Is Amiga Inc's claim to AOS valid?

[dammy]

In legal terms no there is no law forbidding you to point out to someone where something is, morally... well that depends on the individuals morals...

There might be a law actually, depending on a few things: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accessory_%28legal_term%29

[dammy]

That isn't strictly true.

If the copyrights were not transferred from Commodore to a third party by the liquidators there is the very real possibility that they are currently unassigned, as Commodore as a legal entity no longer exists.

But C= does exist with it's original IP, minus what was sold to EScom/Acer/AI.  I think you would have a very tough time telling the Bahama court system that no one owns AOS and it's up for grabs.

[Iggy]

But C= does exist with it's original IP, minus what was sold to EScom/Acer/AI.  I think you would have a very tough time telling the Bahama court system that no one owns AOS and it's up for grabs.

Dammy, how does C= exist after liquidation?
And would a Bahamian court decision really matter to other countries?

[TiredOLife]

Yeah, ask the former Gateway employee if the property was transferred properly to his company. That'll work. Like he doesn't have a vested interest in it. :roflmao:

Where in that post did I say that?
I would have thought it was obvious what I was suggesting but let me spell it out.
Ask for proof that this happened, not just ask if it did.

Not that I think you will get any but the reponse might be interesting.

[runequester]

Piracy is what those damn Somali pirates have been doing at the sea.

I dont wan't to get into the whole piracy debate, but one of the funniest lines I read on the topic was "We can't be pirates, we don't have any boats!"

[Gulliver]

I dont wan't to get into the whole piracy debate, but one of the funniest lines I read on the topic was "We can't be pirates, we don't have any boats!"

Great quote indeed

[Iggy]

Where in that post did I say that?
I would have thought it was obvious what I was suggesting but let me spell it out.
Ask for proof that this happened, not just ask if it did.

Not that I think you will get any but the reponse might be interesting.

Yeah, still not likely to work, but a response would be interesting.
As Escom did release 3.1 (although they may never have truly own the AOS IP), basing AInc's claim on 3.1 is slightly more realistic.

[LordSpunky]

I just wish the company that owns AOS IP, whether that is Commodore Holdings, Amiga Inc, Escom, Acer, Franko, or myself to release the ROM's and Workbench's as a back catalog. I could do with a new copy of 1.3.3! And 3.1 A4000T.......and yeah I can get hooky copies, yeah I can download what I want when I want, with no money changing hands, yes that piracy, and yes I don't give a fuck what you think about that.
But most of the time I do like to pay, and sometimes I do like to hold the original copy. £5 for a new copy of Workbench I would pay.......

[dammy]

Dammy, how does C= exist after liquidation?

Commodore Holdings.

And would a Bahamian court decision really matter to other countries?

That is where Commodore was incorporated at actually, most likely reasons for tax or international shareholders status.  Now IIRC, the US commodore's assets were sold off in a US court in NY.  So it would be either a judge in Bahama or US Court in NY that would have to decide.  

OTOH, it would be interesting if Hyperion was stripped of it's AmigaOS license.

[Franko]

I'd be all for whomever owns the right to the Workbench disk sets to do the any of the following...

A) Sell them online in ADF format at a reasonable price for folk to downdload easily

B) As above but also the option to buy them on floppy (as floppy disks don't last forever)

C) Issue rights/licencences to folk who would be willing to do the above from their own site but only be allowed to charge a reasonable price to cover production costs/P&P

D) Or simply place them in the Public Domain and end all this crap once and for all

And don't chime in with "but you can get them already on Amiga Forever" that's fine if you want to buy Amiga Forever but what about folk who simply want to get hold of the ROM Image Files or WorkBench Disk Sets by themselves...

I know it wouldn't be a money spinner (not by a long shot) for whomever owns them but it would be more of a Public Service to the Amiga Community  who still support these great machines despite the years of crap we've had to put up with by these companies who couldn't give a shit about us anymore cos we're no longer a big money maker for them...

[LordSpunky]

And don't chime in with "but you can get them already on Amiga Forever" that's fine if you want to buy Amiga Forever but what about folk who simply want to get hold of the ROM Image Files or WorkBench Disk Sets by themselves...

