Which OS Would Be The Best Amiga Way Forward...

[CSixx]

Do you run OS4 on your A1200 060/PPC with Mediator PCI busboard/Voodoo graphic card and SoundBlaster audio card?  And you also can run OS3.9 with this system config?  (awesome A1200 BTW!)

Actually that's all this machine has run so far. OS3.9 works great, and from what I've read, is even more supportive of the hardware than OS4.1 will be.

I've already purchased a Radeon card to replace the voodoo and I'll have to get a new sound card for OS4.

[whabang]

MorphOS seems to have moved quite far, and I wish them all the luck in the World, but AROS is the only real viable alternative for me.

[wawrzon]

Actually that's all this machine has run so far. OS3.9 works great, and from what I've read, is even more supportive of the hardware than OS4.1 will be.

I've already purchased a Radeon card to replace the voodoo and I'll have to get a new sound card for OS4.

if you replace voodoo with radeon you will have to resign on warp3d on os3.9/68k side. there is no hardware accelerated w3d for radeon on 68k nor will there obviously be. the solution will be to leave both cards working in the machine, which i wasnt able to achieve up till now. or wait for some form of aros 68k support for classic pci, which might or might not happen.

[wawrzon]

@aros supporters:
now, that aros unquestionably leads the way (at least on this site) how about to factually support the development where possible? im talking about testing and contributing, whatever you can think of. would be great to have it somewhere along the way to where mos currently is.

[lsmart]

MorphOS is just plain better.  It has been under development longer and chose better components to start with.  Some AmigaOS4.x users just can't stand to read those facts

They might have a different opinion. I simply don't care about MorphOS. I don't own the hardware to run it and neither the newer MUI nor Ambient look like something that would impress me much.

I guess in your terms I am already trolling for just stating that. I have found that classic, UAE, AROS and AmigaOS4 aren't as aggressive as the blue team. Just today somebody posted an Animation that was created to make fun about the red camp and it was neither funny nor informative. And here they are trying to demotivate AROS fans by claiming something can't be done which is actually technically feasible (a pattern I have seen more than once).

So, sorry folks, but you aren't playing fair.

[amigadave]

Franko it's true Piru does jump the gun really quickly when someone criticizes Morphos but i wouldn't call him obnoxious. Being a developer for Morphos he has a right to be proud of his work and that means he can get defensive if he wants to. For me the line between being obnoxious and proud are quite large. Both are similar but not the same

@Hotrod. I for the record sit neutral on the fence when it comes to ng Amigas. I can appreciate them both. The red camp being faithful to classic Amigas which is great for nostalgia and the blue camp trying to modernize Amigaos which is also fantastic. Each to their own i say

@Amigadave. Grow up. You "ignore" someone just because they don't agree with you? On forums when having a debate you can expect to receive a certain amount of banter. It would be really boring if everyone just agreed with you

Someone please point out to me in this thread where the mud slinging started and who started it.

I did not notice anything overtly offensive until HotRod threw in his offensive remarks about "Most MorphOS users", which I got defensive about, since I am one of those MorphOS users and I gave my truthful opinion about what I have observed here and elsewhere.  It has nothing to do with me wanting HotRod to agree with everything I say or write.  I don't expect the AmigaOS4.x users to agree with the choices that I have made, or my opinions about what is best, but performance numbers and feature count has favored MorphOS2.x above AmigaOS4.x and AROS forever.  Those are hard cold facts and since the most obnoxious of the AmigaOS4.x users don't like those facts being pointed out on any forums, they usually resort to any other means to try to degrade MorphOS and call it names like children, because they have no other way to make themselves feel good about the choice they have made to use AmigaOS4.x instead of MorphOS2.x.

HotRod made it to my "ignore list" because he was writing complete crap and seems to actually believe it, or is just a troll, not because I disagree with his opinions and choices.  I have lots of friends that use AmigaOS4.x and I have no problem with them and their choices.  Re-read HotRod's first message in this thread and honestly tell me you think it was warranted by any other message from any MorphOS user in this thread and please explain why.  I would love to read that kind of assessment, if it is really objective and truthful and not just more trolling by anyone.

