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Offline takemehomegrandmaTopic starter

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Re: Amount of MorphOS copies sold
« Reply #209 from previous page: March 14, 2012, 12:56:13 PM »
Quote from: number6;683603
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;683597
I fully understands how talking about user numbers in the hundreds (or below) is provoking to some, but the key term is *user* (not participator in the AW.net social club), and to quote myself from *a year ago* in this thread: "If the numbers seems disappointing to some people, I think they may have had an unrealistic view of the overall 'state of the nation'."
Fine. No how about you present a plan to correct that situation, now that we've completed the 11 page adventure to reach that obvious conclusion.

The only ones who would even bother trying to *use* (as a *desktop* system) MorphOS, OS4 or AROS are the old Amiga enthusiasts that are already here. As a desktop system, it simply won't offer anything to anyone else that established OS's won't do better, so no-one will bother even if given away *for free*, like we have seen with AROS. It can't attract users from the outside using the current model (read: the 1992 "desktop" model, remaining here from when the computer world looked completely different), so the amount of users each of these OS's have is a zero-sum game within the existing (and rapidly shrinking) "Amiga Community". All the OS developers knows this and has probably come to peace with this fact half a decade ago or more already, and none of them really cares, *they are all* (MorphOS, OS4 and AROS) developing their OS as a hobby, and they are developing it into something they would like to use themselves, with no thought about potential commercial applications for the OS outside the community.

Heck, not even Commodore thought of the Amiga as a PC. Had they had the resources and ambition to put up a fight with Microsoft (and Apple) back in the early 1990's where it could have mattered, then Amiga *could* have mattered on the desktop market today. I'm talking about a situation where the Adobe Creative Suite, Microsoft Office, etc, etc, etc would have been running on Amiga OS today (which would probably have been completely different by now anyway), not because someone put up a bounty and donated a developer machine to Apple or Microsoft, but because of Amiga's significance on the desktop market, much like they do on Mac OS. A high single-digit market share could have been enough. But Commodore never had that ambition (they were exploring their own PC line AFAIR), and they for sure didn't have the vast financial muscles this would have taken anyway, as became obvious to everyone in 1995, if not before.

You can say what you want about Bill Buck (and many does :lol:), but nobody can say he isn't constantly pursuing possibilities on new (or at least "new-ish") markets. His plan (through VisCorp) was to buy the Amiga bankrupt's estate and utilize Amiga technology in non-desktop context (while still providing a desktop "on the side"). While I don't think the ED ("Electronic Device", its development code name) would have been a great success back then (the real market for STB's wasn't there yet, at least not in Europe), I think it's a proper way of thinking about Amiga in a commercial context - use its strengths in real, commercial products for *other* markets than the desktop market, while still providing some kind of desktop configuration for developers.

So what are Amiga's strengths?

I think the most prominent strength (the only one) worth anything, is its tiny footprint, its leanness, it's efficiency. This can make really low performance (even "under-performing") devices feel fast, my Efika is a proof of that. And speaking of Efika, the LimePC (which was about to be far more than the netbook the OS4 crowd is talking about now, take a look at the pictures in post #3) can be considered an extrapolation of that one; and again: Here is Bill Buck, and again: Here is the Amiga (in the shape of MorphOS, in a non-desktop form (or at least: *Could* have been, had it been ported to the Efika 1.5 years faster, and then adapted to the needs accordingly after that)). And again: it fell through! :p ;)

There are many areas where Amiga's strengths makes sense, many kind of devices that aren't desktop (and aren't tablet or smartphones either, those ships have also sailed), that benefits from ultra-cheap (virtually no cost), ultra-lean HW. SCALA (Hollywood?) type of applications, In-shop displays, Info Kiosks. In car/in flight/on train info systems/"infotainment", etc. 64-bit, SMP, Memory Protection, resource tracking, etc, etc, won't be needed, not really wanted either, since it will destroy the simplicity by making things complex. Those are desktop kind of things, something Amiga isn't.

And how do you harness these strengths in a commercial context? Well, the first step will obviously to decide that this is what you really want to do, that your primary goal is no longer a desktop for the vanishing Amiga community. You should then carefully *keep* it lean, simple and clean all the way, you don't arbitrary bloat it by throwing .so crap or desktop stuff into the picture in an ad-hoc manner. You should start putting together a package that could meet the demands of the market or market niche you are aiming for.

