2011 so yeah whatever. Fail on price/Fail on Hardware/Fail on OS (MoS or OS4).
 
...(MoS has same problems as OS4 and even worse runs on old crusty Apple hardware with Apple logos all over the box...great!)

Hey! I like Odyssey. Except for Flash support (which is rapidily becoming irrelevent) it has all the features I need in a browser.
 
And MorphOS also runs on Pegasos systems (although I'll take the "crappy" Mac).
 
I also have a four core X86 system, but I find myself using my MorphOS system far more often.

[Middleman]

Allow me to quote the man himself:

'nuff said, really.

==Ahh, that thing....I remember reading that too somewhere. He was saying it out of frustration (if I remember correctly) because he'd been refused once by the Aros team (who I heard had refused his offer - remember their site did say to have Amigas running Aros?). Subsequently comparing Aros with Linux brought him to the conclusion that maybe Aros just wasn't good enough. Couple that with a bad day at the office and everyone at A.org jumping on him...

Well I admit having been on their site for almost the past year, Barry is not a very good communicator. But I understand where he's coming from when he says this. He's a busy man trying to run a computer company trying to make his machines work and customers happy. You must admit it's not an easy thing. But I do agree it shouldn't have been taken out on them like that.

That's the great thing - there's a lot of in-fighting at the moment which is annoying in itself, but the fact that we have something to argue about is fantastic.

This is part of why I don't understand the C=USA lot, though - with so much going on in Amigaland with AOS 4.2/X1000, AROS always coming strong and MorphOS 3 coming soon, there's a load of exciting things around the corner, and I don't mean just a blue linux distro in an old-style case. I guess it's horses for courses though.

==Well I can explain this. A lot of us over there all are like you guys. As former users we want a new Amiga so badly we are happy to cut off our right arm for one. =)) But we also realise the limitations of the legacy systems (which we call Classic Amiga) and want to make improvements to it using what tech is available now (and in abundance today) to make a PC-based Amiga a real alternative to a Dell or Mac. What we don't want is for Commodore to lose itself again through under-supported initiatives ie. hardware or software developers/manufacturers that would force it to go out of business like the old days. This is something I know they are quite adamant about.

As for the retro Amiga, well Leo and Barry have abandoned this idea for now. Barry has said back in September he is planning on a totally BRAND NEW A500 in the coming months based on the design of RJ Marrett's Amiga concept. If anything this should be quite an exciting development for the community (for a long while since when C= launched the Amiga). It comes out next year, so hold onto your hats folks, you ain't seen nothing yet!

[commodorejohn]

Well I can explain this. A lot of us over there all are like you guys. As former users we want a new Amiga so badly we are happy to cut off our right arm for one. =)) But we also realise the limitations of the legacy systems (which we call Classic Amiga) and want to make improvements to it using what tech is available now (and in abundance today) to make a PC-based Amiga a real alternative to a Dell or Mac.

I just don't understand this. Obviously there are people there with a lot of real feeling for CBM/Amiga systems - so why are you following a delusional narcissist who's said outright that he doesn't care about the CBM/Amiga community?

Barry has said back in September he is planning on a totally BRAND NEW A500 in the coming months based on the design of RJ Marrett's Amiga concept.

Barry says a lot of things.

[mbrantley]

My classics still work, still getting upgrades.

MorphOS brings me to the modern age.

Amithlon works wonders.

AROS is very interesting.

OS 4 should soon be affordable hopefully.

I'm happy and I'm afraid of what would happen if it went main stream.

XDelusion, I like your attitude! Your thoughts echo my own.

[fishy_fiz]

Actually, it's not A.Inc that disallowed AROS to be used. This aggressive attitude shown was after it became clear that the Hyperion/A.Inc courtcase stipulated A.Inc (and inherritently C-USA) werent allowed to release any AmigaOS style OS.
Granted, there's some truth in the fact that none of the NG options are ready for the mainstream yet, but the aggression towards AROS was inspired more by the realisation they couldnt use it even if they wanted to coupled with the fact that they also discovered it wasnt going to be a free ride (notice how theyre only using other peoples work that costs them nothing?).

Due to this I really dont see C-USA getting many supporters here in the amiga world. I personally couldnt care less enough to bash them, but the simple fact is nothing they produce will be anything resembling the amiga people enjoy. They can fine tune thier linux distro until the cows come home, and put it into an amiga style case, but this doesnt stop it being a linux distro and sharing nothing with the amiga people enjoy.

Hypothetical, but I also disagree that current limitations in amiga based oses mean it needs to be disregarded and started again for it to advance. Funny enough these "words of wisdom" seem to usually come from people who have never developed for the system, and dont really know what's required.
Look at where Windows has ended up, on a core with disadvantages vs amiga os, or how far linux has come along. Yes it's quite some work, but there's no reason AmigaOS based systems cant advance similarly.

[Minuous]

>I'd rather have a double root canal without novacaine, performed by a blind dentist using a rusty nail, before I would foist any of these cludgey, archaic, half baked so called OS's, like AROS, etc. on my worst enemy, let alone a customer.

He does have a point. AROS really isn't ready for prime time. Eg. it is still missing basic functionality that the Classic Amiga has had for 12 years, such as ReAction, and the ability to seamlessly run 68K executables.

[fishy_fiz]

I dont disagree that AROS (or indeed any "NG" amiga option) isnt ready for the mainstream, but your choice ofe xamples is,... err,... unusual  
Reaction isnt overly important, and AROS can run 68k executables seemlessly  (although it requires quite some grunt to do so in a decent way).

[commodorejohn]

(notice how theyre only using other peoples work that costs them nothing?)

