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Offline yaqube

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Re: FPGA Replay Board
« Reply #2069 from previous page: December 13, 2012, 08:59:48 PM »
Quote from: ChaosLord;718896
Ok so it sounds like we can have up to 64MB of chipram and use the daughterboard for 128MB fastram.

Can the RTG RAM share the chipram?  Or not?


As I've said once before our DDR memory controller is dual ported. One port is connected to the AGA chipset and the CPU while the other one is used exclusively by the RTG display module. It means the CPU can write to RTG memory with the same speed regardless of display mode.

The RTG RAM is allocated by our Picasso96 driver from CHIP RAM pool. So if we want to have 8MB graphics card we need to allocate 8MB of CHIP RAM. If we want 32MB RTG buffer we need to allocate 32MB of CHIP RAM.

Quote
Like could we have 64MB chipram + 64MB RTG ram using the same block of RAM on the mainboard?


No, because it's the same physical memory. In fact we can have maximum 50MB of CHIP RAM (2MB standard + 48MB extra). The rest of 64MB is used by ROM, SLOW and Z2 FAST RAM.

Quote
I am just trying to work out what the capabilities are.
If they can't share the same mem then when I write my RTG game for Replay I would prob say "If u have the 060 daughterboard: Set ur chipram to 4MB and your RTG RAM to 60MB"



Right now the Picasso96 driver decides how much RAM it wants to use so if you want to use RTG you should set the CHIP RAM config to maximum.

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I am also curious as to how fast the 060 can copy data from its 128MB bank of fastram to the mainboard RAM.


The actual speed depends heavily on chipset activity. The CPU can write to the CHIP RAM as fast as 28 MB/s. With all DMA channels active (excluding the blitter) the speed drops to 14 MB/s. The RTG display uses another memory access port so no matter what the RTG display mode is the CPU can write to the RTG memory always with maximum speed.

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Its makes a giant difference as to what I can do with Animation.  When the Natami work evaporated, it was really really slooow to copy from fastram to chipram with the CPU.  That part of the memory controller had not been optimized in any way.  So I am curious if ur memory controller suffers the same limitation/flaw.


Our memory controller can be optimized further. Right now it's faster than any other Amiga chipset.

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My CPU blitting routines are over 140x faster than the AGA blitter on Real AGA Amigas.  But that only works if the CPU can copy data from Fastram to Chipram in a reasonable manner.  If you have a great memory controller then my routines will go even faster on Replay.  But if your memory controller is crippled then my speed could drop to 10x blitter speed which would be really completely useless for my hires hispeed animated gamez.


Our CHIP RAM controller is two times faster than in the fastest Amiga. It means the blitter can move data at least twice as fast. The difference is higher when more bitplanes are displayed.

For compatibility reasons the AGA blitter is 16-bit like its real counterpart. But I have implemented another 32-bit blitter to accelerate RTG operations. It's much faster.
 

Offline ChaosLord

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Re: FPGA Replay Board
« Reply #2070 on: December 13, 2012, 09:25:16 PM »
Thank u for all the delicious details!

Quote from: yaqube;718940

For compatibility reasons the AGA blitter is 16-bit like its real counterpart.

Smart decision.

Quote

 But I have implemented another 32-bit blitter to accelerate RTG operations. It's much faster.

Excellent decision!

You are very intelligent!

I can't believe I wasted 20 hours trying to convince Gunnar to make a better blitter when I should have directed my typing at you instead.

How many Mhz does your 32-bit RTG blitter run at?

Does the RTG blitter have some internal SRAM buffer space it can use to speed up blitting?

The reason my blitting routines are so fast is that I mix multiple layers of gfx inside the CPU registers.  A cpu register is way the hell faster than fastram or chipram.

So my blits work like this:
Blit(source1, source2, source3, source4, source5, source 6, source7,  source8, destination)

So I save massive amounts of memory bandwidth over the oldskool Natami blitter.

Using Natami blitter or AGA blitter I must do it the lame way:
Blit(source1,destination);
Blit(source2,destination);
Blit(source3,destination);
Blit(source4,destination);
Blit(source5,destination);
Blit(source6,destination);
Blit(source7,destination);
Blit(source8,destination);

This wastes massive amounts of memory bandwidth and bus bandwidth.