STB's got itself a real market half a decade past the "ED". I actually think Amiga would make sense in that context. And STB's are moving into TV's now, making them more than "just a TV". Amiga would make sense in a TV, but it would need development to do so. This is still unexplored territory, virgin estate, go claim it! In a few years, the "Apple TV" would have evolved and taken the full step into a 50" iTV you can put on your wall, and Android will as well, both having a new set of media (iMovies, instead of iTunes, oh wait, it's already here!) and a new App-store tuned for this new platform. Do it now, with the right partners, like electronics manufacturers, Spotify, Voddler, whatever (this is nothing you do as a five person, part time cellar company) and who knows, maybe you just might have a chance of claiming that single-digit market share you never got on the desktop market, by the time it becomes relevant to measure market shares on this yet to be developed market...?

But the thing is, those ultra-cheap and low-performance devices aren't made from PPC's, they are made from ARM, which disqualifies both MorphOS and OS4 before even getting to the starting line. These kinds of discussions are utterly pointless as it is.

The Science of Marketing isn't about how to put together an ad for a news paper or magazine, it's about identifying and satisfying needs on a market. And here is the shocker: There is no need on the desktop market for what MorphOS/OS4/AROS has to offer. The problem isn't about lacking promotion or advertizing, it's about completely lacking a commercial context.

But again, in any way, under any circumstances, *nothing* will happen as long as it's being tied to the PPC. The PPC is an Amiga killer, not an enabler, *especially* those costing $3,000...
« Last Edit: March 14, 2012, 02:20:56 PM by takemehomegrandma »
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline takemehomegrandmaTopic starter

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Re: Amount of MorphOS copies sold
« Reply #210 on: March 14, 2012, 12:59:08 PM »
Quote from: antikk;683630
Version numbering is just numbers, but AmigaOS4 is still AmigaOS.


It's teh reel!!1!1!

(Wonder why it took so long...? :lol:)
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline HenryCase

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Re: Amount of MorphOS copies sold
« Reply #211 on: March 14, 2012, 01:44:18 PM »
Quote from: JJ;683690
It is human nature to defend and justify the choices we make


Why do you feel your choices need defending? It's not human nature at all, it's all down to the individual. For example, I'm not a fan of Apple, and occassionally I get people saying I should get an iPhone. I don't feel insecure about choosing an N900, and I don't feel the need to defend my choice, beyond a simple 'my phone is right for me', or something along those lines.

Usually the people that shout loudest to defend their choices, are the ones that are most insecure. If you're truly happy with decision, then this 'defending' becomes largely unnecessary. Please note I'm not singling you out here, this is just a general observation.
"OS5 is so fast that only Chuck Norris can use it." AeroMan
 

Offline hooligan

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Re: Amount of MorphOS copies sold
« Reply #212 on: March 14, 2012, 02:10:24 PM »
Quote from: OlafS3;683695
The weak point of you "MorphOS" users/fans is your proud that is at the edge of arrogance. Really have I to look in aminet and send you all the links? Your proud and ego will be the death of your platform...


I don't know why but once again I got the flashback of this marvellous posting at ann.lu (we are living year 2004) :) : Red and Blue trolls
 

Offline OlafS3

Re: Amount of MorphOS copies sold
« Reply #213 on: March 14, 2012, 02:13:10 PM »
It more reminds me on "Groundhog Day" :-)
 

Offline takemehomegrandmaTopic starter

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Re: Amount of MorphOS copies sold
« Reply #214 on: March 14, 2012, 02:14:48 PM »
@amigadave

:rolleyes:

The reason to why MorphOS registrations are constantly increasing (yes dave, *increasing*) has nothing to do with what people thinks about me or anyone else on *any* website forum. It has everything to do with its qualities and its extremely low threshold of entry. It costs very little to get going, and you get very much for your money. As simple as that.

And the other way around - the reason to why the OS4 graph (had there been one) would look like the MorphOS graph flipped upside down (I'm quite certain it would) in this zero-sum game, has very little to do with peoples opinions of Ben Hermans OS4 community split, what they think of the Friedens regular primadonna rage tantrums, or what people thinks of some of the Amigans.net regulars. It has more to do with the extremely high threshold of entry.

At least when it comes to *real users* (not just people discussion in forums, which doesn't reflect real users very well at all)!

Money *does* matter, maybe not to you, but to most people. And so does what you get for your money. Chatting on a website forum is *not* the same thing as using a system, although HenryCase and some others seems to think so. The problem isn't discussions in forums, nor the participants in the discussions. The problem isn't people voicing their opinions about the lunacy of the X1000, or the redundancy of OS4. The problem is the people trying to suppress these kind of discussions, trying to streamline the collective mind that the problems are no problems at all, making it impossible for the community to collectively learn from these mistakes. Inflicting taboos on discussions is what brought us the X1000, and is what will bring us the X2000 costing twice as much, driving twice as many people away. And you want everyone to stand beside the track, and cheer as it happens, because doing anything else would be "negative", and heavens forbid that!