How can you say that, fishy!? Don't you realize, they made a whole custom skin? Where "custom skin" is defined as "tweaking GNOME settings to be kind of blue-ish and OSX-ey?" That must've taken them whole man-years to develop!

Hypothetical, but I also disagree that current limitations in amiga based oses mean it needs to be disregarded and started again for it to advance. Funny enough these "words of wisdom" seem to usually come from people who have never developed for the system, and dont really know what's required.
Look at where Windows has ended up, on a core with disadvantages vs amiga os, or how far linux has come along. Yes it's quite some work, but there's no reason AmigaOS based systems cant advance similarly.

I do wonder about that. 68k doesn't have anything like the handy virtual 8086 mode that Win32 uses to run Win16 programs safely, but I still don't see why it couldn't be done in theory.

[Middleman]

I just don't understand this. Obviously there are people there with a lot of real feeling for CBM/Amiga systems - so why are you following a delusional narcissist who's said outright that he doesn't care about the CBM/Amiga community?

==CommodoreJohn, I know how you feel and it 'seems' that way 'that he doesn't care'. But to be fair he DOES. Otherwise he wouldn't be spending so much money and so much of his time to 'resurrect' the Commodore brand with new products and new ideas. After all, it's real money and time invested into a business we're talking about here....not some giant faceless corporation with loads of money to splash away. If he fails the whole thing collapses...that's the reality. He hasn't got the luxury to think how things should be
 
And I'm not saying this because I'm trying to defend them or anything - I'm just stating what I see as an 'outsider'....
 
TBH Barry's not that bad...he's more of a 'actions speak louder than words' kinda guy and he's just probably annoyed sometimes that whenever he's on A.org it's like as if a rugby ball has just been handed to him and everyone in the room decides to have a scrum... :lol:
 
As for CUSA well I'm there for other reasons....despite what you see in him/them there are some nice people in the CUSA camp (that I happen to know). Leo is a nice guy for starters and he's worked hard on getting the Linux-based Commodore OS going for the past few months. The beta's been working beautifully on a lot of systems (many non-Commodore I may add).
 

Barry says a lot of things.

==Yes he does, and some of the things he has said in the past I know have annoyed you guys a bit like the 'China factory photos were from Germany' story, and the obsolete product announcements etc. But please don't hold this to them, they are only a small company working to a tight schedule, resources and budget. And unfortunately sometimes, for small companies, strategies change. In CUSA's case it is unfortunate it has been changed at least twice (that I know of) with regards to product announcements.
 
 
That said, the real story of the China photos was like this (that I know of). The supplier initially had given these 'supposed' China factory photos to Barry. Barry being the honest gentleman, decides to trust his supplier at face value and release them to the public when he felt it was ready...only to go red-faced when someone else told them (from A.org?) they were from a Germany factory. So what was the problem? Well the mistake was....his supplier didn't tell him they were 'generic factory' photos! In this case, it was the photos from Fujitsu's factory in Augsberg which they used.

So there you have it....that's what genuinely happened (mystery solved, not a conspiracy!). We've been told apparently that is what they do in the computer industry (with suppliers at least), that they release photos to their clients of those factories deemed 'more photogenic' from a PR perspective. So if anything, blame it on his Chinese supplier! :laughing:

[commodorejohn]

CommodoreJohn, I know how you feel and it 'seems' that way 'that he doesn't care'. But to be fair he DOES. Otherwise he wouldn't be spending so much money and so much of his time to 'resurrect' the Commodore brand with new products and new ideas. After all, it's real money and time invested into a business we're talking about here....not some giant faceless corporation with loads of money to splash away. If he fails the whole thing collapses...that's the reality. He hasn't got the luxury to think how things should be

He's not resurrecting anything. He's putting bog-standard PC boards in a moderately spiffy case, loading them with a free OS that CUSA in no way contributed to the development of, tweaking the default theme to look vaguely like an electric-blue OSX, charging obscene amounts of money, and expecting to be hailed as the second coming of Jack Tramiel.

And if you think he's putting himself on the line here, you haven't looked up the definition of "limited-liability company."
 

TBH Barry's not that bad...he's more of a 'actions speak louder than words' kinda guy and he's just probably annoyed sometimes that whenever he's on A.org it's like as if a rugby ball has just been handed to him and everyone in the room decides to have a scrum... :lol:

o_O If his actions speak louder than his words, and his words have spoken "I'm not asking how often you have sex, or if you have trouble performing. We already know that because we looked. I am asking what is your wife's favorite position, and does she really enjoy it?" then...wow.

[QuikSanz]

Instead it's like the computing equivelent of Big Brother it gets dug up, dusted off, new clothes and a spot of makup to cover over the rotting holes from the last time it was abused and then tarted around as if it's the next best thing in computing.

That sounds like you confused with windows ;-)

Chris

[spirantho]

==CommodoreJohn, I know how you feel and it 'seems' that way 'that he doesn't care'. But to be fair he DOES. Otherwise he wouldn't be spending so much money and so much of his time to 'resurrect' the Commodore brand with new products and new ideas.

I think you're going to be disappointed....
the only thing Barry cares about is money, that much has been made clear several times. I know you'd like there to be new Amigas - as do we all here - but C=USA isn't the answer.

I've seen your posts on their forum and it's obvious that you really want it to be true that Barry is going to bring the Amiga back to its glory, but it's really not. A Linux is distro does not and never will have anything to do with the Amiga, no matter what sticker you slap on the box.

There are so many great REAL things happening now, with REAL Amiga systems (be they AROS, MOS or AOS 4), why waste your time with the pretenders who are just cashing in on the name?