Aos 3 -> aos 4

[drHirudo]

And OS4 has the same browser MOS does (thanks to Fab).

Firefox?

[Piru]

Firefox?

Hmm can't be that: Perhaps you mean this linux^H^H^H^H^Hamiga app called timberwolf?

What's up with this "dll hell" anyway? Doesn't sound very "amiga" to me.

This is just wrong. This is not amiga. I'll take OS and apps that use proper amiga libraries and not some kind of half-as*ed shared object implementation borrowed from linux (on OS4 they aren't even shared, each opener gets their own copy.. fail!). It just can't work without package manager with proper dependency system. This will end badly: "Its just a case of duplicating the listed sobjs in the sobjs drawer and renaming them to match. Once you have done this try again." or "Just make a duplicate copy of it and rename the duplicate to the above and repeat with the other files which are missing.".

Proper shared libraries with per-opener static data are well possible as is proven by numerous such libraries existing in for example in amigaos 3.x and MorphOS. Why AmigaOS4 "designers" chose this lazy route with non-shared shared objects is beyond me.

[Franko]

Hi,

@Franko,

Heck I will go one better, OS 4.1 is slower then a dead snail with it's slime missing. It multi-tasks like a 1987 MAC, and is actually worse than Windows 3.1, and you are right, you need a PPC board (which I have) and a graphics card (still looking) so if anyone has a bvision graphics card out there that they want to get rid of like super cheap, let me know.

smerf

Hi Smerf...

Wow... dead snails with their slime missing are as rare as a three legged tortoise nailed to a skateboard with a rocket up it ass...

Which is equally as rare as a bloody Bvision Gfx card and I baggsed it first so got to the back of the que ...

Cheers

oknarF

[obscurepanic]

Some people want the real Amiga so they can run real Amiga software on real Amiga hardware. OS4 doesn't bring any of that to the table.

I hope some developers make a new m68k microprocessor. I still like single-core CISC. :hammer:

[commodorejohn]

I hope some developers make a new m68k microprocessor. I still like single-core CISC. :hammer:

Me too 68k might not be up to modern standards these days, but it's still a lot of fun to code for.

[Iggy]

Firefox?

Timberwolf. Not yet.
OWB

[redfox]

@HotRod

I'd like to know why people using AOS 3 doesn't jump on the AOS 4 train? What is holding you back exactly?

I made the jump to AOS4 at the end of 2004.
 
We purchased our Commodore Amiga 2000HD in about 1989-1990 with AmigaOS 1.3.  Later upgraded to AmigaOS 3.1.  It did not have an accelerator card, so our system ran on the 68000 CPU.  Our AOS 3.1 Workbench was fairly simple with a nice background picture and no extra eye candy.  All the programs had to work with the 68000 CPU.  I was using AWeb and AmiTCP/IP for internet over a dial-up modem at 19.2Kbps.

I have never owned an A3000 or A4000 or A1200.

My wife and I had the A2000HD and some X86 PC's.  My wife and son were no longer interested in Amiga stuff.  They used Microsoft Windows.  I was using the old A2000HD and running QNX on one of the X86 PC's.  I became interested in MorphOS and OS4, but I could not afford to purchase two complete systems.
 
At the end of 2004, I purchased my MicroAmigaOne (MicroA1-C) with AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release.  Since then I have gone through many updates and currently run AmigaOS 4.1 Update 2.

---
redfox

[drHirudo]

Hmm can't be that: Perhaps you mean this linux^H^H^H^H^Hamiga app called timberwolf?

What's up with this "dll hell" anyway? Doesn't sound very "amiga" to me.

This is just wrong. This is not amiga. I'll take OS and apps that use proper amiga libraries and not some kind of half-as*ed shared object implementation borrowed from linux (on OS4 they aren't even shared, each opener gets their own copy.. fail!). It just can't work without package manager with proper dependency system. This will end badly: "Its just a case of duplicating the listed sobjs in the sobjs drawer and renaming them to match. Once you have done this try again." or "Just make a duplicate copy of it and rename the duplicate to the above and repeat with the other files which are missing.".

Proper shared libraries with per-opener static data are well possible as is proven by numerous such libraries existing in for example in amigaos 3.x and MorphOS. Why AmigaOS4 "designers" chose this lazy route with non-shared shared objects is beyond me.

