Is Natami Vapourware?

[SamuraiCrow]

@commodorejohn

+1

[J-Golden]

@commodorejohn

+1

+2

It IS a hobby machine after all, so there isn't a massive team with a marketing section and all that.  Just a small collection of dedicated people (and one cool lil' girl) who are giving it a try and seeing if it can fill the void.  I see that as a good thing since that is how the original Amiga started.  It was adding all that other stuff (Marketing, Management) that killed it...

[takemehomegrandma]

Its vapour until it arrives.

+1

There is nothing tangible you can buy as of yet. There has been many examples of very interesting projects that got this far (or even further) that had better financial backing but yet never made it. From the top of my mind (but I recall *a very long list* here at amiga.org some year ago):

http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/pios/pios1mb.jpg

http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/boxer3.jpg

http://tdolphin.org/amikrak/amizaduszki2k6/DSC01915.JPG
http://tdolphin.org/amikrak/amizaduszki2k6/DSC01922.JPG

The Natami still has some way to go, and from history we have learned that this is where many projects fail (and not where the Natami has been this far). Not that I think they will fail, but the "product" simply isn't a *product* yet, so it's still vapor!

[fishy_fiz]

By some definitions (very long time coming, still not available) I think it fits into the category of vapourware by now, but even though Ive thus far been a bit iffy of Natami I still do expect something to see the light of day, so I personally dont feel comfortable labelling it as vapor.

As for fpgaarcade, Im not nearly as informed as some, but I was under the impression it's somewhat more "ambitious" (for lack of a better word) than minimig. Correct me if Im mistaken, but doesnt it support aga, and faster cpus than minimig ? Both also have a few chipram and bandwidth impovements vs. "real" chipset implementations. Unless Im mistaken, fpgaarcade would indeed cut into some of natami's "market" (ie. those that just want a new replacement aga/68k machine with a few enhancements). Granted Natami also brings a few additional extras to the table, but unless my understanding of fpgaarcade is inaccurate whoever gets something out first, I believe, will get a few extra sales.
For now theyre little more than an interesting curiousity to me (Im happy with my a1200), but I do look forward to seeing them "in the flesh" one day

[commodorejohn]

As for fpgaarcade, Im not nearly as informed as some, but I was under the impression it's somewhat more "ambitious" (for lack of a better word) than minimig.

Could be; there doesn't seem to be much at all on the site about it, so maybe it's one of those projects (like Natami) where most of the information is on forum or blog posts and I just haven't encountered it.

In any case, there might be more overlap than I thought, but I still think both projects have clearly distinct appeal and target markets (such as those would be, with no actual marketing.) FPGA Arcade is obviously aimed towards retro gamers, seeing as the Amiga functionality is only one of a variety of platforms supported, while Natami is aimed squarely at Amiga fans and aims to support one system extremely well. Not saying that there's no overlap, but I'm thinking there's certainly room for both in the world.

[Kesa]

By some definitions (very long time coming, still not available) I think it fits into the category of vapourware by now, but even though Ive thus far been a bit iffy of Natami I still do expect something to see the light of day, so I personally dont feel comfortable labelling it as vapor.

I agree. Vaporware is such a harsh word. As soon as something is labelled "vaporware" it automatically becomes something bad which is utter crap. I'm not prepared to give such an absolute judgement on the NatAmi at this time and all of the negative comments so far in this thread are a complete exaggeration.

C'mon guys let's not judge them as failures until they actually fail. At least give them a chance to do some good.

[kedawa]

There are working physical prototypes.  I would say that means that it isn't vaporware.

[trekiej]

Maybe it is a sweet aroma.

[J-Golden]

"Vaporware" has such a negative connotation in this community that I wouldn't want to label anything with that title unless they've earned it.

To me, Vaporware is something that is promised over and over again but either never surfaces or the final product doesn't deliver anything near what was promised.

So far, NatAmi has not crossed that line AFAIK.

[trekiej]

At least they have more than one piece of working hardware.
It is not vaporware, it is just not available to everyone.

[psxphill]

Its vapour until it arrives. However they have been excellent with tons of pictures of progress on their website, and they haven't taken anyones money. So I feel pretty hopefull

It's only vaporware once you think it may not come out.
 
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/vapourware

[takemehomegrandma]

There are working physical prototypes.  I would say that means that it isn't vaporware.

