Timberwolf Progress Update

[jorkany]

Hooligan

You are completely wrong in what you are saying. FF 4 port could attract new users. How this can be denied is beyond me.. obviously nothing "commercial" will come from the platform.. (and by "commercial" i think you mean "industrial" )

Why would a port of FF attract new users? You can run FF for free on a number of platforms already, on hardware that is readily available for well under the $$$ you would sink into an OS4 system. You don't even have to get into the fact that Timberwolf is not going to be keeping up with FF, and maybe is not even going to be maintained much at all - the alpha has been around since what, 2009 and the Friedens just recently decided to ****can it and start over. Why would such a version of FF be attractive to anyone? Because it's fun to struggle with things that don't quite work right, take forever to get fixed, and new features available on every other platform don't get incorporated?

Get a grip, man.

[AmigaNG]

Is it just me, or are a few MorpthOS fans getting a bit high and mighty.

To me its as simple as
Timberwolf is great news for AmigaOS4 users/fans and
Odyssey is great news for MorphOS users/fans.

so whats the problem?

[Crumb]

Is it just me, or are a few MorpthOS fans getting a bit high and mighty.

To me its as simple as
Timberwolf is great news for AmigaOS4 users/fans and
Odyssey is great news for MorphOS users/fans.

so whats the problem?

The problem is that Firefox port is still very alpha and some people think that a quick port like Firefox is comparable to a proper browser like Odissey. Firefox on any amiga platform is good news but comparing it to a proper browser is not a very balanced view

[kickstart]

Is it just me, or are a few MorpthOS fans getting a bit high and mighty.

To me its as simple as
Timberwolf is great news for AmigaOS4 users/fans and
Odyssey is great news for MorphOS users/fans.

so whats the problem?

Odyssey is running on morphos for many time and running fine, timberwolf is another project full of promises without any reality, thats the "problem".

[unusedunused]

Hooligan

You are completely wrong in what you are saying. FF 4 port could attract new users. How this can be denied is beyond me.. obviously nothing "commercial" will come from the platform.. (and by "commercial" i think you mean "industrial" )

I dont think that the friedens are able to make a really usable and stable firefox, same as other platforms have.they can maybe hold some more OS4 Fans  by giving hope of a firefox.OS4 is far behind, and when there was not the big firefox announce, then only OS4 OWB can not hold users on OS4 i think.

I never see from the friedens a rock solid and complete program or game Port mainted they do in their free time.Can you tell me 1 ?

on amigaworld this was explain more.here is a link.

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=29160&forum=2&start=40&viewmode=flat&order=0#499600

the friedens begin before OWB silent a firefox port(the amizilla was opensource and work too a little), it work a little on OS4, they fail to get it stable, and Andrea take over firefox.He fail too to make it stable and he deicde to do OWB.

then we can see since OWB for MOS have more features as OS4 OWB, suddenly they do a big announce that a firefox should come and collect money for it.

but i see this only as a poker trick, so people inverst money in OS4 instead of other systems.

now it seem near 2 years ago and OS4 still have no stable working firefox Port.

and if somebody announce alone a closed source firefox is not very good moral.many people have spend work in firefox, that it is easy portable to other platforms for free.the amizilla sources were here
I dont know any other than friedens that make out of this firefox work a closed source ripoff

If the friedens can compile it since long time, but it not run stable show me that something is bad in OS4 or are not able to do that.if a OS dev really like to use a firefox on his OS and decide to do a Port, it cant take so long time in compileable but unstable phase.

I only see in my experience, when can compile a Unix program, it run normaly stable.

remember, those portable programs are written, to use very few OS functions, so there need not much functions for AOS add.

remember also.this programs are written that a user can compile the program and when it compile the user can be sure, that the program work in same way stable as on other platforms.

but when you look on OS4 you see always long develop time.

remember how fast Blender for MOS was here and if i remember correct MOS have a actual 2.5 blender now.

On OS4 dev go slow and blender is old.
same happen with firefox.

so wy should OS4 attract non OS4 Fans, when they have no actual firefox...
I see the OS4 firefox only as a teaser that users leave not OS4 and spend money in other systems.....

EDIT:

I write this post with a firefox 5 Final.I update it some weeks.i dont see wy i should use firefox 4.firefox 5 is tell as faster....

EDIT2:

and if a actual port can not do with a simple new compile, or in at least 1-2 hours of work, then the Port is really bad.
and this happen on very much OS4 Ports, so no OS4 user can simple compile newest sources and it work stable.So many OS4 Ports are outdate.
The updates of Linux distributions, are not done from developers, they are done from users, or automatic

when see the MOS OWB, this is a good port, because it can update to newest webkit core.
and when remember MOS OWB is much more amiga specific as timberwolf and also MOS have much less Unix in core as OS4.
So in theory OS4 port must be faster, but it seem the opposite is true

[AmigaNG]

Come on guys give them a break, they are working on peanuts to try and bring a much needed app/feature to their chosen platform, it may not turn out to be the right decision to port such a large complex program as Firefox and it might of been easier to help develop OWB OS4 version more or start a new browser from scratch but this is what they choose to do. And I think any effort like this should be commended...ON ANY AMIGA inspired system.

