I think.........

[Jose]

Maybe it was better this way. If it was still in the big markets it would probably have gone down to a bloated pice of cr*p just like most other comercial OSes available.
Also, the left community might not always be heaven but it better than having to deal with thousands or millions of empty posts of wanna be experts (PC forums...).

[amigadave]

And if I type in all caps people will believe the crap I spout because I am a "True Amigan".

[koshman]

This, this constant obsession with having a "new Amiga" that must be just so powerful and cheap and powerful that the unwashed masses can't not see the light, this is exactly the attitude we do not need. That's not going to happen any time soon, if ever. It's just not, not unless you take a PC and slap a boing-ball sticker on it and go "IT IS RISEN, AND ASCENDETH INTO HEAVEN TO SIT AT THE RIGHT HAND OF JAY THE FATHER!"

Nor is it necessary. What made the Amiga special wasn't its position in the market/specs-wars of the era - the fact that it was a hell of a deal was just pure gravy. What made the Amiga special was that it was a clever, flexible design that people could sit down, read the docs, and really understand, and come away with the knowledge to really exploit the machine to their own ends, something that showed ever more fruit as time drew on.

That's what the Amiga had that no PC, Mac, or even ARM SoC board can touch. That's what a "new Amiga" needs, not this perennial one-sided dick-measuring contest.

"And that's what the Amiga is all about, Charlie Brown."

Commodorejohn, thank you for saying exactly what I'm thinking much better than I would be able to say it. Your post should be stickied and automatically pop up when anyone visits A.org.

[amiga2003]

Hi, all! What introduced me to Amiga was this ad:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXhmL8XZcFM
My folks bought me the Commodore Amiga 500 because of this girl, I was in love with her. And the computer proved so excellent. This video brings out so much nostalgia in me. :rolleyes:

[Thorham]

Yep, it's a nostalgia-driven hobby, no more, no less...

It's not to everyone. Some people have classic machines as their only computers, and I personally have always had an Amiga, no nostalgia here.

Anyway, what's so nostalgic about Amiga computers? They're modern machines: Just a box, a keyboard and a monitor. It's still exactly the same with desktop peecees, they're just faster.

Nope, never understood this nostalgia thing when applied to modern technology.

[Sandman]

It's not to everyone. Some people have classic machines as their only computers, and I personally have always had an Amiga, no nostalgia here.

Anyway, what's so nostalgic about Amiga computers? They're modern machines: Just a box, a keyboard and a monitor. It's still exactly the same with desktop peecees, they're just faster.

Nope, never understood this nostalgia thing when applied to modern technology.

I totally respect your opinion but have to disagree.  

The Amiga is not modern... its a 20+ yr old system, an old system with charm, mind you, that many still love.  

My smartphone which could probably blow-away my CPPC A4000T, that's modern.  Heck, surfing the web for the most part is a challenge for our classic hardware, IMHO.  Like I mentioned in my previous post, I might tinker around with Lightwave, ImageFX, etc. but when I need to get real work done I fire up Solidworks, Photoshop,etc. Classic Amiga. besides a hobby, is only really capable of less complex tasks.

[spirantho]

It's different for everybody, of course... but for me Nostalgia doesn't enter into it in the slightest.

I've tried Windows, Linux, MacOS, Solaris... you name it, I've probably tried it. But AmigaOS is the only OS I got into, and still enjoy using it.

That's what Amiga is about, enjoyment. And I enjoy using AmigaOS 4 (and AOS 3) most, so I use that. Nothing to do with nostalgia.

To be quite honest, and I don't want this to sound rude, but I don't care if a smartphone can run folding programs at 10x the speed of an Amiga while singing Beethoven and finding the price of tea in China - it's not a computing experience to rival my Amigas, so I shall stick with my Amigas. The power, price and abilities of other systems is irrelevant as they have no bearing on my enjoyment of my Amiga, if you see what I mean.

[Sandman]

It's different for everybody, of course... but for me Nostalgia doesn't enter into it in the slightest.

I've tried Windows, Linux, MacOS, Solaris... you name it, I've probably tried it. But AmigaOS is the only OS I got into, and still enjoy using it.

That's what Amiga is about, enjoyment. And I enjoy using AmigaOS 4 (and AOS 3) most, so I use that. Nothing to do with nostalgia.

