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Author Topic: Is Amiga Inc's claim to AOS valid?  (Read 26270 times)

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Offline IggyTopic starter

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Re: Is Amiga Inc's claim to AOS valid?
« Reply #59 on: April 28, 2011, 12:57:19 AM »
Quote from: lsmart;633995
Source code is the ultimate spec. If you have the source, you can write a better replacement than anybody else. It doesn´t have to be in your results, but having access to the sources makes a big difference!

I can see your point. But with access to the 3.1 source Hyperion's product isn't superior to MorphOS. The additional time spent improving MorphOS seems to have given it an edge.
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Offline gertsy

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Re: Is Amiga Inc's claim to AOS valid?
« Reply #60 on: April 28, 2011, 01:08:13 PM »
The way I see it Amiga Inc's claim to the Amiga OS is Valid.  
But that doesn't mean they own it or a copyright to it.  
OS and KS was all owned by "Commodore Amiga Inc."  According the original copyright. Full rights being onsold to Escom but not for the OS. Something was then sold to Gateway. Which retrospectively included some bodged non binding copyrights for the OS.  @ 1$ each.  Bit of a legal blunder there : See attachment.
What did Gateway own and have a right grant license to?  unknown.
Was the license granted to Amiga Inc by Gateway exclusive?  Who knows.
Did the current Amiga Inc complete the purchase of the license granted?  Evidence would suggest not.
These questions would seem to be impossible to answer legally now.

So I rang up Gateway (Acer) and asked them what they thought about me (on franko's behalf) having a right to on sell Amiga OS and kickstart, and they said "what's a meega?"

I can't ring up Amiga Inc as they are no longer incorporated and they don't have a phone number.

So I reckon it's either Nicholas or Franko who own it now.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2011, 01:21:11 PM by gertsy »
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Offline bloodline

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Re: Is Amiga Inc's claim to AOS valid?
« Reply #61 on: April 28, 2011, 01:43:16 PM »
Quote from: Iggy;634022
I can see your point. But with access to the 3.1 source Hyperion's product isn't superior to MorphOS. The additional time spent improving MorphOS seems to have given it an edge.
Personally I would blame some design descisions made by the Friedan's rather than any inherent inferiority/superiority of product.
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Offline itix

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Re: Is Amiga Inc's claim to AOS valid?
« Reply #62 on: April 28, 2011, 01:59:50 PM »
Quote from: lsmart;633995
Source code is the ultimate spec. If you have the source, you can write a better replacement than anybody else. It doesn´t have to be in your results, but having access to the sources makes a big difference!


Got any examples? :-)
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Offline dammy

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Re: Is Amiga Inc's claim to AOS valid?
« Reply #63 on: April 28, 2011, 02:00:47 PM »
Quote from: gertsy;634098
The way I see it Amiga Inc's claim to the Amiga OS is Valid.  
But that doesn't mean they own it or a copyright to it.  
OS and KS was all owned by "Commodore Amiga Inc."  According the original copyright. Full rights being onsold to Escom but not for the OS. Something was then sold to Gateway. Which retrospectively included some bodged non binding copyrights for the OS.  @ 1$ each.  Bit of a legal blunder there : See attachment.


Then it's still Commodore (Commodore Holding) IP then.  Someone has to own it, the last in the known chain would be the owner.

Quote
What did Gateway own and have a right grant license to?  unknown.
Was the license granted to Amiga Inc by Gateway exclusive?  Who knows.


GW (now Acer) sold everything, except the hardware patents which they issued a license out to, to Amiga Inc.

Quote
Did the current Amiga Inc complete the purchase of the license granted?  Evidence would suggest not.
These questions would seem to be impossible to answer legally now.

So I rang up Gateway (Acer) and asked them what they thought about me (on franko's behalf) having a right to on sell Amiga OS and kickstart, and they said "what's a meega?"


They sold it to AI over 10 years ago, of course they didn't have a clue on what you were talking about.

