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Author Topic: AmigaOne X1000 booting AmigaOS4.1 Update 3  (Read 49299 times)

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Offline Tripitaka

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Re: AmigaOne X1000 booting AmigaOS4.1 Update 3
« Reply #164 from previous page: August 30, 2011, 01:45:42 PM »
If you exclude games consoles, and you shouldn't as they are very popular computer platforms. Granted they are very optimized for a specific purpose but mass chip sales still drives down prices whatever box they come in, console or otherwise. PowerPC is far from dead.
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Offline haywirepc

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Re: AmigaOne X1000 booting AmigaOS4.1 Update 3
« Reply #165 on: August 30, 2011, 02:09:43 PM »
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajlwalker
Here's another fact for you Steven. Your $50 PC doesn't run OS4.

Another advantage!
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Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: AmigaOne X1000 booting AmigaOS4.1 Update 3
« Reply #166 on: August 30, 2011, 02:59:39 PM »
Quote from: Tripitaka;656923
If you exclude games consoles, and you shouldn't as they are very popular computer platforms. Granted they are very optimized for a specific purpose but mass chip sales still drives down prices whatever box they come in, console or otherwise. PowerPC is far from dead.

Yes, I didn't mean that the PPC per se is dead, only its use in the kind of applications that's interesting to us. Apple were the last desktop and laptop manufacturer, and since Apple left, the whole PPC business changed focus. The future for PPC is in various embedded applications now, routers, printer servers, automotive, etc (and by all means, game consoles).

Already at this moment, ARM chips (Cortex A9) are *on par* with PPC G4 performance wise, and upcoming Cortex A15 will introduce a whole new level of performance and features, making it suitable for servers/desktops etc. And in a few years from now, nVidia will release their own ARM CPU's, what they themselves call "x86 killers", especially targeted towards high-end desktop, workstation and server markets. More manufacturers are bound to follow, that's the beauty of ARM's license based business model. And even Microsoft is on the train, and will release Windows 8 for ARM! So ARM definitely has its future ahead of it! :)
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Offline haywirepc

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Re: AmigaOne X1000 booting AmigaOS4.1 Update 3
« Reply #167 on: August 30, 2011, 03:27:32 PM »
The future of arm indeed looks bright. I think nvidia just may be right about it being an intel killer, especially if the price versus performance issue is what it appears it will be.
 
Would be nice to see a 20 or 30 core or processor based arm desktop. Considering the prices this will be likely in less time than you think.
 
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Offline kolla

Re: AmigaOne X1000 booting AmigaOS4.1 Update 3
« Reply #168 on: August 30, 2011, 03:37:13 PM »
Quote from: haywirepc;656933
Would be nice to see a 20 or 30 core or processor based arm desktop.


You do know that more cores doesnt make anything go faster? And the more cores you add, the more "administrative" overhead there will be for the OS.
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Offline nicholas

Re: AmigaOne X1000 booting AmigaOS4.1 Update 3
« Reply #169 on: August 30, 2011, 03:46:48 PM »
Quote from: kolla;656935
You do know that more cores doesnt make anything go faster? And the more cores you add, the more "administrative" overhead there will be for the OS.

It depends on what OS you are running.  BeOS/Haiku perform noticeably better the more CPU cores one has, due to the pervasive multi-threading throughout the entire OS.
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Offline Hammer

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Re: AmigaOne X1000 booting AmigaOS4.1 Update 3
« Reply #170 on: August 30, 2011, 04:06:31 PM »
Quote from: dreamcast270mhz;656836
@haywirepc

If you want x86 or ARM, you're free to use AROS. OS4 and MOS are just fine as they are on PowerPC, and nothing is going to change that for the present.

I personally dislike the fact that people here feel the need to go to the red or the blue and change them. AROS does what you want, just leave blue and red alone. In the case of Blue, we have a defined roadmap for the present and we arent going to change that. Red, they seem to be more than a little turbid in terms of where to go, but there are sales for them. So, AROS, either buy the needed hardware to run MOS or OS4 or you're free to use what you want on AROS.

Also, there is the Megahertz myth. All things considered, the megahertz have little to do with speed. I can watch 720p video on My G4 mac, it runs circles on computers owned by my computer consultant friend, including his brand new machine he built.

My old AMD Turion MT-34 1.8Ghz laptop can play 720p WMV-HD i.e. Step_Into_Liquid.wmv test file goes beyond 720p.

At a given clockspeed and general application benchmarks, Intel Core 2 Duo (Solo mode) beats your PowerPC G4 type CPUs, let alone Intel's Core I series Nehalem and Sandybridge type CPU cores.

My AMD C-50 APU (1.0Ghz dual core bobcat+Radeon HD 6250M (SIMD Array)) based Acer Iconia W500 tablet plays 1080p H.264 Blu-Rays just fine.

