What the F***!

[AmigaNG]

Except C=USA doesn't care about Hyperion

Obviously they do, as they dropped Aros support due to the treat of legal action from them.

Except Hyperion has zero license agreements or trademarks with the name, "Workbench." Right now AI is battling Cloanto over their trademark name of, "Workbench." What does Hyperion have to do with it?

The whole bases of the case that Amiga Inc have got with Cloanto is that using the name Workbench will damage other Amiga related products, now if they dont mean AmigaOS, what do they mean?

Last Workbench released was 3.x. C=USA should be calling it Workbench4. Would that make you happier?

It be more correct, the only reason I can think they are using version 5 is to make it either seem to be more superior to AmigaOS4 or make it appear its it natural successor. Plus if it has no relation to the original AmigaOS or Workbench, why is it not just called Workbench 1, it is after all the first version of this new OS.

I see nothing on commodoreusa.net that looks like a banner from AO. If you are referring to Commodore-amiga.org, that is non C=USA's web site, that belongs to Terminills.

I agree on that one, but I still see a few things on the commodore site that I'm pretty sure they didn't get permission to use first.

Same can be said for Amigans.net, so what?

Nothing wrong with the Commodore-amiga.org site, its actually the best thing C=USA or its fans have done.

Nope, they never declared it was for Christmas 2010. Now I did read it was supposedly spread out over five years.

Thats still £6 million a year, so what did they spend it on in the first year, it cant be public relation.  :roflmao:. Did they support any Amiga show, event, developer, or any one in the community for its first year? (and don't say well they dont have a product to show, and they only just started business and only just got the rights etc etc, Aeon had only just started only just got something to show and yet still supported every major amiga event and sponsored competition and help developers.) will CommodoreUSA ever do anything like this, it would go a long way to convincing Amiga users and they would only have to spend 1% of there advertising budget, if even that. Just £50 donation towards any part of the amiga community I would be thankful from CommodoreUSA. (and again, this is not blackmail, trying to force the company to invest in an area of the market it has no interest in, but number 1. it would go along way to convincing people they do want to help the amiga community, 2. many other company in amiga world donate, even ageist their business, look at cloanto for example giving donation to make a legal free kickstart when its main business is selling these roms legally. Aeon/trever has donated and bought a lot from morphos and aros camps and he meant to be supporting OS4. 3. I think it would be seen as a good gesture from them. )

[commodorejohn]

AROS is outdated as is every other "modern" Amiga OS derivative. WBX will be based on Linux but it will also offer all the advantages of a modern OS.

Uh, Linux is a "modern OS." Which brings me back to a question from earlier: what is "Workbench 5" going to offer that other Linux distros don't, aside from an "uh, it looks like Workbench!" desktop environment?

(Also, Java's syntax is indeed quite nice - it's the library that's a bitch. Well, that and the fact that the syntax has no support for "using namespace" or any preprocessor mechanism with which that functionality could be replicated, so that you have to refer to every library function by its full path every time you use it.)

[tone007]

Uh, Linux is a "modern OS." Which brings me back to a question from earlier: what is "Workbench 5" going to offer that other Linux distros don't, aside from an "uh, it looks like Workbench!" desktop environment?

It will have far less support than just about any other Linux distro available, unless it's just a rebranded major distro "borrowed" from someone.

[WolfToTheMoon]

Uh, Linux is a "modern OS." Which brings me back to a question from earlier: what is "Workbench 5" going to offer that other Linux distros don't, aside from an "uh, it looks like Workbench!" desktop environment?

legal ROMs and seemless amiga and commodore emulation at install.

It will also feature various software, preinstalled and ready to use. By various I mean almost everything will be covered so that it gets as close as being a substitute for Windows as possible...  It will be aimed at ordinary users who had no prior experience with Linux, that is it should be end-user friendly... At least, that is their plan.

If everything goes OK, they plan to move on from being "just" a custom linux distro to being a custom OS itself. Maybe even switching to BSD. But that is a long way to go... small steps first.

[commodorejohn]

legal ROMs and seemless amiga and commodore emulation at install.

Okay, so we'd be paying in order to save ourselves five minutes of minor inconvenience and maybe even a whole hour of agonizing over the morality of using an abandonware BIOS?