Quote
I can't ring up Amiga Inc as they are no longer incorporated and they don't have a phone number.

So I reckon it's either Nicholas or Franko who own it now.


Ah, that's not how it works.  Now IIRC, Hyperion and AI's last agreement, Hyperion has to enforce Amiga Inc's IP rights.  So contact Ben or Timothy and ask them if their Amiga OS license from Amiga Inc is valid or not.
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Offline Franko

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Re: Is Amiga Inc's claim to AOS valid?
« Reply #64 on: April 28, 2011, 02:03:30 PM »
Quote from: gertsy;634098
So I rang up Gateway (Acer) and asked them what they thought about me (on franko's behalf) having a right to on sell Amiga OS and kickstart, and they said "what's a meega?"

I can't ring up Amiga Inc as they are no longer incorporated and they don't have a phone number.

So I reckon it's either Nicholas or Franko who own it now.


Not sure if you're having a laugh here but did you really call Gateway/Acer... :confused:

I'd be more than happy to openly make free (again) Kickstart ROM images and Workbench Disk Sets for everyone to download on my sites instead of having them hidden away (where they are just now) for only those in know to find... :)

As I've said before when they were available for the world to see I never got one complaint form anyone claiming to own them and asking me to stop it or face legal action... :)

The only complaints I got were from the moaning minny copyright mafia on here who don't own any of it demanding the link to my site be removed and I should be banned... :(

I'd be very interested in calling Gateway myself if that's the reply you got and then being able to decide if I should plaster my homepage with nothing but Free downloads of KickStart & Workbench Disk Sets so that everyone can have access to them... :)

As I keep saying it's way past time all this was settled one way or the other and to me the only way that's going to happen is to force whomever can genuinely prove ownership to come forward and demand/threaten that any sites doing so will face legal action which I am more then willing to challenge in a court of law... :)
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Offline dammy

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Re: Is Amiga Inc's claim to AOS valid?
« Reply #65 on: April 28, 2011, 02:09:58 PM »
Quote from: Franko;634112
Not sure if you're having a laugh here but did you really call Gateway/Acer... :confused:

I'd be more than happy to openly make free (again) Kickstart ROM images and Workbench Disk Sets for everyone to download on my sites instead of having them hidden away (where they are just now) for only those in know to find... :)

As I've said before when they were available for the world to see I never got one complaint form anyone claiming to own them and asking me to stop it or face legal action... :)

The only complaints I got were from the moaning minny copyright mafia on here who don't own any of it demanding the link to my site be removed and I should be banned... :(

I'd be very interested in calling Gateway myself if that's the reply you got and then being able to decide if I should plaster my homepage with nothing but Free downloads of KickStart & Workbench Disk Sets so that everyone can have access to them... :)

As I keep saying it's way past time all this was settled one way or the other and to me the only way that's going to happen is to force whomever can genuinely prove ownership to come forward and demand/threaten that any sites doing so will face legal action which I am more then willing to challenge in a court of law... :)


It would be an interesting test to see if Hyperion will live up to their AI agreement or not.
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Offline Franko

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Re: Is Amiga Inc's claim to AOS valid?
« Reply #66 on: April 28, 2011, 02:18:36 PM »
Quote from: dammy;634115
It would be an interesting test to see if Hyperion will live up to their AI agreement or not.


I reckon it's worth a go if it will help solve all this confusion once and for all. As it's obvious no one is ever going to tell the truth in this matter until a legal challenge is made in a court... :)

At least then one way or the other the truth behind who can genuinely lay claim to what would finally be know and perhaps all of us Amiga fans can finally move forward... ;)
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Offline psxphill

Re: Is Amiga Inc's claim to AOS valid?
« Reply #67 on: April 28, 2011, 02:22:02 PM »
Quote from: Franko;634112
The only complaints I got were from the moaning minny copyright mafia on here who don't own any of it demanding the link to my site be removed and I should be banned... :(

It's never a good idea to associate with piracy in such a public place. By saying there can be no links from amiga.org to copyright works that are being distributed without permission then it saves any hassle.
 