On the Wintel PC and for CPU base decode, use CoreCodec or disable DXVA (check box in Cyberlink's H.264 codecs) or use broken/non-standard H.264 videos i.e. my tablet plays them just fine.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2011, 04:23:47 PM by Hammer »
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Offline Tripitaka

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Re: AmigaOne X1000 booting AmigaOS4.1 Update 3
« Reply #171 on: August 30, 2011, 04:08:06 PM »
It's great to see a British chip company doing so well and just for the record, I have to agree that ARM is the way to go. If I could have it all my own way I would make Natami an official product whilst developing an OS4 ARM system and an add-in ARM CPU board for the Natami too. This would give the best of "classic/os3.9" with Natami followed by ARM OS4 with the add-in Natami ARM card bridging the two platforms.
This would also bridge nicely between a true hobby platform with Natami and something truly commercial with a new ARM based machine.

....but they didn't ask me. :(
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Offline Hammer

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Re: AmigaOne X1000 booting AmigaOS4.1 Update 3
« Reply #172 on: August 30, 2011, 04:25:12 PM »
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;656930
Yes, I didn't mean that the PPC per se is dead, only its use in the kind of applications that's interesting to us. Apple were the last desktop and laptop manufacturer, and since Apple left, the whole PPC business changed focus. The future for PPC is in various embedded applications now, routers, printer servers, automotive, etc (and by all means, game consoles).

Already at this moment, ARM chips (Cortex A9) are *on par* with PPC G4 performance wise, and upcoming Cortex A15 will introduce a whole new level of performance and features, making it suitable for servers/desktops etc. And in a few years from now, nVidia will release their own ARM CPU's, what they themselves call "x86 killers", especially targeted towards high-end desktop, workstation and server markets. More manufacturers are bound to follow, that's the beauty of ARM's license based business model. And even Microsoft is on the train, and will release Windows 8 for ARM! So ARM definitely has its future ahead of it! :)


NVIDIA hasn't proven themselves to be "fat" OOO CPU designers and NVIDIA has to be carefull with OOO CPU patents...

On core vs core, Cortex A9 is dual instruction issue per cycle lite OOO CPU that implements 64 bit SIMD hardware i.e. like SSE before Intel Core 2, ARM's Neon ISA is 128bits wide while the hardware is 64bits.. G4  implements 128bit SIMD hardware. The one of the main problem with old G4 is with it's slow FSB.

PS; K8 Athlon implements 128bit FADD SSE1 in hardware. AMD Bulldozer implements FMA4 which is superior to ARM/PPC's FMA3 format.
AMD Bobcat and Bulldozer cores implements pointer based register rename trick i.e. similar to Cortex A9's register renaming trick.

Note that AMD's GCN (GPU Core Next, Radeon HD 7000 series) includes AMD64/X86-64 IP i.e. AMD is building it's own X86-64 based Larrabee.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2011, 01:22:00 AM by Hammer »
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Offline commodorejohn

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Re: AmigaOne X1000 booting AmigaOS4.1 Update 3
« Reply #173 on: August 30, 2011, 05:04:39 PM »
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;656930
Yes, I didn't mean that the PPC per se is dead, only its use in the kind of applications that's interesting to us. Apple were the last desktop and laptop manufacturer, and since Apple left, the whole PPC business changed focus. The future for PPC is in various embedded applications now, routers, printer servers, automotive, etc (and by all means, game consoles).
Eh, these things tend to move in cycles. ARM, for instance, was Acorn's desktop architecture, then Acorn's desktop line died off and it found its bread and butter in embedded applications for many years, then it started popping up in handheld devices (GBA, iPhone and now just about every smartphone,) and all of a sudden it's popular again and possibly on the verge of breaking back into the (low-end) desktop market. PPC has already gone from desktop to embedded to game consoles, who's to say it won't make a similar comeback?
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Offline kolla

Re: AmigaOne X1000 booting AmigaOS4.1 Update 3
« Reply #174 on: August 30, 2011, 05:30:42 PM »
Quote from: nicholas;656936
It depends on what OS you are running.
Of course.

Quote
BeOS/Haiku perform noticeably better the more CPU cores one has, due to the pervasive multi-threading throughout the entire OS.