I would prefer some Linux port working straight on my AmigaOS than having to reboot into Linux or MacOS X just to be able to use Firefox extension that is lacking an AmigaOS equivalent. But may be this is just me, because the MorphOS people would prefer to have MacOS handy when they need to. If I need to change the OS I would prefer Windows over MacOS anytime, because Windows software is much more compatible with itself and there is much more Windows software available (for free or paid) than for MacOS. Many of the Windows apps I had to use are Linux ports (Cygwin or native), but as long as they work, nobody cares from where they come. Hey, thanks to Linux I was able to port some of my games to Windows and MacOS with simple recompile (they are coded on Amiga), so I have nothing against Linux at the moment.

Nice that you are linking thread to a person who is enjoying his Sam460.

May be I shall create a thread with my MorphOS experience on PowerBook ---> Total FAIL, but I have OS X so I did not miss anything.

BTW Firefox works on my machine - AmigaOS 4 Update 2
AmigaOS 4 does not run on Mac machines - but the latest version runs on classic Amiga machines, so the developers wouldn't need to recompile their apps for old machines and new machines (MorphOS 1.x something vs MorphOS 2.x something). On the other hand my Mac games work fine on MacOS X Tiger, but refuse to work on MacOS Snow Leopard (scratches head, go figure), while the Windows compiles does not have any problems with the different Windows versions even if I did not used official Windows devkit, like I did on the Mac.

[Iggy]

BTW Firefox works on my machine - AmigaOS 4 Update 2

No, it doesn't. Timberwolf does.
And right now most OS4 users are using a version of OWB ported from MorphOS.
I think most developers (like Piru) object to ports that rely on the use of packages like Cygwin or sloppy recoding for Windows dll dependencies.

May be I shall create a thread with my MorphOS experience on PowerBook  ---> Total FAIL, but I have OS X so I did not miss anything.

That would be silly. MorphOS doesn't run on Powerbooks (yet).
You were foolish enough to try?

Nice that you are linking thread to a person who is enjoying his Sam460.

Why? Do you think WE have some prejudice?
I like hearing about developments in the second best PPC OS for amiga users.

I
AmigaOS 4 does not run on Mac machines - but the latest version runs on  classic Amiga machines, so the developers wouldn't need to recompile  their apps for old machines and new machines

AmigaOS 4 does not run on Mac machines - except for that version that leaked out for the Mac Mini

the latest version runs on  classic Amiga machines - no, it runs on machines expanded with third party PPC accelerators

so the developers wouldn't need to recompile  their apps for old machines and new machines - Both OS4 and MorphOS will run some legacy apps without recompilation, but far from all of them. And if you're running on a legacy Amiga (with a third party PPC accelerator) you're going to need to reboot to OS3.X to run the rest.

Why are OS4 users so defensive?
Is it because most OS3.X users don't want the product?
Or that when OS3.X users examine PPC OS', they frequently choose MorphOS (over OS4)?

[drHirudo]

No, it doesn't. Timberwolf does.
And right now most OS4 users are using a version of OWB ported from MorphOS.

I don't. Actually the OWB first came to Amiga, then the Morphosians (one of them I believe) developed it and later it was ported to AmigaOS based on the MorphOS port. OWB is MorphOS app, since when? OWB is non Amiga app that MOSes are proud of, yes/no? Why they are not proud about the Voyager browser, that was developed by some MorphOS developer?

I think most developers (like Piru) object to ports that rely on the use of packages like Cygwin or sloppy recoding for Windows dll dependencies.

Better have such port, than having to reboot into another OS. You don't need to install these ports if you don't want to. But you can Install them and work with AmigaOS 4. On the AROS and MOS you can not, simply because they don't exist. You mention the fellow who opened threads here about his triple, quadriple or whateveriple booting Mac machine. That's the Amiga way of doing things, right - you need some app, you reboot into another OS and then use it. Later you don't need this app - reboot again in Linux, then MorphOS, MacOS. Just like the 2.0 times when we softkicked 1.3 to be able to play the old games. This is sooooo 1990-ies. Good that Amiga had WHDLoad and JST so the constant reboots where avoided at least for games. For AROS, AmigaOS 3.x and MOS users seems the reboots are still necessary. On AmigaOS 4 there is glUAE. On my AmigaOne I have installed only AmigaOS 4, I don't need to quadriple boot.

That would be silly. MorphOS doesn't run on Powerbooks (yet).
You were foolish enough to try?

It was demonstrated on shows, so I decided to give it a try. It was announced back in 2009. Sneak preview on Amiga.org
(almost 2 years ago). Fast development?

Why? Do you think WE have some prejudice?
I like hearing about developments in the second best PPC OS for amiga users.

