My evening with Commodore USA, LLC

[Digiman]

Maybe they should invent a time machine? Or Warp drive? because that's as realistic as your proposal(PS3 boards or Natami).

Putting NatAmi inside a PC case which looks like an A3000? :roflmao: if that is unrealistic then there is no hope C= USA will produce anything other than some bullshit low-end PC x86 motherboard in a Amiga lookalike case and stick on crappy Linux and UAE that can't even play PPC 266mhz games for Amiga

Did you speak to Sony? Do you know for a fact they would never ever let you purchase their motherboard to expand their market share at a price of their choosing? No. Which is the same really for all pro C=USA trolls in here...they know nothing and yet they think they know everything

[Digiman]

@ Darrin:

As I pointed out to CommodoreJohn, my original analogy was refering to those arguing that AROS/MorphOS/OS4 wasn't Amiga.

Regardless, yours was a strawman and this from a person who is effectively on the same side as you.



You're switching your analogies again. I think "You're honor, the accuse 'seems' to have killed me!" has even less a chance in court. (I can play this game too. )

This is why some people have argued with you to give them a chance. (This, once again, coming from someone who is effectively on the same side as you. I don't like what they're doing either, but as this is early on plans may change. Only time will tell.)


@ Digiman:

Looks like this mistake is gonna keep coming back to haunt me. Once again: I was referring to those arguing about AROS vs. MorphOS vs. OS4.0. I genuinely DON'T care who is the keeper of the flame, only whether or not we too can have access to it.

Other than that, I only disagree with this point:

There is a positive argument for them here: if it doesn't carry the Amiga legacy, then don't call it "Amiga." Hence my continued points about "New Coke."

I wouldn't have a problem with AROS or Anubis, or even MorphOS or OS4 on these machines. Otherwise, don't call it "Amiga."

Sorry my mistake

[Digiman]

I'll repeat my offer btw. I'll put an "amiga" sticker on my PC, and you guys can buy it for 500 dollars, E-UAE included. Or I'll trade you for an A4000 ;0

People who own A4000s aren't silly enough to fall for this C=USA stuff

[WolfToTheMoon]

Putting NatAmi inside a PC case which looks like an A3000? :roflmao: if that is unrealistic then there is no hope C= USA will produce anything other than some bullshit low-end PC x86 motherboard in a Amiga lookalike case and stick on crappy Linux and UAE that can't even play PPC 266mhz games for Amiga

Did you speak to Sony? Do you know for a fact they would never ever let you purchase their motherboard to expand their market share at a price of their choosing? No. Which is the same really for all pro C=USA trolls in here...they know nothing and yet they think they know everything

That's not the point... would a NATAMI in a Amiga case sell? That's the point?
Sure, you could sell a few hundreds FPGAs... do not think it would justify the investment.

Why would Sony let any other company sell PS3 rebranded? That's crazy... especially considering what they are doing to those guys that broke the "encryption"

[Digiman]

Sure... let's amigafy the crap of them and make it even less suitable for mainstream
In the process, we should also create 3 similar OSes, spread FUD between  them, and choose a CPU architecture that is very expensive and has very  little future on the desktop market. Then, to make things interesting,  we shall announce a MAP... which will be a even more expensive computer  running the same OS and EOL CPU and missing the same features. And it will be GREAT!

Count me in for that

Well why would anyone choose to transcode for x86 from scratch?

1. We have AROS on a slow road to getting there.
2. We have Coldfire CPUs which you can completely rewrite kickstart and workbench to only use legal Coldfire M/L instructions.

Coldfire will be here for a decade, probably longer than AMD looking at their profit/loss records this century. And AROS is well on it's way if you have to have x86

PC Linux running on a PC Windows motherboard will NEVER be Amiga. Is it really that difficult to grasp? Are their really people who are so mentally challenged that they can even attempt to argue it is? :roflmao:

[runequester]

People who own A4000s aren't silly enough to fall for this C=USA stuff

nono, its marketed exclusively through Commodore Amiga Iran.

