My evening with Commodore USA, LLC

[EDanaII]

@ WolfToTheMoon:

I'm not exaggerating... first you'd have to rewrite the entire OS, because the current ones are stuck in the 90s in basic features. Then you'd have to get hardware manufacturers to write drivers for it. Then you'd have to write some apps, pay other companies to port theirs to your platform. Then you'd have to market it, which alone would cost you a very large amount of money(commercials on TV, newspapers, internet). After all that, you're still a long way of being sure you will succeed in attracting a lrge enough user base. So my billions are spot on the money

Really? So, you know for a fact that they'd rewrite the OS from scratch? You know exactly how many man-hours are required and the salaries of all the people that would be needed? You know exactly what *I* meant when I said "an up-to-date AmigaOS?"

Them's some pretty impressive skills you got there...

Workbench X will be a Amiga OS. It will run on Amigas and it will be produced by Commodore. Thus, it becomes an Amiga OS. Your argument that it will not be related to any of the current amiga like OSes is valid.

"My coke tastes funny!"


@ Dammy:

Yup, AmigaOS will not be used in conjunction with C=USA Amigas.

Not what I mean, Randy, not what I meant.

I've been chatting a little on the side with Tim, I know a little bit about what's going on with that so-called "follow on" OS and I ain't got a problem with it. Even offered to help if I can, but until then -- and assuming what form it finally takes -- C=USA would be wise to stay away from the Amiga brand. It's just gonna explode in their faces, just like New Coke did. MHO, of course.

[commodorejohn]

Unless of course they are planning to revive it with a modern Amigaoid OS, then the emulator/sandbox is for backward capability for the original OS. So far, all you have seen is the C64x and the Vic series but you want to point to the C64x/Vic as the new Amiga, which it isn't.

Yes, well, until they actually release some real information (any month now, right? Right?) I'd say that it's a reasonable inference. That's what I was really hoping to get out of this, some concrete information on what they want to do with the Amiga and how they plan to do it, not Barry's life story and a list of his business achievements that reads like a Victorian mother pitching an arranged marriage to her kid. "Yes, it's a sensible match, dear, you couldn't do any better! He's experienced, he's built a successful company...what? Well, no, he's not interested in you per se, in fact, I hear of a young lass by the name of Intel he fancies, but money like his'll take care of you in your old age..."

[danwood]

That would be almost as bad as gutting their machine and running it on Intel with a Unix OS... oh wait.

There's a world of difference between running on an x86 architecture and shipping Macs with Windows 7, the reason we were Amiga users/Mac users is because we thought Windows sucked generally.

Even if they manage to skin Ubuntu to look like Workbench, it still won't run Amiga apps.  Apple did a LOT more than just skin up a Linux distro, you cannot compare the two.

[brownb2]

There's a world of difference between running on an x86 architecture and shipping Macs with Windows 7, the reason we were Amiga users/Mac users is because we thought Windows sucked generally.

My point being with Apple they changed the OS to Unix and IIRC they emulate the PowerPC for backwards compatibility. AFAICS that situation is not too different. We could use a custom Ubuntu + UAE file type integration to fire up an integrated emulator that shares the same disks.

Even if they manage to skin Ubuntu to look like Workbench, it still won't run Amiga apps.  Apple did a LOT more than just skin up a Linux distro, you cannot compare the two.

Why wouldn't it run Amiga apps? You could even throw in a Catweasel device or an Amiga floppy as an optional extra when you buy the hardware? Apple added their propriety UI on top of Darwin, for the most part the inners are raw Unix and the pretty Aqua UI is what the Apple guys define as owning an Apple now. The same could be said for Ubuntu + dedicated propriety Amiga OS window manager (which is probably do-able in around 6 months for a small team of well versed developers). A good window manager can do a lot of magical Amiga only things, it's not necessarily a theme. Having said that I'd want to work on one myself now

[psxphill]

And I am not at all opposed to the x86 architecture. I think that's where we should be, but if we are not running our operating system on that architecture what are we doing that's "Amiga" exactly? What's the appeal of getting on those forums and writing about and reading about Amiga if the interest is really Windows and Linux?
 
I'm starting to wish I had been an Atari user.

We're running into this problem: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus
 
If in 1993 commodore had rebuilt AmigaOS in the same way that microsoft & apple have done since, there would be no problem.
 