I know it wouldn't be a money spinner (not by a long shot) for whomever owns them but it would be more of a Public Service to the Amiga Community  who still support these great machines despite the years of crap we've had to put up with by these companies who couldn't give a shit about us anymore cos we're no longer a big money maker for them...

Agreed Franko, basically my thoughts. My WB 3.1 discs are corrupt, so when I do an Install it plays up, I think last time it took me 10 tries to install the fonts disc and in the end I used one of my many 3.0 fonts discs.

I would like to get a 'fresh' new copy.....yeah I had search on ebay, yes I can get an ADF and play about with it, but it would be nice to go to Amiga Inc and click 'Send me a frickin' new copy of Workbench, so I can keep the dream alive!' button.......

.......argh.......did any of that make sense? I think my boards have gone a bit bandy.....

[Digiman]

Not sure it is a false analogy.

The link is showing someone how and where to steal something. I'm thinking quite generically here as I'm personally affected by Copyright theft so my view might be a bit different to most people here.

Don't get me wrong, I think big content providers abuse the copyright laws for their own good... But I want to make it clear that stealing is still stealing regardless of the item being stolen.

I understand where you are coming from and in your case it is theft/loss of income but it can't be considered stealing if nothing has been sold actively for decades. If nobody wants to sell me a brand new Kickstart disk then there is ZERO loss of income and therefore NO THEFT has occurred.

The entire planet is fed up with scum lawyers defending companies hoarding IP with ZERO products for sale. It's the same crap with new Atari I guess too. It all started in the 90s with Nintendo shutting down the Commodore Internet Archive over a fucking tape image for Donkey Kong on C64. Pure SCUM.

Courts should ban copyright claims unless the item is actively sold. END OF ARGUMENT.

(and again do not mention that over priced cock Amiga forever @ me anyone, two scumbags do not make good)

[Claw22000]

I think this whole discussion is pointless considering that every OS EVER have been pirated by many many people.  If you get a computer and a new OS comes out that you need to run programs and you can't afford to but it and the program what do you do.  Not to mentino I would bed theres a ton of us that found one of our legit disks went bad and we downloaded a copy.  While that isn't illeage you were glad to find it.  There is no money in the OS anymore.  Now the kickstarts theres some money in that as people that really care will keep buying them as they return to there roots.

[cha05e90]

IIf you get a computer and a new OS comes out that you need to run programs and you can't afford to but it and the program what do you do.

As usual: If I can't afford the book, I'll have to read for a certain task, I'll steal it or make a copy at the local copy shop. When I'm in the urge to get somewhere and can't afford a ticket, I'll use the tram/train anyway without paying. Or steal a car. No big deal.

[Fraggle1]

Joining this debate late, but here goes .....
First let me say I agree with Franko, who's point (I think) is "who REALLY owns the copyrights/IPs, etc. & not who THINKS they own them." Like he says, we'll never know until it's tested properly.
Personally, I rather fancy the idea of this being tested in the Scottish courts, who are known for their commonsense & "robust" decisions. ;-)

In my view, that those who claim to hold the various copyrights/IPs are simply squatting on them in the hope that they will be worth a lot of money someday. I just hope they're not holding their breath. ;-)
As Digiman says, they have no product for sale, which rather undermines the large values that they put on the copyrights & IPs, as does the fact that no one seems able to run a profitable business off the back off them.

Defending the rights to various kickstarts & defunct OS versions seems to me like claiming copyright over the Ox drawn plough - It might still have it's uses, but you're never going to make money from selling them.

[lsmart]

Defending the rights to various kickstarts & defunct OS versions seems to me like claiming copyright over the Ox drawn plough - It might still have it's uses, but you're never going to make money from selling them.

Defunct? Are you out of your mind? What do you think is the main reason Amiga Forever is so popular? The demos or the ridiculous games? No, it is the best source to legally obtain all the Kickstarts & Workbench files.
Without them Amiga Forever wouldn´t be worth talking about.