If I would die tomorrow, it wouldn't change one single thing for neither the MorphOS community, nor the OS4 community, nor the amount of users any of these may have, that's not how it works. Using MorphOS or OS4 or AROS or Classic isn't about kissing, hugging and rolling around in a pile of pillows, and if that is your belief, chances are that you are more into the Social Club thing, than actual usage of either of these systems. Introducing some kind of a "Newspeak Dictionary" where all words that could be used to describe OS4's problems (or the problems of the Amiga in general) are erased, and perhaps a thought police to go with that, won't, and I repeat: *won't* make the problems go away. Discussion might, at least it's a start. And anyone who doesn't agree with me (or anyone else for that matter) in a discussion, is completely free to raise their own voice, lifting their own opinion, putting forward their own arguments. There is nothing wrong with that, it's how it should be. So please stop "apologizing" for me "in the name of the MorphOS community".  People do have brains to think for themselves, and a voice to raise for themselves. You are not a spokes person for me or anyone else. It doesn't work like that.
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline takemehomegrandmaTopic starter

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Re: Amount of MorphOS copies sold
« Reply #215 on: March 14, 2012, 02:16:57 PM »
Quote from: hooligan;683706
I don't know why but once again I got the flashback of this marvellous posting at ann.lu (we are living year 2004) :) : Red and Blue trolls


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Ah, those were the days...

:)
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline itix

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Re: Amount of MorphOS copies sold
« Reply #216 on: March 14, 2012, 02:18:31 PM »
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;683709
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Ah, those were the days...

:)


I miss Ann :-)
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Offline jj

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Re: Amount of MorphOS copies sold
« Reply #217 on: March 14, 2012, 02:24:49 PM »
Quote from: HenryCase;683703
Why do you feel your choices need defending? It's not human nature at all, it's all down to the individual. For example, I'm not a fan of Apple, and occassionally I get people saying I should get an iPhone. I don't feel insecure about choosing an N900, and I don't feel the need to defend my choice, beyond a simple 'my phone is right for me', or something along those lines.
 
Usually the people that shout loudest to defend their choices, are the ones that are most insecure. If you're truly happy with decision, then this 'defending' becomes largely unnecessary. Please note I'm not singling you out here, this is just a general observation.

 
Thats funny because I have an N900 and would argue the toss against iPhone users.  Then I used an Iphone and I cant believe the annoance of using systems like maemo and android anyway thats not the point....
 
Are you mental.  Thats great that you dont feel the need to support shout about the choice of os, computer, car football team etc you make.
 
Most people do, you are inthe minority.  I am not saying this is how things should be, just they way they are.  Sorry when I use the words "I" and "You" I should reallyh be using "One".
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Offline jj

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Re: Amount of MorphOS copies sold
« Reply #218 on: March 14, 2012, 02:30:39 PM »
Would like to clairfy I own a mac mini witha reg morhpos .  JHardly ever used it.  Not used since last update.
 
So would not say I was user.
 
In fact Amiga.org just been my home for sooooo long cant leave.  Thinking of selling all my amiga stuff as don't use it anymore and just takes up space.
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Offline Boot_WB

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Q
« Reply #219 on: March 14, 2012, 02:34:07 PM »
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;683708
@amigadave

:rolleyes:

The reason to why MorphOS registrations are constantly increasing (yes dave, *increasing*) has nothing to do with what people thinks about me or anyone else on *any* website forum. It has everything to do with its qualities and its extremely low threshold of entry. It costs very little to get going, and you get very much for your money. As simple as that.
Actually the real reason is that it is a cumulative total, it's not possible to go down. What's interesting is the first derivative of the graph against time, ie the rate of registrations. This shows exactly what you'd expect - an increased rate of registrations with the introduction of new hardware support, followed by a decline in the rate over time. (Although the increase does stay pretty steadily at 75-100 per 6-month period.)
If anything, the graph shows that each new hardware platform has added a smaller initial 'bump' of new registrations than the previous.

Quote
And the other way around - the reason to why the OS4 graph (had there been one) would look like the MorphOS graph flipped upside down (I'm quite certain it would) in this zero-sum game, has very little to do with peoples opinions of Ben Hermans OS4 community split, what they think of the Friedens regular primadonna rage tantrums, or what people thinks of some of the Amigans.net regulars. It has more to do with the extremely high threshold of entry.
Again, this is a cumulative total so would probably look pretty similar.

Quote
At least when it comes to *real users* (not just people discussion in forums, which doesn't reflect real users very well at all)!
The weaknesses in the MorphOS graph are well established (no tracking of licenses transferred, multiple license ownership, etc). The speculation on OS4 numbers is just that - speculation (however in/accurate).
Additionally, at least the number of downloads shows active useres (if you accept it as a representative number). The MorphOS graph shows simply those who have registered over a several-year period.
Download figures for MorphOS2.7.iso might be a more equally unsound basis for comparison with the Timberwolf figures, if they were available.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2012, 02:40:07 PM by Boot_WB »
Mac Mini G4 (1.5GHz, 64MB VRam, 1GB Ram): MorphOS 3.6
Powerbook 5.8 (15", 1.67GHz, 128MB VRam, 1GB Ram): MorphOS 3.8.