[Digiman]

That's not the point... would a NATAMI in a Amiga case sell? That's the point?
Sure, you could sell a few hundreds FPGAs... do not think it would justify the investment.

Why would Sony let any other company sell PS3 rebranded? That's crazy... especially considering what they are doing to those guys that broke the "encryption"

Gotcha!

That is the ENTIRE point, NatAMI is Amiga++ with SuperAGA chipset. A PC motherboard is a PC motherboard and that's that. If you uninstall UAE on this C=USA 'Amiga' and double click on some executable files transferred from Deluxe Paint program disk? Bugger all mate because it's a PC.

As for Sony hammering down hard on people who hacked their security codes vs A company asking Sony to officially licence their technology for use in a computer model (and hence have a legal OS Blu-Ray disc supplied for use with their technology) is not even in the same ball park. Methinks you never had any experience of business

As for what sells? If I stick a C= sticker on some rubber dog shit and it sells millions as a novelty icon (mascot for C= USA Amiga 1000? :roflmao: ) does that mean it is a real C= computer? Didn't think so

I love this thread, it is the thread that keeps on giving [user IDs of lunatic blinkered C=USA fanatics]

[Digiman]

nono, its marketed exclusively through Commodore Amiga Iran.

Can I purchase a licence to distribute them through Commodore China too then? Might as well cut out the middleman and go straight to the source of these rubbish motherboards :roflmao:

Ooooh and Commodore China Computer Products = CCCP initials haha awesome logo in the making indeed

[runequester]

Well, the specific processors used in the PS3 may be an exclusive license, but PPC is still manufactured by IBM for all sorts of stuff, so just make an offer for 100.000 boards or whatever, and you can do whatever the heck you want

[danwood]

That isn't the problem.  It is seeing the Amiga name abused that I have issues with.

My thoughts exactly, and I struggle to see how anybody who calls themselves an "Amiga fan" could be happy about this.  Relaunching the "Amiga" as a pc running Windows is a stab through the heart for any real Amiga fans who know and love the machine/os they grew up with. It's a massive insult, imagine how Mac owners would react in the same situation, some pc clone maker starts making "Macs" and shoving Windows 7 on them.

I cannot believe this Barry guy is being so insulting and abusive to the Amiga name/legacy and still has the nerve to call himself a commodore/amiga fan. Os4 might not be the "real amiga" to some, but at least it's the nearest thing we have, and actually runs amiga apps, not just a generic faceless Dell-esq pc clone in an Amiga badged case, how much that saddens me, and what an un-dignified and un-classy end to the Amiga legacy :-(

[runequester]

Can I purchase a licence to distribute them through Commodore China too then? Might as well cut out the middleman and go straight to the source of these rubbish motherboards :roflmao:
 
Ooooh and Commodore China Computer Products = CCCP initials haha awesome logo in the making indeed

The marketing writes itself
 
"Commodore China. A quarter of the world can't be wrong"
 
For those familiar with Commodore history:
 
"Commodore, we do market to the classes. The working classes"

[danwood]

This is 2011, nothing we have is related other than by license to the real amiga. But we can fight and squable and carry on about stuff we don't like, or we can relax, and like what we like and let others do the same.

Simply not true, AmigaOs 4.x not only retains source codes, file structures, and pretty much everything from the Commodore days, but it also runs Amiga apps. This "Workbench 5" Linux distro will not run any Amiga apps, it will run Linux apps, therefore your insistence that Workbench 5 is no less an "Amiga" than Os4 is total bollocks. Os4 may not be made by commodore/amiga, but it IS the Amiga OS we've known and loved for the last three decades, I can still run my 1985 version of Graphicraft on it if I want to, along with Deluxe Paint, Wordworth, Imagine etc. Os4 is still the same Amiga operating system, just recompiled for Ppc.

[danwood]

That's not the point... would a NATAMI in a Amiga case sell? That's the point?
Sure, you could sell a few hundreds FPGAs... do not think it would justify the investment.