Plus all this talk of Odyssey being better than Timberwolf is completely nuts when Timberwolf is not even past Alpha stage, but even at this early version it basically works (just) hopefully the rewrite will massively improve performance and stability, at least give them a chance to get a proper release out.

Then I guess if you still feel the need to bash people spare time efforts to try and help befit the OS4 user, then be my guess. (sad gits).

[unusedunused]

Come on guys give them a break, they are working on peanuts to try and bring a much needed app/feature to their chosen platform.

now the friedens try to get firefox run for OS4 overall since 5-6 years.How much years should wait now for a stable firefox ?

I dont know anyone that want port firefox that have need such a long time to make a alpha Version stable.

its easy to make a working alpha firefox out of the amizilla sources and announce.nspr ist not change since years.but sure now that the friedens want do their own firefox, wy should another continue work on amizilla.that the friedens can catch the work and get the money...
amizilla have problem to debug, and i am sure with enhanced ixemul thread safe, all can work better.but i do not try it.I really hate when there is no working together possible, and double work is need.

same is with the open office announces for OS4.

but the guys on other AOS are too brave to announce such a thing when they dont know if they can really reach the goal in acceptable time alone

But i think when other AOS announce nice things, then the OS4 announce more nicer things.

for example what happen with Real 3d and candy factory or Dopus magellan on OS4 ?
all this stuff was in the early days a hope that OS4 is better than other AOS, so more see hope in OS4 and spend money in OS4 instead of other AOS.

I see in OS4 lots of the opensource code, is make close source for OS4, but on other hand OS4 devs can  look and or use AROS code or other code.

parts in OS4 that are opensource and make close source are newlib, Cairo, Python, firefox.

I think without OS4, in amiga land is lots better working together possible and other developers produce better OS features for the given money as the OS4 devs.and this help the amiga to attracht more user, if a AOS have more features and does not cost so much money.

it does not help when lots money flow into a system that is too expensive.

thats same as if you want invest lots money to trainee lame horses, they never can reach any price....

but OS4 survive since long time and get money, the OS4 devs should really really thanks alot that they have such Fans that support them.

[spirantho]

Let's not forget here:
a) The Friedens are very busy on the OS itself. If they don't work on it, they get yelled at.
b) When they started for the first time on FF, the OS wasn't ready.
c) Then when the OS was ready, they started and got a working build out of it. At this point FF went to the next major version. Therefore if they continued work, they'd get yelled at because FF was already outdated and therefore useless.
d) Now the OS is ready and FF isn't going to go to a new version, they've been able to get good progress, and will release a demo shortly, they say.

It's all very well saying "oh they're useless because they can't even get FF running", but you're massively underestimating the work involved and the complexity of the situation they're in. Odyssey may be very good, but the writer didn't also have to keep another 4 Amiga camps happy at the same time, did he?

[jorkany]

Let's not forget here:
a) The Friedens are very busy on the OS itself. If they don't work on it, they get yelled at.
b) When they started for the first time on FF, the OS wasn't ready.
c) Then when the OS was ready, they started and got a working build out of it. At this point FF went to the next major version. Therefore if they continued work, they'd get yelled at because FF was already outdated and therefore useless.
d) Now the OS is ready and FF isn't going to go to a new version, they've been able to get good progress, and will release a demo shortly, they say.

It's all very well saying "oh they're useless because they can't even get FF running", but you're massively underestimating the work involved and the complexity of the situation they're in. Odyssey may be very good, but the writer didn't also have to keep another 4 Amiga camps happy at the same time, did he?

Timberwolf is for OS4 only, there is no "keep another 4(?) Amiga camps happy". Also if you think the Friedens give a **** about anything other than OS4, you need to up the meds. They would be perfectly happy if real Amiga, MOS and AROS all sank to the bottom of the ocean.

[Fab]

Odyssey may be very good, but the writer didn't also have to keep another 4 Amiga camps happy at the same time, did he?

Well, I provided OWB sources and  gave my help to port it to OS4. And if AROS people are willing to (and that Zune is up to the task), i have no problem doing the same for it.

As for a 68k port, considering the requirements of WebKit, I'm not sure it makes much sense, except for UAE users, but is it really needed? They can just use the browser from the host machine then.

