What the F***!

[magnetic]

Duce
I read it in CPU magazine, i'll find it and quote you the study..,

[Duce]

Cool, thanks.  Didn't mean to come off as an argumentative dick, I just enjoy reading different takes on browser security since they tend to vary wildly.

[TheBilgeRat]

this thread has ranged so far over so many topics.  I think it is just the fact that we as tech consumers and Amiga users in particular do not like being spoonfed the same old crap in a new wrapper.  None of us would be having these conversations if there was NO hope.  We'd throw all our eggs into one basket and call it good.  The fact that NatAmi and X1000 are even existing as real silicon speaks volumes to that desire.  Whether their business model (or lack thereof) is any good is a moot point.  I think my main WTF on the CUSA website was "Just who the hell are these people?  Have they spent a day on Amiga.org debating fiercely with Piru over MorphOS vs AOS4?  Have they thrown down on the x86 vs PPC debate?  Are they diehard AROS fans?"  These debates get so passionate on here because most of us actually care about capturing that je ne sais quoi we had when we first used Amiga.  Even in a perfect world where I owned all the rights to the Amiga/Commodore intellectual property and a gazillion euros (better exchange rate vs the US dollar ) to spend on resurrecting the brand, I would consult the community first...even if doing that is like trying to bathe 100 cats while wearing a speedo.

[Iggy]

I don't know why you guys keep bringing up AROS in relation to CUSA. Yes Altman has admitted exploring it and has dismissed it as not ready. Since they haven't reached a 1.0 distribution yet this isn't unfair.
But as has been mentioned before, Hyperion's settlement with AInc. gives them sole right to use 3.1 to develop 4.0, 5.0 and beyond and specifically forbids AInc from creating an OS that has any similarity to those products. This would prevent AInc from licensing such rights as well.
Whether Barry has sought the right to use the Workbench name or not is unknown (it could be considered an abandoned trademark as work has not progressed under that name in decades).
And running emulation software under the WB5 name is likely to be legal. But a new OS that even superficially resembles OS4? Not going to happen with the Amiga name attached to it. So AROS is out.
Buyers of CUSA hardware could load AROS on to their new hardware, but distribution of AROS is a potential point for litigation.

[runequester]

Funny, the constant Linux bashing on Amiga forums. Remember, without Linux there would be almost no software to run on the various Amiga clones. Almost every piece of software available for these systems are Linux ports.
 
I'm running Debian sid (unstable) and it's rock solid, I only reboot when I install a new kernel. And I mess a lot with my system, just for fun or to try new stuff.
 
About Aros being faster than Ubuntu. Well that may be, it's a very bloated distro, But I'm running a very lean setup, build everything from the ground up with a netinstaller.
 
I installed Icaros last summer to play around with. I have to say that installing Icaros on my laptop (a Pentium IV, the only Aros compatible hardware I have) was a very long process, I could have installed 4 linux boxes in the same time. Once installed I was very dissapointed with the speed of Aros compared to my Debian setup on the same hardware, the window managers I use (dwm, i3, pekwm, evilwm and fluxbox) run circles around Aros. I've tried it for a couple of weeks and wiped the Aros install after that.

I guess Im wondering how much faster it (AROS) can be.
Im running ubuntu and my machine boots is about 30 seconds, including the BIOS stuff, and shuts down in 3 or 4.
 
On my friends netbook, it boots in literally 10 seconds.
 

As far as linux bashing, I guess some people feel windows is more "amiga" or they just gave up on feeling any sense of ownership of their software.

[Argo]

I don't know. My A1200 does just fine without memory protection. Runs stable and for months at time. AROS, what this is their stated goal, but in other ways AROS is beyond what 3.1 is.

Really, it would make more sence to bitch about the state of Amiga OS 4 and/or Morphos.

Things are what they are. Don't like it, Leave or work to make it better.

[Iggy]

I don't know. My A1200 does just fine without memory protection. Runs stable and for months at time. AROS, what this is their stated goal, but in other ways AROS is beyond what 3.1 is.

Really, it would make more sence to bitch about the state of Amiga OS 4 and/or Morphos.

Things are what they are. Don't like it, Leave or work to make it better.

What is wrong with the state of AOS4 or MorphOS?
Both are more stable than AROS.
Both have passed from the beta stage AROS persistently lingers in and are available as reliable commercially available products.
I can appreciate the fractious nature of this divide (PPC vs. X86), but when AROS reaches the level of reliability that either of the two existing PPC OS' already have then I'll be willing to listen to comparisons.
Right now, their is no comparison, AOS4 and MorphOS work. AROS  is incomplete and unpolished.

[Argo]

Precisely. As far as a Modern OS they are both more modern than AROS.   So it make more sense to compare them with other OS's or what CUSA is doing than AROS.