If they had fully working boards, they would release it, don't you think? But they haven't got everything together yet, it's not ready, it's not here. Vapor is something you can't grab. I couldn't get a fully working Natami today even if I tried. It's not even finished enough to be released, and only time will tell if it will or won't make it all the way. Mind you, I actually think most of these projects reached a stage of working physical prototypes, but they were still shelved before a release. Don't get me wrong, I like the Natami and I hope it makes it. But I'm not holding my breath. I fully consider it vapor until they *really* have something for sale. Only time will tell if it ever will.

[vidarh]

As for fpgaarcade, Im not nearly as informed as some, but I was under the impression it's somewhat more "ambitious" (for lack of a better word) than minimig. Correct me if Im mistaken, but doesnt it support aga, and faster cpus than minimig

You're right, it supports AGA. As it stands, the FPGA Arcade comes with 32MB RAM, I believe, and the CPU performs at the level of a 50MHz 68030, though Yaqube has said he hopes to match a 68040 @ 25MHz in terms of performance. There's also a 68060 card with ethernet (there's a 68060 card for Natami too, but it's mostly for development use and possibly if you need an MMU). The source for the cores is also due to be released, so the community can improve it further.

Natami likely has faster memory, and certainly more, USB, PCI, ethernet and in general lots more expandability out of the box. It of course also has "Super AGA". It also has a bigger/faster (and more expensive) FPGA.

There's a big gap between them, but FPGA Arcade certainly is a massive step up from Minimig. Consider FPGA Arcade a souped up A1200 and Natami a fully decked out A4000 perhaps for a rough idea of where they stand relative to each other. The Natami should in theory at least significantly beat an A4000 with the fastest 68060 accelerators around when using the softcore CPU if it performs as they hope.

[Kesa]

If they had fully working boards, they would release it, don't you think? But they haven't got everything together yet, it's not ready, it's not here. Vapor is something you can't grab. I couldn't get a fully working Natami today even if I tried. It's not even finished enough to be released, and only time will tell if it will or won't make it all the way. Mind you, I actually think most of these projects reached a stage of working physical prototypes, but they were still shelved before a release. Don't get me wrong, I like the Natami and I hope it makes it. But I'm not holding my breath. I fully consider it vapor until they *really* have something for sale. Only time will tell if it ever will.

WOAH WOAH hang on a minute. Maybe Morphos has the luxury of using established hardware like Apple Macs but remember NatAmi are not just making software for established hardware but they are actually making the hardware itself. It's a bit different so maybe you should stop comparing NatAmi to Morphos and start giving encouragement.

Jesus i'm starting to sound like a NatAmi zealot   :eek:

[jakov]

IMHO, Natami has come further than those:

http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/pios/transam.html  PIOS was a PC style design with PPC CPU. No legacy hardware.


http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/boxerdelay.html - Boxer 3 was cancelled due to lack of funds. This will not happen to Natami. We have no funds to cancel! :-D



http://tdolphin.org/amikrak/amizaduszki2k6/DSC01915.JPG


The Natami is more ambitious in scope than any of these mentioned. We will provide our own CPU. We do not totally depend on any single hardware vendor.

[takemehomegrandma]

WOAH WOAH hang on a minute. Maybe Morphos has the luxury of using established hardware like Apple Macs but remember NatAmi are not just making software for established hardware but they are actually making the hardware itself. It's a bit different so maybe you should stop comparing NatAmi to Morphos and start giving encouragement.

Jesus i'm starting to sound like a NatAmi zealot   :eek:

What has MorphOS got to do with anything?

Look, all I'm saying is that the Natami is a *very* ambitious project (with a custom CPU and everything), and that I (and probably many others) have been "let down" by so many other promising developments that has been *half* as "ambitious" as this one is. I'm not saying that Natami will fail, I don't want it to fail, but most projects *do* in fact fail, some at a point even further down the road than Natami is now. I do like to read the progress reports, it sounds promising and all, but so did so many other projects as well. So I'll consider it being real and tangible only when it's out for sale. Until that happens I'll not invest any "emotional capital" into this one.

Anyway, I have made my point regarding this and won't post further. I just wanted to respond to your strange and out of the air "compare Natami with MorphOS" statements. I never did that. Why would I?