May be because in every thread about AmigaOS 4, the MorphOS is brought, while it is totally irrelevant. MOS is even more limited than AmigaOS 4. Most of the users however did not had the chance to try both AmigaOS 4 and MOS on same hardware to judge by themselves.

AmigaOS 4 does not run on Mac machines - except for that version that leaked out for the Mac Mini

Broken version. Probably as much working as the MOS version for Powerbooks?

the latest version runs on  classic Amiga machines - no, it runs on machines expanded with third party PPC accelerators

Blah, blah, blah. There are hardware requirements. Some games does not run on 512 KB Amigas. Probably they are not Amiga games by your definition.

so the developers wouldn't need to recompile  their apps for old machines and new machines - Both OS4 and MorphOS will run some legacy apps without recompilation, but far from all of them. And if you're running on a legacy Amiga (with a third party PPC accelerator) you're going to need to reboot to OS3.X to run the rest.

If I want to use AmigaOS 4.1 library functions, I don't need to recompile my software for AmigaOS 4.0 if I want it to run on classic Amiga machines. Because AmigaOS 4.1 is available for classic Amiga machines. With MOS it is not the same case.

Why are OS4 users so defensive?
Is it because most OS3.X users don't want the product?
Or that when OS3.X users examine PPC OS', they frequently choose MorphOS (over OS4).

Defensive? I point obvious mistakes that are always brought to the forums, but as long as you have your AmigaOS 3 machine sitting next to your PC or Mac, I guess you don't need to upgrade.

[Kronos]

@drHirudo

Fab's OWB is only OWB by name (and I'm quite sure you know that). It's a MUI-browser useing WebKit and as such stands on the same level for being it's own browser as Safari or Chrome.

LimberWolf ? Seen it, and for everyday browsing I'd rather take Voyager,IBrowse or even Aweb (yuk). There is a reason why most OS4-users had 2 or more browsers handy, none of them was good enough to get you through the day.

MorphOS-PowerBook support was not ANNOUNCED in 2009, actually I'm quite sure it's not even announced today...... See that the difference with the MorphOS-team, they do show quite open what they are working on but the also make it 100% clear that they can't&won't promise specific features/release-dates while still early in the development-cycle.

OS4.1 on PuP exist for 2 reasons (which boil down to 1 if you think about it):
1) lots of the pro-Hyperion crowd have never made the investment in a OS4-supported nextgen

2) Hyperion can't make money of the X1000 yet (well assuming the prepay-scheme-money wasn't redirected) and the SAMs aren't selling in high enough numbers.

Wether it makes sense to waste resources on 10-15 year old HW needing 15-20 year old motherboards performing on a level that wasn't impressive even back than is another question.

I rather prefer an OS-team that concentrated on perfecting their OS on given HW and going for supporting easy-2-obtain, cheap and powerfull HW, even more if it includes a laptop...

[psxphill]

Fast hardware are required for Windows 7 and MacOS X, it isn't necessary for AmigaOS 4 to feal good to use.

You can run windows 7 on the cheapest & slowest new hardware. I need fast hardware anyway, I would have no use for a slow PPC system.
 
The problem with AOS4 is that it isn't retro & it isn't modern. AROS falls into the same trap, however AROS is free and the hardware is cheap.

[drHirudo]

@drHirudo

Fab's OWB is only OWB by name (and I'm quite sure you know that). It's a MUI-browser useing WebKit and as such stands on the same level for being it's own browser as Safari or Chrome.

Then he shall change the name to avoid confusion with the OWB that was ported to Amiga as well.

LimberWolf ? Seen it, and for everyday browsing I'd rather take Voyager,IBrowse or even Aweb (yuk). There is a reason why most OS4-users had 2 or more browsers handy, none of them was good enough to get you through the day.

You are using all these handy Firefox extensions on the other browsers. Can you share how?

MorphOS-PowerBook support was not ANNOUNCED in 2009, actually I'm quite sure it's not even announced today...... See that the difference with the MorphOS-team, they do show quite open what they are working on but the also make it 100% clear that they can't&won't promise specific features/release-dates while still early in the development-cycle.

Then the Mophosians shall not make public previews to unaware people and give them false hopes. AmigaOS 4 for classic Amiga machines was previewed and it is available.

You and me both know that all these MOS previews are mainly from distraction of the Amiga crowd from the AmigaOS 4 development. It was the case in the year 2010 - something for AmigaOS 4 announced, then some random thread - look screenshot of MOS on G5 Mac - that rules bro, it's fast, hurry up and buy G5 because they are cheap, compared to Peg/Sam/Micro.

