Amiga workbench

[Darrin]

I was just thinking to myself how silly it is that people who create patched Workbench installs or even Emergency Install disks cannot actually include the Workbench files and you have to run a program to copy files from your own Workbench disks.

When I think back to early days of the Amiga, most software on floppies actually contained Workbench (or at least a cut-down version of it) and when you inserted the disk you booted to Workbench and then ran the program by double clicking on it.  Software like Pen Pal and GFA Basic had pretty much everything you needed (Prefs, fonts, etc) included on the disks.

So, were these software companies paying Commodore to include Workbench on their floppies or didn't Commodore care and just expected people to use Workbench as necessary to get their software onto the market to increase the user-base?

If this was the case, when did it start becoming "naughty" to include Workbench files on your own disks?

[runequester]

I could be talking out of my rear but aren't some of those basic functions contained in the ROM's too ?

[commodorejohn]

I could be talking out of my rear but aren't some of those basic functions contained in the ROM's too ?

Most of the OS libraries are included in the ROMs - I think the software on the disk is just miscellaneous tools, the file manager, and the CLI.

[DaBest]

One has to wonder at the question. Maybe it's a little bit of both. To have these disks self bootable they had to have some workbench files I would assume.

[Franko]

Nah... on OS1.3 and 2.x as far as I remember basic functions like Dir, Copy etc... were on the floppy and not in the ROMS...

Darrins right, tons of commercial software came with such files (ie:part of WorkBench including libraries) on them and no-one ever complained back then even when Commodore was still alive. I think these days it's just down to armchair copyright lawyer wannabes trying to find something to moan about...

Look's like this thread could be another long drawn out affair on the subject of copyright so methinks I'll just bow out now and say... I don't care anymore...

[Darrin]

Nah... on OS1.3 and 2.x as far as I remember basic functions like Dir, Copy etc... were on the floppy and not in the ROMS...

Darrins right, tons of commercial software came with such files (ie:part of WorkBench including libraries) on them and no-one ever complained back then even when Commodore was still alive. I think these days it's just down to armchair copyright lawyer wannabes trying to find something to moan about...

Look's like this thread could be another long drawn out affair on the subject of copyright so methinks I'll just bow out now and say... I don't care anymore...

That's my thoughts exactly.  I owned several disks that booted into what appeared to be WB1.3, but how did the distributer know that you owned your own copy of WB1.3 and that your Amiga didn't come with WB1.2?  If your machine did come with WB1.2 then should you be able to run the software?!  :eek:

Now, I remember KS2.x ROMS being sold with WB2.x (I upgraded my A2000 that way), but if someone like Bloodwych makes a Classic Workbench 3.x distro then it is bloody obvious to everybody that the only people who are going to download and install it already have KS3.x ROMS and almost guaranteed to have the Workbench 3.x disks.

I understand that OS3.5 and OS3.9 are products made by a another company and are still being sold (new old stock?), but why the hell can't the files on WB3.0 or WB3.1 just be handed out for free?

Let's face it, we should be able to release our own Workbench 3.2 set of disks that allows people to install a modern Workbench onto a hard drive as simply as installing WB3.1.

[mongo]

   Workbench and Includes Licenses

Developers who wish to distribute files/commands from Workbench
or C/Asm Include files on their commercial product MUST have
a license to do so.  Distribution of the items in PD or freely
redistributable form is not allowed.  Licenses may be requested
through your local Amiga support organization, or through
CATS - Licenses, 1200 Wilson Drive, West Chester, PA., 19380.
Licenses are available for Workbench 1.3, Workbench 2.0, Includes
1.3, and Includes 2.0.  Be sure to specify which license(s) you
require and include your full PAPER MAIL address including country.
Licensing generally costs $100/year for workbench, $25/year for
Includes/Libs.

http://ftp.back2roots.org/padua/text/CATS-Materials

[Iggy]

That's my thoughts exactly.  I owned several disks that booted into what appeared to be WB1.3, but how did the distributer know that you owned your own copy of WB1.3 and that your Amiga didn't come with WB1.2?  If your machine did come with WB1.2 then should you be able to run the software?!  :eek:

Now, I remember KS2.x ROMS being sold with WB2.x (I upgraded my A2000 that way), but if someone like Bloodwych makes a Classic Workbench 3.x distro then it is bloody obvious to everybody that the only people who are going to download and install it already have KS3.x ROMS and almost guaranteed to have the Workbench 3.x disks.

I understand that OS3.5 and OS3.9 are products made by a another company and are still being sold (new old stock?), but why the hell can't the files on WB3.0 or WB3.1 just be handed out for free?

Let's face it, we should be able to release our own Workbench 3.2 set of disks that allows people to install a modern Workbench onto a hard drive as simply as installing WB3.1.

Come on Darrin, you already know the reason. AInc claims to be to owner of OS3.1 and both AInc and Hyperion claim that only Hyperion is licensed to create derivatives of it (so no 3.2).

[Darrin]

http://ftp.back2roots.org/padua/text/CATS-Materials

Interesting.  So if we all chip in and raise $100 we can distribute as many OS3.2 disks as we like as long as we include some tiny program on it and claim to be distrubuting the program, rather than Workbench?

Seems like a winner!  

[Darrin]

Come on Darrin, you already know the reason. AInc claims to be to owner of OS3.1 and both AInc and Hyperion claim that only Hyperion is licensed to create derivatives of it (so no 3.2).

I thought Hyperion's license was for Next Gen OS4.x and not revamped Classic Workbench running on 680x0 machines.

[lsmart]

So, were these software companies paying Commodore to include Workbench on their floppies or didn't Commodore care and just expected people to use Workbench as necessary to get their software onto the market to increase the user-base?

I don´t know about big commercial products, but with smaller Public Domain disks Commodore deliberately didn´t object to the inclusion of Workbench files. They wern´t that silly. Besides everyone already owned Workbench, since it came with the computer that software was running on.

If this was the case, when did it start becoming "naughty" to include Workbench files on your own disks?

It is a different world today. AOS was never designed to run on a non Commodore licensed emulator. And there is a difference  you start your own program from WB versus having WB on the disk and a few nameless PD tools.

[psxphill]

Interesting. So if we all chip in and raise $100 we can distribute as many OS3.2 disks as we like as long as we include some tiny program on it and claim to be distrubuting the program, rather than Workbench?
 
Seems like a winner!

The $100 offer obviously isn't available anymore. However everyone would need to have kickstart 3.1 anyway. Users could pirate kickstart, but then they may as well pirate the workbench as well.

[Kesa]

The $100 offer obviously isn't available anymore. However everyone would need to have kickstart 3.1 anyway. Users could pirate kickstart, but then they may as well pirate the workbench as well.

Why not pirate workbench? I'm normally against any kind of piracy unless it is warranted. No one actually owns workbench and as far as i'm concerned it is open (free?) source software. If they wanted to clamp down on it i doubt they could actually do anything about it anyway

So go ahead and help yourself!

[commodorejohn]

Yeah, basically. The hell with the Amiga legal shenanigans, I'll just pirate.

[vidarh]

When I think back to early days of the Amiga, most software on floppies actually contained Workbench (or at least a cut-down version of it)

Workbench was/is in kickstart. The only thing that's absolutely needed to start Workbench from a floppy is C:loadwb + a very basic startup sequence to call it.