Why would Sony let any other company sell PS3 rebranded? That's crazy... especially considering what they are doing to those guys that broke the "encryption"

No it wouldn't sell, but in all honesty I can't see this selling either. At a push, the c64 pc will get a few old farts maybe buying it for a bit of retro-novelty, if it's very low priced (as in, like a toy).

You, yourself said only 5000 or so people in the world are interested in the Amiga today, so that begs the question, why bother? If the brand is so worthless, the existing Amiga community are not interested in a Windows 7/Linux box with an Amiga badge on, anyone who does remember the Amiga will just think of a groundbreaking computer from the 80s/90s, so this machine will not interest them when they see it's just the same as the pc they have sitting on their desk at home.

As someone with a business degree, I cannot see any market for these products. I keep reading that Barry is a fantastic business man, yet I cannot understand who his products are aimed at?

Amiga fans will take a Windows box wearing an Amiga badge as the ultimate insult, so that small market is alienated already.

Amiga commercially died decades ago, we have os4/mos as a hobby, and that's fun, but dressing up a bog standard PC as a 20 year old Amiga, or a 30 year old C64 just won't interest anybody in 2011 imho.

Even when Commodore still had a recognisable brand, Escom etc couldn't shift Commodore pcs, you have even less chance today against the likes of Dell/HP with their cut-throat prices.

At best, put out some Amiga/c64 on a joystick things for £20, he'd shift loads of them, but otherwise, just let these dinosaur brands rest with some dignity, if he really is a Commodore fan, he should know that all he's doing is raping this once-great companies legacy and ruining lots of fond memories for those of us that "were there".

[brownb2]

It's a massive insult, imagine how Mac owners would react in the same situation, some pc clone maker starts making "Macs" and shoving Windows 7 on them.

That would be almost as bad as gutting their machine and running it on Intel with a Unix OS... oh wait.

The Mac owners got behind Apple eventually. I don't see how this would be much different. I'm not C= USA advocate, but afaics the way forward is to get something out doubly quick that at least as some heritage behind it. The longer the X1000 takes the less likely anyone will buy - I for one would expect at least a 4GB quad core jobbie for the price they are going to be charging, which mean's they're already behind

At the end of the day the real Amiga died in the 90s because the market changed, the PC evolved, and Commodore couldn't keep up. Any company attempting the same today and can't adapt/release new tech quickly will die as proven by Escom, Gateway etc. To have a realistic chance mass market penetration is needed and that means selling the brand first IMHO. Innovative new features for these "PCs" can come after.

[AeroMan]

It's a massive insult, imagine how Mac owners would react in the same situation, some pc clone maker starts making "Macs" and shoving Windows 7 on them.

Macs ARE PCs today...
Many people have argued before in this forum that PPC is dead and the best thing we could get for a modern day Amiga is a x86. I've been a PPC enthusiast, and I have to admit that x86 today is the thing to go.
Macs are Unix based. This does not seems to insult Mac users. Actually, I've heard lots of people arguing that anything before OS X is unusable (I disagree...)
I would buy a Commodore USA Amiga, because today, my main Amiga is UAE. I still use my A1200 from times to times, but since most software requires an accelerator board, my A1200 is not capable of doing it.

So, I think it is quite strange that people find out sometimes that we need to go x86 and leave PPC, and all that criticism that CUSA got. If they launch an Unix based WB5, it is going the same way Apple did. If it performs nice, and feels "enough Amiga" I will buy it.

I won't expect miracles from super-duper extremely overpriced, underpowered PPC boards.
Those days are gone. If you want a true Commodore product, go to EBay and buy an original Amiga. Everything else is not Commodore. It might be a good product, it might come from a true C= enthusiast company, but it is as C= as anything else

I will give those guys a chance, because it seems the most reasonable attempt to revive the Amiga that I've seem in a decade. I appreciate what they are doing as much as I do appreciate AROS and Natami and Minimigs.

[redrumloa]

Without pointing fingers, some people are still launching personal attacks in this thread. TOS clearly prohibit personal attacks. You may dislike a product as much as you wish but if you resort to personal attacks, you will receive infractions.

Last warning.