[fishy_fiz]

One thing that has always baffled me about responses to AROS is a lot of people are apparently incapable of understanding the difference between "os3.1 compatible" and "being limited to os3.1 compatibility". Sure, AROS does have a goal of being OS3.1 compatible, but both MOS and OS4.x are also os3.1 compatible. While not yet being as mature as either of the ppc "NG" options it does in some ways surpass both in terms of modern functionality and despite knowing this some people still drone on about the idea of it striving for os3.1 compatibility. And before someone gets up in arms about me saying this, no Im not suggesting it's better (or worse).

I also find it a little irritating that people who have no real idea about development, or have never experienced the amiga systems apis 1st hand are quick to dismiss it's apis as incapable of achieving certain things. Just because something hasnt happened yet doesnt mean it wont, or is incapable of it (Im refering to aros mostly here, but this applies equally to other amiga based systems).

[coldfish]

The main problem I have with CUSA is the attempt to market something off-the-shelf (Linux + keyboard PC) as a  "NEW Amiga". This leads one to be naturally cynical of the underlying motives.

If on the other hand they invest time and actual money in more-than off-the-shelf concepts such as custom cases, then you have to give them some credit for going a bit further than making a quick/easy buck on nostalgia.

Wait and see, I guess?

I remember being a bit wary of Cloanto repackaging the freely available WinUAE emulator and calling it AmigaForever.  CUSA could learn a lot by modelling themselves after Cloanto's efforts and motives, or they could just be in it to scrape a quick buck off overly sentimental, nostalgic suckers?

[Thorham]

I don't know. My A1200 does just fine without memory protection. Runs stable and for months at time.

Mostly true... until you start programming in languages such as assembler and c/c++, then you'll wish there was at least optional memory protection.

[phoenixkonsole]

AROS aims 3.1 API compatibility but it has already improvements over the original. Than if you compare MOS and AMigaOS4 i have to say:
Ok MOS is better
AmigaOS 4 is not.... both are my point of view, depending on what i tried
 
AROS has support for more HW already, has the best 3D API in the Amiga-Universe... WIFI, GSM.....
 
Well you all have to understand that "your" bad experiences with AROS may belong to not fully supported HW or a bad build of Virtualbox.
 
AROS has now working Arexx -> next AMC update will take use of this....
The interesting part is that AmigaOS users wanted this but it will not work on AmigaOS too soon because Mplayer for AmigaOS is still ages behind the AROS Version.
 
This and that is better here and there but if you sum up(for the moment) i would say:
1. MOS
2. AROS (Running on optimal HW-configuration)
3. AmigaOS4.x
 
About Linux again:
I had problems like crashes, bad updates (yep packagemanager didn't what he should), looking for the right driver... the need to build it and to realize that this b***tch wan't work like it should.... -> not really nice and not user orientated....
So Mac OS X does it right to hide most UNIX stuff as much as possible.
 
The opposite is if you have fun with doing such things and being the master of your OS than Linux is fine.... but this is not everyones cup of tea.

[fishy_fiz]

Thought I'd get in before someone less diplomatic jumped on this, but you said it yourself. An unoptimal hardware configuration can make an experience less pleasant than an optimal one. This applies to Linux as well as AROS.

[Fab]

AROS has now working Arexx -> next AMC update will take use of this....
The interesting part is that AmigaOS users wanted this but it will not work on AmigaOS too soon because Mplayer for AmigaOS is still ages behind the AROS Version.

But I'd be interested to know why it was decided to release AMC for OS4 (too early) and postpone MorphOS indefinitely, especially when AMC uses a MPlayer version directly coming from MorphOS sources.

[phoenixkonsole]

@Fab
that's easy...
AROS had for me priority (understandable ; ) )
Fabio is AmigaOS user
Fabio has no MOS machine BUT this will change, i will sell the AresPad (the one and only of its kind and will reuse the money for making existing things better and donate HW to Fabio) If someone is interested to exchange a MOS machine we could talk abaout this.
 
On the other hand AMC had still some bugs which are now gone and this leads indirectly to a better AMC for MOS launch release.
 
The time has been used to fix, enhance and Fabio works now on the Emulauncher-PlugIN.
 
With a MOS machine i would assume Fabio would need 1-2Weeks to make it running.

[eb15]

While AROS has "been around" for a long time, its been in a pre-alpha state, and it has only gotten some much needed amiga-ishness implemented or fixed in the last year or so, such as changeable mouse pointer images, the scrolling and dragging screens now available in the native nvidia and intel-950 graphics drivers and a semi-working arexx implementation for applications to use.   So its easy to see where people have tried it and have been disappointed by it.  The windows/ios/android hosted work by sonicamiga and the m68k port work by jason and tony is currently helping to push AROS towards its initial goal of AmigaDOS 3.1 API compatibilities and an ABI-V1 alpha release faster than its ever been moving before.