FPGA Replay Board

[matthey]

There were a couple for the Amiga that did when you turned on the 040 optimizer, and all of us assembly guys used MOVE16 whenever the 040/060 was present.  Also, the Mac OS used it extensively on their 040 based models.

I have looked at a lot of disassembled Amiga 68k code. I have not seen any version of GCC, SAS/C or vbbc generate a MOVE16 instruction. I have not looked at MAC code so perhaps CodeWarrior generated MOVE16. MOVE16 is generally not used in general purpose code because of the alignment restrictions and the fact that the cache is bypassed.

I still think emulating the supervisor/user modes and some other simple added instructions would go a long ways with the FPGA core to make it 020 compatible.  This is something I am interested in looking at when I get ahold of one of these boards.

I haven't seen a list of the instructions supported by the TG68 but I thought it was fairly complete as far as 68020 integer instructions. It has MOVEP and the bitfield instructions which are common on the Amiga. A 68k Macintosh emulator probably needs more support though .

MOVE16 was at least used in some of the CopyMem patches: http://aminet.net/package/util/boot/CopyMem
 

Sure, there are a few patches on the Amiga but MOVE16 is only worthwhile when copying data greater than several kilobytes and the Amiga doesn't copy data that big very often. MOVE16 is barely worth using on a 68k Amiga and I'm the author of CopyMem mentioned above. Linux would be a different story as it copies large amounts of memory and flushing the caches when doing so would likely deteriorate performance.

[psxphill]

Sure, there are a few patches on the Amiga but MOVE16 is only worthwhile when copying data greater than several kilobytes and the Amiga doesn't copy data that big very often. MOVE16 is barely worth using on a 68k Amiga and I'm the author of CopyMem mentioned above.

Some software uses it and the replay board isn't just an Amiga, it would make sense to reuse the same cpu core for running MacOS or any other operating system.
 
I'm not sure I'd argue that it's not worthwhile if I'd actually released something that used it.

[ChaosLord]

MOVE16 is barely worth using on a 68k Amiga and I'm the author of CopyMem mentioned above.

Hehe that is how I always felt about it.  I was a really hardcore asm coder and yet I never used Move16.  I coded a bunch of special purpose copy routines for high speed screen updates.  I thought about making a special version for use on CPUs that have the Move16 instruction but I was like, meh...   So all my gfx copying routines just use move.l.  I really should force myself to write a move16 version.  Someone told me once that it conflicted with certain hardware.  Any truth to that?

[matthey]

Some software uses it and the replay board isn't just an Amiga, it would make sense to reuse the same cpu core for running MacOS or any other operating system.

True. MOVE16 shouldn't be very difficult to support and it may be possible to provide a speedup when using it. Difficult would be CAS and CAS2 which the Macintosh also uses.

I'm not sure I'd argue that it's not worthwhile if I'd actually released something that used it.

I'm not afraid of the truth whatever it is . There probably are Amiga programs that benefit from using MOVE16 for larger memory copies but they would be rare. Also, future programs could potentially benefit.

Hehe that is how I always felt about it.  I was a really hardcore asm coder and yet I never used Move16.  I coded a bunch of special purpose copy routines for high speed screen updates.  I thought about making a special version for use on CPUs that have the Move16 instruction but I was like, meh...   So all my gfx copying routines just use move.l.  I really should force myself to write a move16 version.  Someone told me once that it conflicted with certain hardware.  Any truth to that?

There was a MOVE16 bug in some early 68040s. Recovery after a crash while using MOVE16 may not be possible as ThoR mentions in the Mu 68060.library docs. I haven't heard of anyone having a problem using MOVE16 though.

[Dopuser]

This will also mean the daughterboard can go directly into volume production.
/MikeJ

Hi,

 What about MC68060 then? Any chance to order the daughter board together with MC68060 there?

[mikej]

If I can find some, yes

[espskog]

Will you ship the first daughterboard out with fitted 060 to us with the pre-released beta boards first ?

[mikej]

Of course, existing board owners who have been waiting for the daughterboard will be first. I can't promise 060s at the moment though (well, I can but not the final mask set).
/MikeJ

[bbond007]

Of course, existing board owners who have been waiting for the daughterboard will be first. I can't promise 060s at the moment though (well, I can but not the final mask set).
/MikeJ

My 1200 has a Rev1 and I'm not sure I ever had a issue related to that.