Ideally each machine should come with a kickstart license & the linux distribution should ship with an integrated version of UAE. So you can have apps that use intuition appear like native apps & h/w hitting apps can be run in a window or made to run full screen.
 
Native applications could be catered for by offering libraries that have the same semantics but then call the real OS (IIRC Apple do something like this to help port old apps).
 
However moving forward I'd expect new applications to be written for linux & it would just be to create a link to the past.
 
A branded linux computer would be interesting, calling it an Amiga would probably get a few sales from people who have an attachment to the name. Similar to how the AmigaOS4 machines did. They only had a tenuous link to the old days & all they have ended up with is expensive hardware and a much more limited OS (because they are limiting themselves to how commodore might have done it).

[r06ue1]

Question:  What is so innovative about putting a PC inside a case that looks like a Amiga?  
 
Absolutely NOTHING!  
 
When the Amiga first hit the market in the mid 80's, that was truly innovative, it blew everything else away (PC's, MAC's, etc...), nothing even came close to what this thing could do.  When I hear what Commodore USA is doing it just makes me want to cry.  If they really cared about Amiga and what it stood for, they would be looking to innovate just as Amiga did in the 80's.  Thinking outside the box (or the PC) would be a great start.  Look at technology of the future, not the present or the past, that is what innovation is.  
 
Commodore USA is just a scam to me.

[dammy]

Question:  Do you even understand what you're supposed to be selling?

The items C=USA are about to put into the market place are the C64x and Vic series.  Do you understand that C=USA Amigas are not scheduled to be launched yet?

[brownb2]

Question:  What is so innovative about putting a PC inside a case that looks like a Amiga?  
 
Absolutely NOTHING!  

Why does it have to be innovative? I understand some people only want it to be innovative to honour the memory of old Commodore and the Amiga. You can do that without innovation by making sure the brand at least survives, think of it as selling Commodore branded PCs. Does that make you feel better?

Eventually Commodore (whichever guise) can invent the next ipod, ipad, iphone, idontgiveacrap but a startup company in a recession can't. You can't invest in research without the funds or investment in a sound business model.

[Khephren]

Why does it have to be innovative? I understand some people only want it to be innovative to honour the memory of old Commodore and the Amiga. You can do that without innovation by making sure the brand at least survives, think of it as selling Commodore branded PCs. Does that make you feel better?

Eventually Commodore (whichever guise) can invent the next ipod, ipad, iphone, idontgiveacrap but a startup company in a recession can't. You can't invest in research without the funds or investment in a sound business model.

I don't care about the brand, and I don't come on here for the brand. I'm here because I like to use the Amiga OS, and it's associated hardware and software.

But building up cash by selling branded product, ok, I don't mind that. But they should not be muddying the waters about a new Amiga/AmigaOS, while at the same time as confusing it with someone elses product, I can't see it helping their cause -As this thread (and others on other forums) demonstrate.

[r06ue1]

"Why does it have to be innovative?"  
 
Because this is what sells, not packaging a PC in a pretty case from the 80's.  Sure they will sell a few but once those people get their case, they won't be a returning customer.  
 
"...honour the memory of old Commodore and the Amiga."  
 
I can do that now by using my old skool Amiga system or running WinUAE on my PC.  
 
Going down the road Commodore USA is following will only end in a dead end.  There is no future in the past.  If they really cared about the Amiga and what it stood for they would be looking to the future, working with the community and partnering with them and those companies that are working on Amiga today to make a product for the future (such as a new OS).  Companies don't have to be Microsoft sized to be innovative and in Microsoft's case, they are one of the least innovative companies out there (unless you call their buying of other companies and repackaging their ideas as their own innovative).  I want Commodore and Amiga to have a future and that is why I posted under this topic, to hopefully wake somebody up and see that there can be a future for Amiga but not when you package a PC in a Amiga case and tell people the future is here.  I build my own PC's and I have my own cases (Alienware cases).  Why would I buy a PC from them that will in most likelihood be less than what I have now?  Some people will buy it for the case but the case is about all you're getting with C=USA.

[Khephren]

If they want to do something cool, they should sponsor NatAmi dev and get AROS onto it. then i'll buy their chinese PC cases

[persia]

Actually the more I read about Barry the more I realise he fits Commodore to a T.  Part success story, part huckster, part sleight of hand artist, it's a match made in heaven.  Commodore always was 2 parts reality to 3 parts belief, Barry will be able to deliver this well.  I'm upping my odds on him, I'd say there's a 50/50 chance that we'll still be talking about him in 5 years time.