It will also feature various software, preinstalled and ready to use. By various I mean almost everything will be covered so that it gets as close as being a substitute for Windows as possible...  It will be aimed at ordinary users who had no prior experience with Linux, that is it should be end-user friendly...

Okay, what exactly would bring it closer to Windows that other user-friendly distros don't have? An open-source clone of Microsoft Pinball?

If everything goes OK, they plan to move on from being "just" a custom linux distro to being a custom OS itself. Maybe even switching to BSD. But that is a long way to go... small steps first.

Okay, "switching to BSD" is a pretty strange definition of "custom OS."

[dammy]

Obviously they do, as they dropped Aros support due to the treat of legal action from them.

AFAIK, AROS was dropped on several reasons.  One was it wasn't ready for prime time since it could not use the second core of the dual core Atom.  It would crash and do other annoying things that would not be viable for a commercial project of this size.  Yes, the legal issue made Leo nervous but I still say he should reread the agreement between AI and Hyperion again, there is significant wording in that agreement that should sooth his nerves.

The whole bases of the case that Amiga Inc have got with Cloanto is that using the name Workbench will damage other Amiga related products, now if they dont mean AmigaOS, what do they mean?

Hell if I know, I am not AI nor C=USA.  Go ask AI.

It be more correct, the only reason I can think they are using version 5 is to make it either seem to be more superior to AmigaOS4 or make it appear its it natural successor. Plus if it has no relation to the original AmigaOS or Workbench, why is it not just called Workbench 1, it is after all the first version of this new OS.

AI apparently has given it's blessing to use the term Workbench.  Go ask them.

I agree on that one, but I still see a few things on the commodore site that I'm pretty sure they didn't get permission to use first.

We don't know what they have permission to use and what they don't.  If you have IP they are using without permission, your free to seek corrective measures.  

 

Nothing wrong with the Commodore-amiga.org site, its actually the best thing C=USA or its fans have done.

It's fans, and yes it's evolving quickly under Terminill's work.

Thats still £6 million a year, so what did they spend it on in the first year, it cant be public relation.  :roflmao:.

No, it's $6 million USD @ year if it's all done equally which I doubt.

Did they support any Amiga show, event, developer, or any one in the community for its first year? (and don't say well they dont have a product to show, and they only just started business and only just got the rights etc etc, Aeon had only just started only just got something to show and yet still supported every major amiga event and sponsored competition and help developers.) will CommodoreUSA ever do anything like this, it would go a long way to convincing Amiga users and they would only have to spend 1% of there advertising budget, if even that. Just £50 donation towards any part of the amiga community I would be thankful from CommodoreUSA. (and again, this is not blackmail, trying to force the company to invest in an area of the market it has no interest in, but number 1. it would go along way to convincing people they do want to help the amiga community, 2. many other company in amiga world donate, even ageist their business, look at cloanto for example giving donation to make a legal free kickstart when its main business is selling these roms legally. Aeon/trever has donated and bought a lot from morphos and aros camps and he meant to be supporting OS4. 3. I think it would be seen as a good gesture from them. )

I am not expecting much out of C=USA until they are making a profit.  Which means they start selling C64x in high volume to their distribution systems.  I'm not expecting much out of WB5 either, something really worth while takes a significant amount of time which C=USA hasn't really had enough of do much.

[persia]

Ummm, X is 10 in Roman Numerals, I think you mean WBV...

AROS is outdated as is every other "modern" Amiga OS derivative. WBX will be based on Linux but it will also offer all the advantages of a modern OS.

BTW, AROS hosted is very good on Linux. It shouldn't be too much of a problem to incorporate it seemlessly into WBX for those who want to have it.

[WolfToTheMoon]

Ummm, X is 10 in Roman Numerals, I think you mean WBV...

I used X simply because naming is not set in stone yet.

[phoenixkonsole]

AFAIK, AROS was dropped on several reasons. One was it wasn't ready for prime time since it could not use the second core of the dual core Atom. It would crash and do other annoying things that would not be viable for a commercial project of this size. Yes, the legal issue made Leo nervous but I still say he should reread the agreement between AI and Hyperion again, there is significant wording in that agreement that should sooth his nerves.
 
 
 
Hell if I know, I am not AI nor C=USA. Go ask AI.
 