So its way faster for me to do blitting with CPU on 030.  Wayyyy faster on 060.

If ur blitter has some internal SRAM to work with then you could implement a multisource to one destination blitter that would massively increase blitting power.

Something for u to think about :)

If u can't do it that's ok.  I can keep using my 060 to do the blitting.
Wanna try a wonderfull strategy game with lots of handdrawn anims,
Magic Spells and Monsters, Incredible playability and lastability,
English speech, etc. Total Chaos AGA
 

Offline ChaosLord

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Re: FPGA Replay Board
« Reply #2071 on: December 13, 2012, 09:35:35 PM »
Quote from: yaqube;718940

The actual speed depends heavily on chipset activity. The CPU can write to the CHIP RAM as fast as 28 MB/s. With all DMA channels active (excluding the blitter) the speed drops to 14 MB/s. The RTG display uses another memory access port so no matter what the RTG display mode is the CPU can write to the RTG memory always with maximum speed.


Ok so I can write to the RTG ram at 28MB/sec.

On my A1200 with Mediator I can only write to RTG at 9MB/sec

Replay FTW!

OTOH the Mediator has a 256MB gfx card with superfast Radeon blitter.
I "just assume" that the radeon blitter is faster than the Replay RTG blitter.




I hope Replay is a big success and then a couple years down the road u could make a Replay2 :)
Wanna try a wonderfull strategy game with lots of handdrawn anims,
Magic Spells and Monsters, Incredible playability and lastability,
English speech, etc. Total Chaos AGA
 

Offline XDelusion

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Re: FPGA Replay Board
« Reply #2072 on: December 13, 2012, 10:18:20 PM »
What would also be cool is to see Amiga Flash back systems in stores some day like there are Atari Flash back systems. :)
Earth has a lot of things other folks might want... like the whole planet. And maybe these folks would like a few changes made, like more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and room for their way of life. - William S. Burroughs
 

Offline Hattig

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Re: FPGA Replay Board
« Reply #2073 on: December 13, 2012, 10:37:12 PM »
Some nice details there, thanks yaqube!

Does the RTG implementation have any other acceleration - line draw, block fill, etc (functions within graphics.library would be the best things to accelerate)?

I'll be buying a Replay just because supporting it now makes the likelihood of a Replay 2 in five years time higher. Never mind the chance of updates to the Replay implementing even faster features.
 

Offline AmigaClassicRule

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Re: FPGA Replay Board
« Reply #2074 on: December 13, 2012, 11:34:29 PM »
Quote from: Hattig;718951
Some nice details there, thanks yaqube!

Does the RTG implementation have any other acceleration - line draw, block fill, etc (functions within graphics.library would be the best things to accelerate)?

I'll be buying a Replay just because supporting it now makes the likelihood of a Replay 2 in five years time higher. Never mind the chance of updates to the Replay implementing even faster features.


I want one too. where can I order one?
 

Offline bbond007

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Re: FPGA Replay Board
« Reply #2075 on: December 14, 2012, 04:31:30 AM »
Quote from: AmigaClassicRule;718881
What you are saying that I could enjoy the pleasures of AGA on a TV without its limitation? That this new AGA is actually a new build in custom chipset not emulated and build from scratch and in fact could be treated as AGA+?


Well, even the ECS in the minimig 1.1 when in turbo mode will outperform AGA in some cases....
 

Offline AmigaClassicRule

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Re: FPGA Replay Board
« Reply #2076 on: December 14, 2012, 05:17:14 AM »
Quote from: bbond007;718977
Well, even the ECS in the minimig 1.1 when in turbo mode will outperform AGA in some cases....

Yeah, but still where can I get the board?
 

Offline Darrin

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Re: FPGA Replay Board
« Reply #2077 on: December 14, 2012, 07:13:38 AM »
Quote from: AmigaClassicRule;718982
Yeah, but still where can I get the board?


Seems AmigaKit have sold out.