What is the downside to not having the final mask? Just clock speed?

thanks

[Darrin]

Of course, existing board owners who have been waiting for the daughterboard will be first. I can't promise 060s at the moment though (well, I can but not the final mask set).
/MikeJ

Excellent.  I'll take one as soon as they're ready, fitted with what type of 68060 you can get your hands on.  

[ChaosLord]

I'm not afraid of the truth whatever it is . There probably are Amiga programs that benefit from using MOVE16 for larger memory copies but they would be rare. Also, future programs could potentially benefit.

If I copy 327K from fastram to fastram, how much speedup would Move16 provide?

If I copy 327K from fastram to chipram, how much speedup would Move16 provide?

[wizard66]

Of course, existing board owners who have been waiting for the daughterboard will be first. I can't promise 060s at the moment though (well, I can but not the final mask set).
/MikeJ

Great MikeJ, Still have a 68060 71E41J on my bench, but maybe it's fake but i cant test it because i have no classic amiga around (only a A600).
We see what happens when the daughterboard is here :-)

[ChaosLord]

I was quoted a price of 1015 Euros for a fully loaded Replay with all bells, whistles and gizmos and case and power supply and 64GB SDXC memory card.

I quickly agreed so I could get onto the Replay preorder list.

I figured it would be like $1200.00 which I happen to have in my bank account, just barely.

But when I later googled I found out that 1015 Euros = $1364.00

CRIKEY!

Now I think I understand why ppl buy their own cases and power supplies!

I can rob my grocery cash to pay the difference so I can still buy the Replay.  Since they won't let me buy it right this second I am thinking I should investigate cases and power supplies.

I just don't know anything about cases or power supplies.  What kind would I need to get?  Are they routinely sold cheaply at NewEgg?

Does it matter which one I get?  Any secret gotchas?

Is it important to buy a very super specific case so that the memory cards can be easily swapped?

I am thinking that if I did go ahead and buy my own case and powersupply that I could avoid a 25% tax to the King of Sweden and another 33% tax to the Exchange Rate Powers That Be.

I don't mind paying 58% tax to MikeJ, Yaqube or anyone who worked on Replay.  They deserve my $$$.   But I don't like to pay tax to governments that don't deserve it or to the Exchange Rate Gods.

What kind of cases and power supplies are you guys getting?

[cunnpole]

What kind of cases and power supplies are you guys getting?

Glue gun to the back of my TV, with a suitable pico-itx psu from http://www.mini-itx.com/store/ or similar.

[mikej]

I was quoted a price of 1015 Euros for a fully loaded Replay with all bells, whistles and gizmos and case and power supply and 64GB SDXC memory card.

I quickly agreed so I could get onto the Replay preorder list.

I figured it would be like $1200.00 which I happen to have in my bank account, just barely.

But when I later googled I found out that 1015 Euros = $1364.00

CRIKEY!

Now I think I understand why ppl buy their own cases and power supplies!

I can rob my grocery cash to pay the difference so I can still buy the Replay.  Since they won't let me buy it right this second I am thinking I should investigate cases and power supplies.

I just don't know anything about cases or power supplies.  What kind would I need to get?  Are they routinely sold cheaply at NewEgg?

Does it matter which one I get?  Any secret gotchas?

Is it important to buy a very super specific case so that the memory cards can be easily swapped?

I am thinking that if I did go ahead and buy my own case and powersupply that I could avoid a 25% tax to the King of Sweden and another 33% tax to the Exchange Rate Powers That Be.

I don't mind paying 58% tax to MikeJ, Yaqube or anyone who worked on Replay.  They deserve my $$$.   But I don't like to pay tax to governments that don't deserve it or to the Exchange Rate Gods.

What kind of cases and power supplies are you guys getting?

ChaosLord,
Who has quoted you this?
There is no pricing for the daughterboard yet. Please mail me privately.

If you are outside the EU then you will pay no VAT - although you may pay import duty.
The guide price for the main board (from me) is expected therefore to be 199EU (without comp/svhs) or 229-239EU with. Exact pricing is dependant on import duty and final manufacture cost, and may vary between runs with exchange rate.

I would make this 270 USD for the base board + shipping.
If the board is from one of my resellers, they then charge for integration, cases and support etc so the price will be higer.
/MikeJ

[Hattig]

€800 is a lot for a case, power supply, some memory cards, etc!

Get a mini-Itx case with PSU or without PSU (but then you need a picoPSU + 12V AC/DC convertor (aka external brick)).

Personally I'm thinking of mounting the board between two slabs of perspex, although the pico-PSU cabling might look a bit messy. Maybe smoked perspex rather than clear.