You're right, it's easy to get kickstart and workbench disk images on the internet. Which makes it look like you only want to cause controversy, when really what you're doing is irrelevant.
 
Why you'd even be bothered is beyond me.
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Offline Franko

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Re: Is Amiga Inc's claim to AOS valid?
« Reply #68 on: April 28, 2011, 02:32:15 PM »
Quote from: psxphill;634118
It's never a good idea to associate with piracy in such a public place. By saying there can be no links from amiga.org to copyright works that are being distributed without permission then it saves any hassle.
 
You're right, it's easy to get kickstart and workbench disk images on the internet. Which makes it look like you only want to cause controversy, when really what you're doing is irrelevant.
 
Why you'd even be bothered is beyond me.


That's the whole point though, is it piracy if whomever allegedly owns the stuff couldn't care less about these things being free to download on numerous sites on the web... ;)

You've got it all wrong and don't understand my point behind all of this, it's not about causing controversy it about ending it and putting an end to all these years of rumour and speculation about who has the rights to what that has caused nothing but damage in the Amiga community... :(

Why I bother... simple having only ever used Commodore computers all my life then they hold a special meaning to me and I'm sick and tired of the BS that has dragged both the Commodore & Amiga names down all these years and has made us the laughing stock of the computer world... :madashell:

You may not care and that's fine but I do and when I care about something I fight all the way until I win or lose... :)
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Offline TiredOLife

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Re: Is Amiga Inc's claim to AOS valid?
« Reply #69 on: April 28, 2011, 04:29:27 PM »
Someone could always try this -
http://www.amiga.com/about/contact/
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Offline mongo

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Re: Is Amiga Inc's claim to AOS valid?
« Reply #70 on: April 28, 2011, 04:36:19 PM »
Quote from: Franko;634124
That's the whole point though, is it piracy if whomever allegedly owns the stuff couldn't care less about these things being free to download on numerous sites on the web...


Oh, if that's the whole point then let me clear it up for you.

Yes, it is piracy.
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Offline IggyTopic starter

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Re: Is Amiga Inc's claim to AOS valid?
« Reply #71 on: April 28, 2011, 05:05:47 PM »
Quote from: TiredOLife;634134
Someone could always try this -
http://www.amiga.com/about/contact/

Yeah, ask the former Gateway employee if the property was transferred properly to his company. That'll work. Like he doesn't have a vested interest in it. :roflmao:
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"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Franko

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Re: Is Amiga Inc's claim to AOS valid?
« Reply #72 on: April 28, 2011, 05:20:39 PM »
Quote from: mongo;634135
Oh, if that's the whole point then let me clear it up for you.

Yes, it is piracy.


That's your opinion and your entitled to it but I beg to differ on the matter... :)

So I'm afraid your "opinion" doesn't clear it up for me... ;)
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Offline dammy

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Re: Is Amiga Inc's claim to AOS valid?
« Reply #73 on: April 28, 2011, 05:54:32 PM »
Quote from: Franko;634140
That's your opinion and your entitled to it but I beg to differ on the matter... :)

So I'm afraid your "opinion" doesn't clear it up for me... ;)


Why don't you ask Ben of Hyperion then?
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Dammy

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Offline Franko

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Re: Is Amiga Inc's claim to AOS valid?
« Reply #74 from previous page: April 28, 2011, 06:07:03 PM »
Quote from: dammy;634145
Why don't you ask Ben of Hyperion then?


Give me this "Bens" contact details and I'll gladly ask him, though I doubt from what I have read by others that he owns nothing more than licences to use certain trademarks and sell software under licence... :)

I really want to know who actually owns all the IP/TradeMarks/Copyright and has the power to issue licenses and rights to the likes of A.Inc & Hyperion and "They who shall remain nameless". That to me would be the guilty party behind all these years of BS and dragging the Amiga & Commodore names through the dirt... ;)
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