But is the software used by the user also equally multi-threaded? And how does Haiku perform on a 32 core system vs. a 16 core system? It's not unheard of that systems become slower at a certain number of cores, simply because the administrative overhead gets too much.
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Offline commodorejohn

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Re: AmigaOne X1000 booting AmigaOS4.1 Update 3
« Reply #175 on: August 30, 2011, 05:56:07 PM »
Quote from: kolla;656962
And how does Haiku perform on a 32 core system vs. a 16 core system? It's not unheard of that systems become slower at a certain number of cores, simply because the administrative overhead gets too much.
32? 16? John Paul II on a pogo stick, where are you buying your hardware!? Last I checked consumer CPUs generally have yet to break 8 unless you get into high-end workstation/server chips... :D
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Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: AmigaOne X1000 booting AmigaOS4.1 Update 3
« Reply #176 on: August 30, 2011, 06:01:02 PM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;656956
Eh, these things tend to move in cycles. ARM, for instance, was Acorn's desktop architecture, then Acorn's desktop line died off and it found its bread and butter in embedded applications for many years, then it started popping up in handheld devices (GBA, iPhone and now just about every smartphone,) and all of a sudden it's popular again and possibly on the verge of breaking back into the (low-end) desktop market. PPC has already gone from desktop to embedded to game consoles, who's to say it won't make a similar comeback?


It's not "a cycle thing".

ARM's design allow low power consumption and cool computing. That was an enabler for mobile devices, an area which has had a tremendous growth. That, coupled with ARM's license based business model that allows companies to combine ARM's core design with other controllers to make their own CPU chips, is what really makes the opportunity. Look at Apple (with iPhone and iPad - all ARM!) and the Tegra based devices (and most other mobile devices as well). The future ARM designs scales heavily upwards in performance, while still being low Watt and low temp, and nVidia (and probably others as well) will really create a big bang when they release the really high performance stuff. Rumors has it that Apple has an ARM based laptop coming soon. Windows 8 (and Office, etc) will be ARM. It will boom, it will cover everything to the tiniest, most ultra mobile device, up to the fattest workstation and servers, and it will be the same ISA.

http://blogs.nvidia.com/2011/01/project-denver-processor-to-usher-in-new-era-of-computing/

nVidia: "Denver frees PCs, workstations and servers from the hegemony and inefficiency of the x86 architecture. For several years, makers of high-end computing platforms have had no choice about instruction-set architecture. The only option was the x86 instruction set with variable-length instructions, a small register set, and other features that interfered with modern compiler optimizations, required a larger area for instruction decoding, and substantially reduced energy efficiency.

Denver provides a choice. System builders can now choose a high-performance processor based on a RISC instruction set with modern features such as fixed-width instructions, predication, and a large general register file. These features enable advanced compiler techniques and simplify implementation, ultimately leading to higher performance and a more energy-efficient processor.

Microsoft’s announcement that it is bringing Windows to ultra-low power processors like ARM-based CPUs provides the final ingredient needed to enable ARM-based PCs based on Denver. Along with software stacks based on Android, Symbian, and iOS, Windows for ultra-low power processors demonstrates the huge momentum behind low-power solutions that will ultimately propel the ARM architecture to dominance."


But that's "Denver", a future thing - But do you want to see "Windows 8" (development version of Windows) running on *current* ARM-technology?

Well, Fast Forward to 1.10:

[youtube]lRPh4kJpeSA[/youtube]

I'm sorry, but I don't see remotely the same momentum happening on the PPC platform.

Apple was the last one who left. Now it's all about routers and automotive. Which is a huge market as well, but hardly very interesting to us...
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Offline commodorejohn

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Re: AmigaOne X1000 booting AmigaOS4.1 Update 3
« Reply #177 on: August 30, 2011, 06:22:48 PM »
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;656966
I'm sorry, but I don't see remotely the same momentum happening on the PPC platform.
Of course you don't see it, it isn't happening at the moment. And I'm not saying it will, either - I'm just saying, don't rule out the possibility. The architecture is still around and has been gaining traction in the console market since the release of the PS2 (going from one console to total market dominance in the space of a single generation.) It may make a comeback or it may not, but I think it's still within the realm of possibility. ARM is the Next Big Thing at the moment, but so was multi-core x86 before it, and back in the mists of time (a.k.a. the mid-'90s,) so was PPC. Things change, often in ways you wouldn't expect.
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Offline persia

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Re: AmigaOne X1000 booting AmigaOS4.1 Update 3
« Reply #178 on: August 30, 2011, 06:36:23 PM »
My Mac Pro has 12.

Quote from: commodorejohn;656965
32? 16? John Paul II on a pogo stick, where are you buying your hardware!? Last I checked consumer CPUs generally have yet to break 8 unless you get into high-end workstation/server chips... :D
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Offline Jpan1

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Re: AmigaOne X1000 booting AmigaOS4.1 Update 3
« Reply #179 on: August 30, 2011, 06:54:54 PM »
My Amiga boot's up in a a few seconds and that's what I like about it although I don't have many complex programs running on it. I think any OS will take time to boot up but maybe they could just have it on the chip rather than software? OS 4.1 still takes less time than Window XP, so at a first glance it looks ok :)