 
 
AI apparently has given it's blessing to use the term Workbench. Go ask them.
 
 
 
We don't know what they have permission to use and what they don't. If you have IP they are using without permission, your free to seek corrective measures.
 
 
 
It's fans, and yes it's evolving quickly under Terminill's work.
 
 
 
No, it's $6 million USD @ year if it's all done equally which I doubt.
 
 
 
I am not expecting much out of C=USA until they are making a profit. Which means they start selling C64x in high volume to their distribution systems. I'm not expecting much out of WB5 either, something really worth while takes a significant amount of time which C=USA hasn't really had enough of do much.

: D AROS NOT ready on prime time? HAHAHAHA .... even if AROS uses only one Core of the ATOM it is faster than Ubuntu. Linux sucks in terms of performance.. it is a secure modular OS but no multimedia system.
 
Whatever...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj6qC94k1oQ
-> this was done in under 3hours.... so there was and is plenty of time ; )
Especially if you have 30Mio $.... hmpf...
 
Oh and Linux crashes also. Start experimenting and it will crash too.

[WolfToTheMoon]

it's not ready for prime time. I've used AROS and it's far, far from being able to be marketable to mainstream users. It lacks stability, software, modern features and it's UI is too old-fashioned(Zune upgrade cannot come sooner really)

I'd be more interested in a Syllable OS(or maybe even Haiku) based AresOne. It's got much more potential then AROS will, probably, ever have.

[klx300r]

..Thats still £6 million a year, so what did they spend it on in the first year, it cant be public relation.  :roflmao:. Did they support any Amiga show, event, developer, or any one in the community for its first year? (and don't say well they dont have a product to show, and they only just started business and only just got the rights etc etc, Aeon had only just started only just got something to show and yet still supported every major amiga event and sponsored competition and help developers.) will CommodoreUSA ever do anything like this, it would go a long way to convincing Amiga users and they would only have to spend 1% of there advertising budget, if even that. Just £50 donation towards any part of the amiga community I would be thankful from CommodoreUSA. (and again, this is not blackmail, trying to force the company to invest in an area of the market it has no interest in, but number 1. it would go along way to convincing people they do want to help the amiga community, 2. many other company in amiga world donate, even ageist their business, look at cloanto for example giving donation to make a legal free kickstart when its main business is selling these roms legally. Aeon/trever has donated and bought a lot from morphos and aros camps and he meant to be supporting OS4. 3. I think it would be seen as a good gesture from them. )

+1 but this makes logical sense..something CUSA and AI apparently have none of.

[dammy]

: D AROS NOT ready on prime time? HAHAHAHA .... even if AROS uses only one Core of the ATOM it is faster than Ubuntu. Linux sucks in terms of performance.. it is a secure modular OS but no multimedia system.

I don't use Ubuntu.  It depends on what garbage you add to Linux to make it a slow pig.
 

Whatever...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj6qC94k1oQ
-> this was done in under 3hours.... so there was and is plenty of time ; )
Especially if you have 30Mio $.... hmpf...
 
Oh and Linux crashes also. Start experimenting and it will crash too.

I can't remember the last time my Linux box crashed, but I'm just a end user and not a Dev.  A decent OS is going to take time, AROS has taken what, 14 years to get to where it is today?  I think C=USA inked the deal with AI this past fall.  That's not much time really when you think what has to happen before the first machine can roll off the assembly line.

[runequester]

I don't use Ubuntu.  It depends on what garbage you add to Linux to make it a slow pig.

If people are concerned with speed, they can load up DSL or another 50 meg distro that can run entire in RAM.
 

I can't remember the last time my Linux box crashed, but I'm just a end user and not a Dev.  A decent OS is going to take time, AROS has taken what, 14 years to get to where it is today?  I think C=USA inked the deal with AI this past fall.  That's not much time really when you think what has to happen before the first machine can roll off the assembly line.

People have some amazing expectations about what it actually takes to write an OS.

Windows and Mac OS has been developed over decades, by billion dollar corporations. Linux has been developed over decades, with thousands of contributors, including plenty of billion dollar corporations.

That AROS is where is at, is nothing short of amazing, but the notion that it'll swoop in and suddenly get people to buy that instead of windows is futile.