I don't have anything personal against AmigaOS4.x and would buy and use it, if it weren't tied to such expensive hardware that is so underpowered.  I also don't like some of the questionable behavior of some of the partners/owners of Hyperion in the past, but could overlook that if they had a better product at a better price, on better hardware.

[CSixx]

if you replace voodoo with radeon you will have to resign on warp3d on os3.9/68k side.

Thanks for the warning, however this machine will be OS4 only. I don't want to complicate things trying to dual-boot, plus I have a couple other machines running OS3.9.

[rdolores]

I didn't think of it being just a popular vote and from most of the reply's it would seem folk have given their reasons for the way they voted...

I know it isn't accurate by a long shot but from these results you could draw the conclusion that it seems to be long time Amiga users that favour AROS and that those newer to the Amiga scene (if you can call users of less than 20 years newbies) more in favour of OS4.X or MorphOS...

I dunno why but I've always had the idea that older and long term users would have chosen MorphOS and newer and younger users would have chosen AROS or OS4.X...

I am a long-time Amiga user (since 1986).  I voted "Forever" in AmigaDave's poll.  And I voted "AROS" in Franko's poll.  So your conclusion works out for me at least.

I was away from the Amiga scene for a while, so I missed the "red vs. blue" wars.  When I came back in 2006, I went for Amithlon instead even though developement had already stopped, because I had spare x86 equipment to test it on.  When AROS finally became useable, I gravitated to that because it is open source.  Because of this feature, it can be ported to any system, not just x86, but also PPC, ARM, and even the old Motorola 68xxx systems.  It may not be as polished as OS4.x or MorphOS right now, but it has the best chance to survive in the long term.

[paolone]

@aros supporters:
now, that aros unquestionably leads the way (at least on this site) how about to factually support the development where possible? im talking about testing and contributing, whatever you can think of. would be great to have it somewhere along the way to where mos currently is.

+1.

AROS is a community-effort: the larger the community, the better will be AROS in a shorter time. We still need any kind of help and support, being it coding, funding, evangelizing or making artistry.

[CSixx]

I love the "but mommy, he started it!" posts...

[amigadave]

They might have a different opinion.

Who is they?  Hyperion?  AmigaOS4.x users?  The performance numbers don't lie.  On the same exact hardware (Pegasos2) MorphOS2.x outperforms AmigaOS4.x in almost every category.  MorphOS2.x runs more old Amiga 68k software and WarpUP/PowerUP PPC software natively (without using UAE) than AmigaOS4.x.  Usually I do not point out these differences on forums because of the negative reaction it brings out, as I have been a strong proponent of cooperation between MorphOS2.x users and AmigaOS4.x & AROS users and don't like writing anything that is going to fuel the flame wars, but HotRod's postings were so out of line it just got under my skin and set me off.

I simply don't care about MorphOS. I don't own the hardware to run it and neither the newer MUI nor Ambient look like something that would impress me much.

I guess in your terms I am already trolling for just stating that.

Show me a single post of mine where I have I have criticized anyone for preferring to use AmigaOS4.x or AROS instead of MorphOS, or called them a troll just because they prefer to use AmigaOS4.x or  AROS.  Search through my almost 3000 posts on this site and find me just one.  I have always respected people's choices and don't care what you choose to run as your favorite Amiga-Like OS, or what hardware you run it on, so long as you don't try to make false statements about it when comparing it to MorphOS2.x in an attempt to make MorphOS2.x look bad.  MorphOS2.x has it's own faults, like all Amiga systems, so if you want to criticize it, use facts, not lies, or false information and I will have no problem with the criticism.

I have found that classic, UAE, AROS and AmigaOS4 aren't as aggressive as the blue team. Just today somebody posted an Animation that was created to make fun about the red camp and it was neither funny nor informative. And here they are trying to demotivate AROS fans by claiming something can't be done which is actually technically feasible (a pattern I have seen more than once).

So, sorry folks, but you aren't playing fair.