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Offline takemehomegrandmaTopic starter

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Re: Q
« Reply #220 on: March 14, 2012, 03:15:35 PM »
Quote from: Boot_WB;683713
the graph shows that each new hardware platform has added fewer users than the previous.


Indeed it's cumulative, nobody claimed otherwise. And under all circumstances, it's a zero-sum game (few, if anyone at all, are coming in from the outside) in a situation where the total sum (thus *including* MorphOS) is shrinking, not growing. But that's not the point.  

And indeed you can see visible bumps as support for new systems are introduced. I myself am represented at the start of the curve (registering MorphOS 2.0 for my Pegasos 2) and again when Mac Mini was introduced. I'm only using my Mac Mini, so you could divide my "contribution" to the curve with 2; I'm only one user. Some Pegasos owners probably waited a bit as well. And some are probably still using their Pegasos as their only MorphOS system. Maybe some of the first Mac Mini owners later got themselves a Power Mac as well, when that was introduced. But registering MorphOS *is* a financial commitment, thus it's not realistic to think that a great deal of newcomers during *the later* years have multiple registrations; when they got the system (probably a Mac Mini or a PowerMac) they already got from the start what represents the peak of the current options available, thus having little reasons to get multiple licenses, generally speaking. Yet the trend continues, steadily, even though there were several years since support for the last HW was introduced.

You can also see how the *tilt* of the curve got visibly steeper after the introduction of Mac support (and this tilt has been steady for several years now), which clearly shows the benefit of cheap mainstream vs. more expensive custom solutions. Hmm, I wonder how steep the tilt would be, had x86 support been introduced...?

There are many lessons to be learned from this graph! :)

Quote
Again, this is a cumulative total so would probably look pretty similar.


No it probably woudln't, I'd say that the odds are "3000 to 200" (get the point? ;)) that more people from the Classic/AROS/OS4 got themselves a MorphOS machine, than Classic/AROS/MorphOS got themselves a OS4 machine.
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline takemehomegrandmaTopic starter

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Re: Amount of MorphOS copies sold
« Reply #221 on: March 14, 2012, 03:19:36 PM »
Quote from: JJ;683712
So would not say I was user.


Indeed the definition of "user" is very difficult, and for this reason you may be fooled to think that one platform has more *users* than the other, judged by forum activity (you are still here chatting, aren't you? ;)). But at least this phenomenon should strike equally across the entire platform...
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline jj

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Re: Amount of MorphOS copies sold
« Reply #222 on: March 14, 2012, 03:45:39 PM »
I would say the vast majority of people on this site do not use Amigas anymore
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Offline HenryCase

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Re: Amount of MorphOS copies sold
« Reply #223 on: March 14, 2012, 05:35:18 PM »
Quote from: JJ;683711
Thats funny because I have an N900 and would argue the toss against iPhone users.  Then I used an Iphone and I cant believe the annoance of using systems like maemo and android anyway thats not the point....
 
Are you mental.  Thats great that you dont feel the need to support shout about the choice of os, computer, car football team etc you make.
 
Most people do, you are inthe minority.  I am not saying this is how things should be, just they way they are.  Sorry when I use the words "I" and "You" I should reallyh be using "One".


Am I mental?

Here's the thing; I don't define myself through what I buy. Perhaps that is unusual in the consumerist culture we live in, but I don't see what I buy as an extension of who I am, or at least I don't take it personally if others choose something else.

Football team is a good analogy. I couldn't care less about other teams, nor their performance, as long as my team plays well then I'm happy. I don't care if someone supports another team, the performance of my team is what I enjoy.

Does that make more sense to you?
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Offline jj

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Re: Amount of MorphOS copies sold
« Reply #224 on: March 14, 2012, 05:41:23 PM »
Quote from: HenryCase;683740
Am I mental?
 
Here's the thing; I don't define myself through what I buy. Perhaps that is unusual in the consumerist culture we live in, but I don't see what I buy as an extension of who I am, or at least I don't take it personally if others choose something else.
 
Football team is a good analogy. I couldn't care less about other teams, nor their performance, as long as my team plays well then I'm happy. I don't care if someone supports another team, the performance of my team is what I enjoy.
 
Does that make more sense to you?

I perfectly understand you.  I think maybe mental was too strong a word.  I was saying that most people are not like you is all .  Was trying to explain why people defend things the way they do is all.
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