[the_leander]

: D AROS NOT ready on prime time? HAHAHAHA ....

By no measure that I'm aware of could AROS be said to be "ready for prime time". AFAIK it's still considered an Alpha release.

even if AROS uses only one Core of the ATOM it is faster than Ubuntu.

Ubuntu != Linux. And you might be right about it being more responsive than Ubuntu is initially, and that's fine but the moment you attempt to do anything remotely processor intensive that second core that Ubuntu can tap will leave AROS standing. Also there are lightweight versions of both Linux and Ubuntu that negate much of your complaint.

 Linux sucks in terms of performance.. it is a secure modular OS but no multimedia system.

Depends on the distro as far as "speed" goes. And as far multimedia is concerned, there's very little I can't play quite comfortably, even on an EeePC 701 using Kubuntu 10.04.
 

Oh and Linux crashes also. Start experimenting and it will crash too.

Sure I can make Linux crash, I can make any OS crash, the difference is that lacking things like system wide memory protection, an application crashing is highly unlikely to cause the rest of the system to croak. All in all I find Linux to be rock solid when put on well supported hardware.

[TheBilgeRat]

My Athlon X2 with an nVidia video card drew 190 watts peak and idled at 160 watts.  My quad core Core 2 with Intel X4500 peaks at 60 watts and idles at 40.  My Revo media PC with nVidia Ion peaks at 20 watts and idles at 5.

Sleep didn't really work well with the Athlon, so it basically ran 24/7.  That put it's power usage at ~115kwh/month.  At the California rate of $.037/kwh, it cost ~$43/month to run.  Sleep works much better on my Core 2, so it run ~16 hours a day.  That put's it's power usage at ~24kwh/month costing ~$9.  That gives me a savings of $34/month.  Everything in the machine is faster, including the video, and the system cost only $500.  That means replacing the machine took 14 months to pay for itself.  Now, I realize that some place pay a third for electricity than we do, but even then a P4 would easily pay for it's own replacement.  It would just take a few years instead of 1.

The Revo's atom is as fast as a P4, and the video is better than anything that came in a P4.   Even if your in one of those amazing places that sell you electricity at $0.10/kwh, it would take in the range of a year to replace the P4.

My wife's brand new laptop with an i5 draws 30-50 watts, and only cost $700.  I have no idea where you spend $2k on computers.  Even most Macs don't cost $2k.

Edit:
OK, I reread your post.  Your comparing apples to oranges.  You don't replace a P4 with a high end PC.  You replace a P4 with a $200 net top.  You will get equal performance, and a massive drop in electric usage.  Why would you feel the need to buy a high end computer if a P4 is even usable?  A $500 PC will give you massive speed ups over a P4.

Well, there's part of it- Cali electric rates

I will buy another high end computer here whenever they can demonstrate that it 1.) Will run games that I want to play that I can't already on a PS3 or 360 (so far that's a negative--WOW doesnt "wow" me and SC2 doesn't interest me either) 2.) is a RADICAL departure from current methodology or 3.) makes VIM telepathically controlled.  Oh, and 4)  My P4 blows up.  It is my experience that without programs that make use of 64bit arches and OSes that do the same, the flasgship of 32bit x86 has less compatibility issues, runs more software, and has already paid for itself.  Now, if I was an artsy-fartsy "film and picture editor" the answer would be simple-buy that 2 grand apple cinema display and a new MacPro.  That would run arounf 4 grand.  If I was a SC2 whore, I'd spend right around 2 grand for a mobo, phenom 2 Black, as much ram as I could stuff in, the fastest SSD, Realforce Torpe keyboard....Hell the keyboard is 260...(as much as the new Dell I have downstairs.)

[AmigaNG]

I am not expecting much out of C=USA

thats the best thing you've said!

look I maybe consider a troll when it come to C=USA threads and my opions on them, if they deliver everything they promised then maybe, just maybe I might do business with them and even support them, but so far a lot of promising, like they were going to support Aros, and their actions, like the ever changing Amiga fantasy case copyright text, treating legal action ageist Osnews, (hell even ageist me for my funny little youtube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlDagZX1vWI)  and saying thing like who gave wayne the right to the Amiga.org domain etc etc, lets just say there action to date have not really impressive me.