To be quite honest, and I don't want this to sound rude, but I don't care if a smartphone can run folding programs at 10x the speed of an Amiga while singing Beethoven and finding the price of tea in China - it's not a computing experience to rival my Amigas, so I shall stick with my Amigas. The power, price and abilities of other systems is irrelevant as they have no bearing on my enjoyment of my Amiga, if you see what I mean.

The reason I mentioned the smartphone comparison is to describe where "the Amiga fits in for me."  

Its like my buddy and his classic car.  It's his favorite thing in the world and there is nothing that he would rather work on and drive.  But when he needs to drive to work or run out in the middle of the night, in a snowstorm, to pick up a gallon of milk at the grocery store he wouldn't even consider driving it and that is the time it really manifests itself as a hobby.

That is the same way that I feel about the Amiga, fun to play with, tinker with and enjoy but its time being relevant to "the real world" as a functional tool, for the most part, sadly has passed.  It just has and thinking that is still a real player is dreaming.

When I need to get real work done, "like listening to Beethoven while finding the price of tea in China", as you say, I don't want a "computing experience."  That is the time I just want to get the job done, which unfortunately most of the time the Amiga just can't do no matter what kind of "experience" I want.  

After the real stuff is done, I can get back to playing with the Amiga, which I really love to d0....... as my hobby.  I love to visit the past, I just don't want to try to live there.

That is my opinion.

[Thorham]

I totally respect your opinion but have to disagree.  

The Amiga is not modern... its a 20+ yr old system, an old system with charm, mind you, that many still love.

Actually, the word modern has two meanings in this context. The meaning that's apparently used most often is 'contemporary'. I should have looked that up

Anyway, what I mean is that the early eighties was more or less the start of the modern computer era. Before that time, computers were usually annoying to use. During the early eighties we saw machines that were nothing more than keyboard shaped boxes which you hooked up to the TV and of you went.

In this sense, todays tower systems are just the same: A box with chips hooked up to a monitor and your done. It's not about the speed, todays machines are simply faster, but the underlying principle of how the machine is used, and that has remained exactly the same.

Do not get performance into this. Take the Cray 1 (super computer from 1976. I think it gave you Pentium II performance for certain tasks. But it's a huge machine (and needs other bits as well, needs a hole room), annoying to use and has a power consumption of 15 kilowatts. This is a typical machine from before the modern computer age. Machines like the C64, Spectrum, and other 8bit systems put an end to this primitive way of doing things. Humongous improvement. After that we only got more of the same (except for laptops, pocket and tablet computers).

Just wanted to make it clear that I didn't mean contemporary or up to date, but being relevant in a certain period of time

[fishy_fiz]

Funny to see Photoshop used as an example of why the amiga isnt modern anymore....

I was doing a game creation centric 3 year course at uni a couple of years ago (c/c++, 3ds max, ai programming, flash, actionscript, photoshop, etc., etc.).
For the 2d graphics part I mostly worked from home on my amiga systems using amiga software while the vast, vast majoprity (everyone except one other guy who used psp) used Photoshop cs3 (maybe 4, but I think it was 3, was a few years ago) and lo and behold who do you think got the best marks for that class?  Me  
The comments attached to my work were something along the lines of, "nice professional, interesting work. A class above the usual generic looking work I receive".

[commodorejohn]

Tools are just tools, though - I'd imagine the big difference is your classmates spent their time Googling "kewl photoshop tr1ckz!!1" while you actually focused on making something.

[fishy_fiz]

Well that the thing,... tools are just tools, it's down to the user what he does with them. There's plenty of instances where a lack of bloat can be a plus and can produce decent, different results. Look around the net, there's a heck of a lot of stuff you can pick the tools used, and more often than not this isnt a good thing.

Best tool for the job, and in my humble opinion sometimes the amiga, even in this day and age is still up to the task (especially now that something akin to "retro" has become mainstream again).

Although I do have a decent Windows machine (i7-2600k, gf 570gtx), and actually enjoy it I'll still turn to my a1200 or amithlon/os3.9 box 1st as often as not.

Long story short, it all comes down to what a person does with a machine, and how well they know it and its software when it comes to how productive a person can be. I dont say this as a slur, but I do wonder how many people do much more than browsing, playing games, watching movies and a bit of tinkering sometimes.