OS4.1 on PuP exist for 2 reasons (which boil down to 1 if you think about it):
1) lots of the pro-Hyperion crowd have never made the investment in a OS4-supported nextgen

2) Hyperion can't make money of the X1000 yet (well assuming the prepay-scheme-money wasn't redirected) and the SAMs aren't selling in high enough numbers.

Wether it makes sense to waste resources on 10-15 year old HW needing 15-20 year old motherboards performing on a level that wasn't impressive even back than is another question.

It makes sense if there is someone to buy the product.

I rather prefer an OS-team that concentrated on perfecting their OS on given HW and going for supporting easy-2-obtain, cheap and powerfull HW, even more if it includes a laptop...

AmigaOS 4.
Your latest sentence is irrelevant, because as you said there is no MOS for laptops yet! Contradicting yourself, eh?

[Kronos]

>You are using all these handy Firefox extensions on the other browsers.
> Can you share how?

Why should I ? I'm 100% sure I can view/use more aspects of the web with OWB than you can do with LimberWolf. So maybe it runs some obscure plugins... so what ? I allways click "Deny" when a webpage tries to install on of those anyways.

>Then the Mophosians shall not make public previews to unaware people
>and give them false hopes.

Yeah they should go with useing stupid acronyms (MAP anyone) posting braindead puzzles on their website and not forget to name dates that have no chance of holding water (you don't have to wait till summer).

Way better PR-wise !!!!!

>You and me both know that all these MOS previews are mainly from
>distraction of the Amiga crowd from the AmigaOS 4 development.

You and me both know that you are running low on the pills against your paranoia ....

The whole idea that the MorphOS-team would care enough bout OS4 to time posting screenshots is so far out it could make the plot for the next CSI/NCIS/Law&Order spinoff.

>It makes sense if there is someone to buy the product.
Xactly what I said. Real question is how many would be there to buy the product (OS4 for PuP) if OS4 was available on cheap&powerfull HW.

Something we will never find out.




AmigaOS 4.
Your latest sentence is irrelevant, because as you said there is no MOS for laptops yet! Contradicting yourself, eh?[/QUOTE]

[itix]

If I want to use AmigaOS 4.1 library functions, I don't need to recompile my software for AmigaOS 4.0 if I want it to run on classic Amiga machines.

There are actually so few Amiga/PowerUp users left that I would not worry about it.

[drHirudo]

>You are using all these handy Firefox extensions on the other browsers.
> Can you share how?

> Why should I ? I'm 100% sure I can view/use more aspects of the web with OWB than you can do with LimberWolf. So maybe it runs some obscure plugins... so what ? I allways click "Deny" when a webpage tries to install on of those anyways.

Your limited Internet usage probably does not include any automation tools.

>Then the Mophosians shall not make public previews to unaware people
>and give them false hopes.

Yeah they should go with useing stupid acronyms (MAP anyone) posting braindead puzzles on their website and not forget to name dates that have no chance of holding water (you don't have to wait till summer).

Way better PR-wise !!!!!

Some people were enjoying the puzzle and one man had to eat his socks. Better than seeing broken alpha videos.

>You and me both know that all these MOS previews are mainly from
>distraction of the Amiga crowd from the AmigaOS 4 development.

You and me both know that you are running low on the pills against your paranoia ....

The whole idea that the MorphOS-team would care enough bout OS4 to time posting screenshots is so far out it could make the plot for the next CSI/NCIS/Law&Order spinoff.

They have nothing better to do than post stupid screenshots or videos. Months later there is nothing they can offer except for a limited filesystem.

>It makes sense if there is someone to buy the product.
Xactly what I said. Real question is how many would be there to buy the product (OS4 for PuP) if OS4 was available on cheap&powerfull HW.

Something we will never find out.

[sarcasm]We found that MorphOS on Mac hardware sold millions of copies and is used widely everywhere. I saw a man with a Mac in the subway two days ago. While I did not had the chance to look at his screen, I think he was running something resembling MorphOS. Since MorphOS sold millions of copies, there is a great chance that he was running MorphOS, no doubt about it. MorphOS is very
professional operating system, running on wide variety of Mac hardware.
[/sarcasm]
Are you happy now? The Mac/MOS simulation shall speak about the situation of the market.

AmigaOS 4.
Your latest sentence is irrelevant, because as you said there is no MOS for laptops yet! Contradicting yourself, eh?

On the other hand you don't need to wonder what OS I am running on my microAmigaOne.