Set the Amiga free... (kickstart)

[number6]

@ number6 & bloodline

Sigh... you don't get it do you who cares about all the crap from the past, I sometimes wonder if certain folk who post here even use an Amiga or C64 anymore, they just seem to like quoting BS articles and legal documents from years ago that don't mean a thing anymore instead of enjoying the Amiga for what it was and still is....

It would be far more useful and helpful if these certain folk put a bit more effort into helping others out who post Amiga hardware/software problems and questions here...

But then maybe if it's been so long since they abandoned the Amiga they've either forget how to answer such questions or maybe they just never owned an Amiga in the first place and just come to these forums for something to do and re-hash the same old stuff over & over again...:rolleyes:

Actually Franko, I do get it. I'm posting from an amiga and I spend hours a day helping people in irc.
It's unfortunate these subjects of ownership keep coming up, but they are actually relevant to what you support.
I get asked constantly by devs of projects about the pitfalls/minefields they may be walking into and how to avoid them. You have no idea how many projects that actually could have been brought to the public have been destroyed by the confusion and legalities surrounding them.

If bringing up such things in public is disturbing, then I apologize.

#6

[dammy]

Stuff the copyright laws, it has been very, very long years if your an Amiga user..

It doesn't matter if you don't like it Frank, it is what it is.   Just pay what Amiga Inc wants for ownership of it's IP and do what you wish with it.  Simple, isn't it?

[dammy]

Well Commodore USA will have to supply the Kickstart and C64 ROMs for their emulators for VICE and UAE so we will finally see who actually owns the Kickstart copyright once and for all.

It's been said publically on commodore-amiga.org that C=USA does have a license from AI for kickstart/wb.

[Franko]

@ Number6

It's not disturbing it's just pointless, until the day someone can finally & conclusively and with a shadow of a doubt prove who owns what...

Until then let the armchair lawyers like Dammy spout their unfounded and unproven legal views, in the meantime I'll just set the stuff free once again and see if anyone who can genuinely prove ownership of it comes forward and demands I stop...

[Franko]

It's been said publically on commodore-amiga.org that C=USA does have a license from AI for kickstart/wb.

So that makes Commodore-Amiga.org the official mouthpiece of CUSA then does it... :lol:

So why doesn't CUSA state it on their own site then

[number6]

@ Number6

It's not disturbing it's just pointless, until the day someone can finally & conclusively and with a shadow of a doubt prove who owns what...

Until then let the armchair lawyers like Dammy spout their unfounded and unproven legal views, in the meantime I'll just set the stuff free once again and see if anyone who can genuinely prove ownership of it comes forward and demands I stop...

Heh. Then you have more in common with Barry Altman than you wish to admit, since that's exactly what he did with the C= logo being placed on his site in order to find out who would complain, thereby determining who owned the license rights.

"Altman says he slapped the Commodore name and logo on his site in an effort to, well, locate the rights holder."

#6

[dammy]

So that makes Commodore-Amiga.org the official mouthpiece of CUSA then does it... :lol:

That is correct, announcements will be made on CA.org

So why doesn't CUSA state it on their own site then

Probably because no one who goes there would care in the first place about that level of legal details.  They want to see product information and pricing.

[dammy]

Heh. Then you have more in common with Barry Altman than you wish to admit, since that's exactly what he did with the C= logo being placed on his site in order to find out who would complain, thereby determining who owned the license rights.

"Altman says he slapped the Commodore name and logo on his site in an effort to, well, locate the rights holder."

#6

Wow, Franko is Barry's long lost brother!  Family reunion time! :rofl:

[number6]

Wow, Franko is Barry's long lost brother!  Family reunion time! :rofl:

I'll throw in another example from 2006, so we don't focus on just the two above:

"Amiga Inc. do care. Just a few months ago, their lawyer ordered a German forum to remove a *video* showing a selfmade 3.9 Kickstart ROM." - cgutjahr

I'm not picking on anyone's methodology at determining ownership here, nor am I supporting it.
It's just a fact that (1)usage (2)wait for response
seems to be be in vogue these days.
Think about what this nonsense does from a developers standpoint.

#6

[commodorejohn]

Stolen property is never free.

Yeah, well, I'll shed a tear for the poor infringed parties when they start demonstrating the tiniest iota of concern for or interest in the actual Amiga community.

[Franko]

I'll throw in another example from 2006, so we don't focus on just the two above:

"Amiga Inc. do care. Just a few months ago, their lawyer ordered a German forum to remove a *video* showing a selfmade 3.9 Kickstart ROM." - cgutjahr

I'm not picking on anyone's methodology at determining ownership here, nor am I supporting it.
It's just a fact that (1)usage (2)wait for response
seems to be be in vogue these days.
Think about what this nonsense does from a developers standpoint.

#6

Thought about it... and came up with ziltch...

[number6]

Thought about it... and came up with ziltch...

Heh.

Since the point was about how confusion of ownership affects amigaland development, I'll give a Jens Schoenfeld example from April, 2007. There are many more, and I'm not implying things have not changed since this was posted.

"Bill McEwen, who hasn't been able to give any proof of ownership of the classic Amiga OS in the past 20 months, who wanted to send me contracts "by the end of the week" (that was in february)"

Surely you can draw the connection between ownership and development confusion here.

#6

[TorbenLarsen]

@ Number6

It's not disturbing it's just pointless, until the day someone can finally & conclusively and with a shadow of a doubt prove who owns what...

Until then let the armchair lawyers like Dammy spout their unfounded and unproven legal views, in the meantime I'll just set the stuff free once again and see if anyone who can genuinely prove ownership of it comes forward and demands I stop...

Franko, you have a very very good point here

Instead of spending time turning things upside down......

I challenge that entity that claims hold the Amiga girl in bondage...

[Franko]

Heh.

Since the point was about how confusion of ownership affects amigaland development, I'll give a Jens Schoenfeld example from April, 2007. There are many more, and I'm not implying things have not changed since this was posted.

"Bill McEwen, who hasn't been able to give any proof of ownership of the classic Amiga OS in the past 20 months, who wanted to send me contracts "by the end of the week" (that was in february)"

Surely you can draw the connection between ownership and development confusion here.

#6

Bill McEwen is just a mad Scotsman, haven't you learned by now not to take anything a mad Scotsman gibbers seriously...

But I do see your point, although if you writing software or building hardware that doesn't include any code that's owned by whomever claims to own Kickstart or the OS then no-one can stop stop you from doing so and trying to sell it, so whomever does legally own it has no say in the matter...

[number6]

Bill McEwen is just a mad Scotsman, haven't you learned by now not to take anything a mad Scotsman gibbers seriously...

But I do see your point, although if you writing software or building hardware that doesn't include any code that's owned by whomever claims to own Kickstart or the OS then no-one can stop stop you from doing so and trying to sell it, so whomever does legally own it has no say in the matter...

Right, but what you just said should explain why not much was seen during the period 2007-2009.
Vaporware threads don't tell the whole story. Heh.

#6

[TorbenLarsen]

yeah, i officially no longer give a crap who legally owns anything about the amiga, since none of them seem very interested in making any of it easily available to the amiga community. I say let's throw our support behind the open kickstart effort, use our outdated os of choice, and let these people rot.

yeees