[commodorejohn]

Quite so.

[Minuous]

>Maybe it was better this way. If it was still in the big markets it would probably have gone down to a bloated pice of cr*p just like most other comercial OSes available.

Hasn't it? Doesn't it now require some insane amount of RAM, 96Mb IIRC!?

[Middleman]

You sound like Barry.

I'm shocked too, yes he does indeed a bit (albeit scarily!). :lol:
 
(As you'll probably notice, this is my first post on A.org, so hi guys...nice to meetcha y'all!).

Using an Amiga is an experience....having been a computer enthusiast for over 30 years and a really really early Amiga user myself (back in '85 was the first time I fell in love with an A1000, given by a friend who was a computer reviewer in the UK) I can never shake off that feeling of switching on the machine and just look at and be excited by what was the build quality (solidity and usability) of what was 'Amiga'. I've gone through many computers since then (mostly Atari STs, consoles, PCs and Macs) but the one computer that I would never forget (and always cherish) was that veritable white A1000. The design was 10 years ahead of Power PC Macintoshes at the time and 20 years ahead of multimedia PC designs (that I know of). Even Windows didn't get a reasonable (usable) interface until Win 95 came out - so Commodore had it all (for a time). It was only the misfortunate software launch timings and financial mismanagement that caught them by surprise.

More than this, I feel that it was probably lack of engineering expertise or architecture 'roadmapping' that got Commodore where it hurt. Had someone like Steve Jobs been sought for advice or brought in to help direct or take a stake in the company, perhaps things would have looked different for Commodore since then.

But whatever, the past is the past, and facts cannot be changed. The most important though, even though the parent company is no longer here - is that the community today for Amiga is still alive...this is the most important. Without everyone's pitching in from many angles over the years (be it the emulators, OSes, spare parts/upgrades, Minimig hardware etc.), I don't think it could survive this long. Most important now is working together so that the community can benefit.

That said, I was a little saddened by Amiga Inc's stance against CUSA in not allowing AROS to be used and ported over to a modern PC machine bearing the words 'Amiga' - if it had, CUSA wouldn't have needed to go down the path of making their own Linux distro and this would have made everyone happy (that we get a 'modern' Amiga using the latest industry equipment on an established OS). I am not saying this because I am also a CUSA regular - it's just the truth. Perhaps if Amiga Inc. had taken a stake in the AROS project, it could have saved both companies. Amiga Inc. should learn to be more flexible I feel business-wise and not be so stubborn...look what happened with Apple when they moved over to Intel chips from Motorola. Nobody complained when they did...

[spirantho]

@Minuous

No, it hasn't. It's true AOS 4 uses more RAM to start up but that RAM is actually used usefully, not wasted. And the reason the apps seem to take up more RAM is simply because most of them are ports. If you use designed-for-AOS4 software like SimpleMail, it's almost as lean as AOS3.

@Middleman

First: welcome!

Second: I have to take issue with a tiny point, but please let's not let this get into a C=USA bashing thread - there's plenty of room for them elsewhere...

That said, I was a little saddened by Amiga Inc's stance against CUSA in not allowing AROS to be used and ported over to a modern PC machine bearing the words 'Amiga' - if it had, CUSA wouldn't have needed to go down the path of making their own Linux distro and this would have made everyone happy (that we get a 'modern' Amiga using the latest industry equipment on an established OS). I am not saying this because I am also a CUSA regular - it's just the truth.

That's not what happened, I'm afraid. There were quite a few reasons why C=USA didn't use AROS.

Barry is correct in that AROS isn't ready for mainstream workstation markets - he's not in it for a nostalgia OS, just a nostalgia case. He wanted a modern compatible system that looked old, which is fair enough. AROS is excellent, but I don't think anyone would pretend it's ready for the professional market yet, not least because of the lack of software.

The other reason, though, is that Barry obviously doesn't like AROS. He's made a number of very scathing and undeserved comments about AROS, which shows what he really thinks.

Blame Amiga Inc for many things, but not for this one, this is C=USA's choice. Remember they're not aiming at Amiga users, they're aiming at PC users who just like a bit of nostalgia.
A shame - if they'd run AROS I'd probably have been interested. If Amiga Inc had begged Barry to use AROS, he'd still have gone with Linux, I'm absolutely certain.