If you do find some in stock then make sure you get the 4MB upgrade.  Personally I'd just wait for the FPGA Aracde at this point.
A2000, A3000, 2 x A1200T, A1200, A4000Tower & Mediator, CD32, VIC-20, C64, C128, C128D, PET 8032, Minimig & ARM, C-One, FPGA Arcade... and AmigaOne X1000.
 

Offline AmigaClassicRule

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Re: FPGA Replay Board
« Reply #2078 on: December 14, 2012, 07:35:27 AM »
Quote from: Darrin;718993
Seems AmigaKit have sold out.

If you do find some in stock then make sure you get the 4MB upgrade.  Personally I'd just wait for the FPGA Aracde at this point.


I am not interested in mini mag, I was asking where can I buy the FPGA arcade?
 

Offline mikej

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Re: FPGA Replay Board
« Reply #2079 on: December 14, 2012, 09:41:10 AM »
Mail me at mikej at fpgaarcade dot com
There is a list. There will be website ordering from my site and I am talking to disties.
/MikeJ
 

Offline Methanoid

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Re: FPGA Replay Board
« Reply #2080 on: December 14, 2012, 12:37:34 PM »
Quote from: AmigaClassicRule;718918
Two more questions:
 
1) Can I hook it into my Commodore 1084s/TV? :D
 
2) Where can I order it, how much it would cost and is it available for sale now, can you direct me to the most sexiest cases for it that come close to Commodore style case if possible that you could recommend?


Try reading more than 1 or maybe 2 posts in thread before spamming it?
 
Quote from: AmigaClassicRule;718959
I want one too. where can I order one?


Try reading more than 1 or maybe 2 posts in thread before spamming it?

Quote from: AmigaClassicRule;718982
Yeah, but still where can I get the board?


Try reading more than 1 or maybe 2 posts in thread before spamming it?

Quote from: AmigaClassicRule;718995
I am not interested in mini mag, I was asking where can I buy the FPGA arcade?


Try reading more than 1 or maybe 2 posts in thread before spamming it?

Are you getting the idea yet? There is a long waiting list. Pretty sure I am 18 months or more in the queue but I could be wrong. Without developing some patience (which clearly from your 4 posts highlighted above you seem to struggle with), you might as well go find something else to buy.

Yes, FPGA Replay is very impressive and exciting but you need to Keep Calm and Learn to Wait!
 

Offline Everblue

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Re: FPGA Replay Board
« Reply #2081 on: December 14, 2012, 12:57:46 PM »
 

Offline Blinx123

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Re: FPGA Replay Board
« Reply #2082 on: December 14, 2012, 03:17:07 PM »
Well. AmigaClassicRule's posts are somewhat understandable.
It would be nice if all the important information in this thread would be compressed to the OP.

Furthermore, the FPGA Arcade homepage is severly lacking.

If it wasn't for mikej's (very much overdue) latest post, I'd probably still wait for a reply since the email address I wrote to is, apparently, not valid anymore.
Sam: \\"You crack me up little buddy\\"
Max: \\"I love you Sam\\"
 

Offline asymetrix

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Re: FPGA Replay Board
« Reply #2083 on: December 14, 2012, 03:33:18 PM »
@thread

what price are we talking here and average lead time ?
 

Offline mikej

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Re: FPGA Replay Board
« Reply #2084 on: December 14, 2012, 03:55:53 PM »
Quote from: Blinx123;719034
Well. AmigaClassicRule's posts are somewhat understandable.
It would be nice if all the important information in this thread would be compressed to the OP.

Furthermore, the FPGA Arcade homepage is severly lacking.

If it wasn't for mikej's (very much overdue) latest post, I'd probably still wait for a reply since the email address I wrote to is, apparently, not valid anymore.


Yes the website is out of date, the new one is under development.

http://fpgaarcade.com/dev/drupal/

but little content yet. I suppose I could work on that, or I could work on getting boards shipped ;)

Blinx123, I do not read this site very much and I respond when I can.
All email is working as far as I know. Mail me again and stick Blinx in the message so I can correlate with the email address.
 
/MikeJ