[kedawa]

"Why does it have to be innovative?"  
 
Because this is what sells, not packaging a PC in a pretty case from the 80's.  Sure they will sell a few but once those people get their case, they won't be a returning customer.  
 
"...honour the memory of old Commodore and the Amiga."  
 
I can do that now by using my old skool Amiga system or running WinUAE on my PC.  
 
Going down the road Commodore USA is following will only end in a dead end.  There is no future in the past.  If they really cared about the Amiga and what it stood for they would be looking to the future, working with the community and partnering with them and those companies that are working on Amiga today to make a product for the future (such as a new OS).  Companies don't have to be Microsoft sized to be innovative and in Microsoft's case, they are one of the least innovative companies out there (unless you call their buying of other companies and repackaging their ideas as their own innovative).  I want Commodore and Amiga to have a future and that is why I posted under this topic, to hopefully wake somebody up and see that there can be a future for Amiga but not when you package a PC in a Amiga case and tell people the future is here.  I build my own PC's and I have my own cases (Alienware cases).  Why would I buy a PC from them that will in most likelihood be less than what I have now?  Some people will buy it for the case but the case is about all you're getting with C=USA.

I hope you appreciate the irony of an alienware customer complaining about overpriced PCs in gimmick cases.

[brownb2]

I don't care about the brand, and I don't come on here for the brand. I'm here because I like to use the Amiga OS, and it's associated hardware and software.

But building up cash by selling branded product, ok, I don't mind that. But they should not be muddying the waters about a new Amiga/AmigaOS, while at the same time as confusing it with someone elses product, I can't see it helping their cause -As this thread (and others on other forums) demonstrate.

I don't care for the hardware, sure the X1000 if sufficiently powerful sounds cool but I'm here for the nostalgia and the community I remember. I moved onto the no longer grey box PC and that fondness for the custom hardware faded a long time ago and based on a recent poll "would you buy an X1000" it did a long time ago for a lot of other people.  If you can't sell it to the die-hards  here who can you sell it to?
Now if we're talking retro Atari t-shirts and Commodore t-shirts then I'm all in, especially if merchandising nostalgia that would get a company off the ground. For what it's worth I don't like CUSA's new products except perhaps the C64x and I agree they shouldn't muddy waters because that's just going to piss people off...

[commodorejohn]

Why does it have to be innovative? I understand some people only want it to be innovative to honour the memory of old Commodore and the Amiga. You can do that without innovation by making sure the brand at least survives, think of it as selling Commodore branded PCs. Does that make you feel better?

No. No it does not. As I've said before, if there's truly nothing about the real Amiga that they feel is worth salvaging, they should let it die peacefully. And "think of it as selling Commodore branded PCs?" No! If they are naming something "Amiga," they had damn well be delivering something Amiga-like, and I'm not going to just sit back and pretend they're making smaller claims that could be said to be in line with the facts just because people want this to be real. To keep going with my "Victorian mother" analogy, advising us to "lie back and think of Commodore" isn't going to make the proceedings any more satisfying.

I moved onto the no longer grey box PC and that fondness for the custom hardware faded a long time ago and based on a recent poll "would you buy an X1000" it did a long time ago for a lot of other people. If you can't sell it to the die-hards here who can you sell it to?

Except the X1000 does have a following, even if it's one I can't personally fathom, and it is only one hardware-revival project among several. There is still an opportunity to build a successful next-gen Amiga-like hardware platform, unless you're one of the people here for whom "success" is defined as "storm the market and destroy all competitors forever, no exceptions."

[brownb2]

"Why does it have to be innovative?"  
 
Because this is what sells, not packaging a PC...

That's not to say they can't do both.

Going down the road Commodore USA is following will only end in a dead end.  There is no future in the past...  Companies don't have to be Microsoft sized to be innovative... I want Commodore and Amiga to have a future and that is why I posted under this topic...

I've built my own for years too (as I type I'm still on an 2.2Ghz Athlon XP "2700+") but that hasn't stopped me getting a Dell laptop and my better half getting a Dell PC. Some people just don't want to roll their own or want the support. As it stands currently any official Commodore company has no future at all because they aren't selling anything so any company is better than no company or vapourware.

I realise this is getting a bit heated this is not my intention. I just want to state that the Commodore / the Amiga needs a future, any future just as long as it starts the ball rolling and is not a set top box