I agree that there are a few MorphOS trolls that are aggressive at times, but disagree that they are more aggressive, or post more often than, or are more in number than the AmigaOS4.x trolls.  Both sides have "Bad Apples", as I have already admitted to before, but you and HotRod are here claiming that the MorphOS camp is the worst offender without offering any proof to that claim.  If you had accurate statistics that could be proved, I would believe your claim, but since that kind of proof is impossible to produce, your claims are just more fuel for the flames and are no different than my angry response to HotRod's first message in this thread.  Please provide a link to this "demotivating" animation that you have seen, so we can have some proof of your claims about the evil MorphOS users.

As for Piru's comments about what can and cannot be done in programming, with his track record, I will believe his assertions until they are proven incorrect, over the opinions of someone who does not write any code, or does not match his abilities as a programmer.  His comments can be looked on as constructive criticism, that could save someone a lot of wasted time, or demotivating.  Depends on your point of view.  I sincerely do not believe that he makes those kinds of comments because he is trying to "demotivate" any programmer from trying to solve any programming challenge.  He is a pretty smart guy and has a proven track record when it comes to writing good code.  If you think that is unfair, ....... well, you are entitled to your opinion of what is and is not fair, but I just don't see any "un-fairness".

[itix]

I guess in your terms I am already trolling for just stating that. I have found that classic, UAE, AROS and AmigaOS4 aren't as aggressive as the blue team

I have to disagree. I know many nice fellows who are using OS4 but I also know couple of individuals who are (well were, since I havent seen those people much anymore) just lame. At some times it was impossible to talk about MorphOS without getting attacked by some strange persons. MorphOS never had such problem with other user groups.

Interestingly OS4 used to have lot problems with anyone not buying into OS4. Since then everything has luckily matured and neither MorphOS and OS4 users really care much about it anymore. On the other hand negative comments are IMO always ok. If someone doesnt like something in MorphOS he should be allowed to say it. (Kolla gets very annoying here sometimes but he is consistent with what he says. I really respect that even when he is just PITA. )

Just today somebody posted an Animation that was created to make fun about the red camp and it was neither funny nor informative.

Where? :-)

And here they are trying to demotivate AROS fans by claiming something can't be done which is actually technically feasible (a pattern I have seen more than once).

I disagree again. AROS people are nice and honest to MorphOS and so are MorphOS users and developers to AROS. But if something can not be implemented why not argue about it?

(Well, like always, there are exceptions, not everyone like everyone and sometimes people do stupid things)

[number6]

I love the "but mommy, he started it!" posts...

I also enjoy the posts about products being delayed, which instead of being addressed directly, get turned immediately into a counter-attack about the other person's favorite product being delayed.

*Amiga...building bridges of co-operation*

Unfortunately, they are all building the bridge at the Cassandra crossing.

#6


#6

[commodorejohn]

I love the "but mommy, he started it!" posts...

Blargh, yes. Remember when this thread was actually about the merits of different operating systems?

[lsmart]

Where? :-)

I has been retweeted on twitter. I found it here. In fact it was what motivated me to write my previous post. Maybe I have been just a bit over-sensitive. I am sorry for all the nice MorphOS fans who might have felt wrongly accused by my post. And here for your enjoyment:

youtube-link

But if something can not be implemented why not argue about it?

Because Piru knows that it is feasible. It´s not easy and hobby coders won´t make it work, but its feasible. The point is that neither AmigaOS nor MorphOS can support Intel chips without a major headache and AROS on first sight should have the same difficulties. But since AROS doesn´t have to care about the PPC stuff and old Amigas are comparatively slow and small they can get away with some things that wouldn´t work out for the other guys. If AROS can run on 68k, 68k can run on AROS.

[lsmart]

The performance numbers don't lie.

Maybe they don´t, but some MorphOS fans claimed e.g. that you can´t watch DVDs on a SAM, beacause of the performance. Which works fine here out of the box. I get a decent framerate on my SAM. It was denied that you can edit video on OS4 with Blender. Which I did, although I must confess that it was terribly slow and you´d better get an X1000 for that (or even better - use MacOS Xs iMovie).

Even if MorphOS outshines on some measurements it doesn´t mean the alternatives don´t have their merits and you have to talk them down in order to look better.