[klx300r]

Come on guys give them a break, they are working on peanuts to try and bring a much needed app/feature to their chosen platform... (sad gits).

don't bother with the usual naysayers mate.  I use Firefox and Thunderbird daily on my PC notebook & looking forward to using them with Amiga OS4.x  too:)

let the whiners whine and the doers do

[spirantho]

Timberwolf is for OS4 only, there is no "keep another 4(?) Amiga camps happy". Also if you think the Friedens give a **** about anything other than OS4, you need to up the meds. They would be perfectly happy if real Amiga, MOS and AROS all sank to the bottom of the ocean.

Sorry, I didn't mean that. To me the Amiga camp is the OS4 crew, nothing else.
What I meant was that some parts of the OS4 users think the OS is most important (and require development on that), some think the browser is most important - so work should be on that. Some think OpenGL, some think USB2....

Point is, whatever they do, there's only a few of them and a LOT of things to work on, and people will always complain when they're not working on whatever it is they think they should be.

[jj]

USB2 , that still makes me laugh.

[nicholas]

Well, I provided OWB sources and  gave my help to port it to OS4. And if AROS people are willing to (and that Zune is up to the task), i have no problem doing the same for it.

As for a 68k port, considering the requirements of WebKit, I'm not sure it makes much sense, except for UAE users, but is it really needed? They can just use the browser from the host machine then.

Amithlon users would love a port of Odyssey browser!

[samo79]

the amizilla sources were here
I dont know any other than friedens that make out of this firefox work a closed source ripoff

The Amizilla source never exists so your conspiracy theory (ripoff) is just wrong

If the friedens can compile it since long time, but it not run stable show me that something is bad in OS4 or are not able to do that.if a OS dev really like to use a firefox on his OS and decide to do a Port, it cant take so long time in compileable but unstable phase.

That's wrong too, the Friedens bros release only an alpha version and then after a while they decide to stop it waiting for the 4.0 official release

I only see in my experience, when can compile a Unix program, it run normaly stable.

Do you think that port a program such Firefox will be just a compile and go ?

remember how fast Blender for MOS was here and if i remember correct MOS have a actual 2.5 blender now.

Blender on OS4 work just fine, the reason why on MorphOS you have also 2.5 is only because the Blender author release also a new Phyton for pubblic usage
To use Blender 2.5 under OS4 you must wait for an OS4 update instead, that's it

So many OS4 Ports are outdate.

Outdate port ?
Please give me a list

when see the MOS OWB, this is a good port, because it can update to newest webkit core.

Even Reaction OWB can be synchronized with the webkit port.
Aniway OWB MUI run also on AmigaOS4, the port is ready and done

[unusedunused]

Well, I provided OWB sources and  gave my help to port it to OS4. And if AROS people are willing to (and that Zune is up to the task), i have no problem doing the same for it.

As for a 68k port, considering the requirements of WebKit, I'm not sure it makes much sense, except for UAE users, but is it really needed? They can just use the browser from the host machine then.

there is also natami here.now 2 more developers get a board.peterk (i guess its peter keuneke)do btw some fpu stuff on winuae and i write some mails with him also with AFA or iconbefast, i dont think that he make vapor announces.so seem natami can get reality.

http://www.natami.net/knowledge.php?b=1¬e=41108

I am a lazy boy, but if there is a browser possible in a few hours for AOS, which can play videos and most site work, i like to use it on winuae.

You have speedup OWB, maybe it is faster now as netsurf.

Can somebody who have MOS OWB and a Peg with 1 GHZ CPU tell what render time this page need ?

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=649724&postcount=146

Can also tell time when page is offline

Here are some values of 68k netsurf and OS4 netsurf on some machines.

@klx300r
>let the whiners whine and the doers do

The problem is the doers do nothing visible.they only do a big hype.A amizilla alpha was here since several years, so whats on OS4 side currently is no progress.

Only the Marketing about firefox have increase alot, since MOS OWB is better than OS4 OWB.

and people as me tell that they think this is only simular as a poker trick.
maybe this motivate the friedens to show that they are really able to do that and do not just simple poker tricks to get more money and users for OS4.

same is real3d and dopus magellan, candy factory, that should come only for OS4, i see that too as simple poker tricks to show users, OS4 have better future, so they buy it

if timberwolf never get to a stable version its waste time.

nobody want use a buggy firefox.and a buggy and old timberwolf does not attract more users i think

And there are many guys that dont like a system that is promote with announces that seems like simple poker tricks.guys think the devs have no morale.and maybe dont want OS4.

For me this many unrealistic announces are a main reason, wy i never ever want use OS4.luckily there are other solutions..
same is  on the X1000 too

Or can you explain wy in dec. 2009 Hyperion want release a full system before summer, and suddenly when the time is over  they call for 100 betatesters that should buy this Hardware with preorder.
wy have they not know that before release 100 betatesters are need to test the Hardware better ?

What do you think ?

on other side, when look on acube, there hardware is slow and expensive, but i think their marketing ok