FPGA Replay Board

[AmigaClassicRule]

as much as i would like to see pci or pcie enabled upgrade to (68k) amigas id prefer the fpgaarcade (and the 060 daughterboard) to reach the consumer availability stage first asap, just before it turns into another vapor.
 
can we stop the feature creap demands for now, please?

You are missing the point. We are not demanding them now. We are giving him list of cool features to consider for the future. Right now I would also want it to come with 060 daughterboard and fpgaarcade at this point.
 
However, in the future whatever that be in years, we are simply inputing what we like as a cool feature. It is not like we have a control over what he decides. Also you could have worded your feeling more....say....politically -_-

[wawrzon]

Actually, I would prefer regular PCI . We have existing drivers, there are cheap PCI cards available for less than $10 and it's fast enough without a faster CPU.

if we take aros route we can have as much drivers as we want, there are tons of them available, and gallium brings its own share. unfortunatelly leading developers are extremally overloaded and there is not enough (competent) testers to push the development finally through. for instance arostcp stack is working on my a4k, but seems slower than miamidx under aros68k on same system. why? i cant tell. but someone with enough knowledge might find out.

i have now forwarded all the prometheus documentation i could gather to jason and toni and have jasons word he will look at the 68k pci after holidays again. but we have to stick to small goals, taken step by step.

[freqmax]

Amount of chip/fast RAM is just a matter of hardware description language (HDL) settings. And can be changed at will at boot. Perhaps while running too. The third option is RAM disc.

As for features. There is a slot that makes it possible to add various boards. YOU can even make your own if you wish. You don't have to rely on MikeJ for that. Also given a multi layer board every extra surface area costs premium.

One option for a daughter board may be an extra FPGA which could then implement hard to get MC68060. And non-existent AAA.

(and I agree fully with MikeJ last answer regarding PCI)

[mikej]

Correct, the 64MB of mainboard memory assignment can be changed by OSD config. This modifies settings in the FPGA hardware. Changes are updated on reset.

The Amiga core already contains enhanced RTG graphics and 16 bit audio (DAC is 24 bit). ChaosLord is correct in that even a legacy graphics card will offer better 2D performance, but this is something we can maybe address in the FPGA. The DDR2 memory for bursts should outperform old VRAM.

In theory you could have a daughterboard which has a number of PCI sockets directly connected to the main board, although I need to check the IO configuration.  3V3/universal cards only.
The main problem was the drivers, but you could keep the prometheus memory map and use their drivers.
Anyhow, I prefer to enhance the main card and not worry too much about legacy stuff for now.

/MikeJ

[Faranheit]

Hi All and Mike

I hope receiving this new firmware quickly for making some new video with it on my personnal web server HERE.

Thanks for your awesome work

Faranheit

[Hattig]

I do not mind it if it is static and not configurable (either) and you have to buy newer motherboard models for a Chip RAM upgrade or better yet, it have a maximum limit say to 32 GB of chip RAM or even 8 GB and you use a normal RAM DDR or whatever as a Chip RAM. Either way it is cool, but software configurable seems to me emulated (* shiver *)

The "software" in this case is a hardware description, not a conventional software language.  It's a re-implementation, not an emulation.

Also, is it me, or are all the Amiga.org images dead?

[Hattig]

I also believe it is a step down because it still use AGA as the latest custom chipset. We need something AT LEAST like AAA for a starter as a default build in to the motherboard custom chipset, with PCI slots to allow users to upgrade to video cards if they should need better and more powerful graphics ability. Imagine the awesome new games and apps that take advantage of the hardware if we at least add these two features!!!

IIRC the FPGA Arcade Amiga implementation provides a standard SVGA graphics card implementation alongside the AGA implementation, and in addition the AGA implementation is not held back by memory bandwidth issues, and can be clocked faster, and thus you shouldn't compare it with classic AGA. Indeed it can be coded to have a full 32-bit blitter I imagine, and multiple Paula audio blocks for more sound channels.

[psxphill]

The "software" in this case is a hardware description, not a conventional software language. It's a re-implementation, not an emulation.

The term emulation has been used for hardware that pretends to be other hardware before software based emulators became widespread.
 
Emulation is an intent, not a method.

[freqmax]

Sources to that claim?

[AmigaClassicRule]

IIRC the FPGA Arcade Amiga implementation provides a standard SVGA graphics card implementation alongside the AGA implementation, and in addition the AGA implementation is not held back by memory bandwidth issues, and can be clocked faster, and thus you shouldn't compare it with classic AGA. Indeed it can be coded to have a full 32-bit blitter I imagine, and multiple Paula audio blocks for more sound channels.

What you are saying that I could enjoy the pleasures of AGA on a TV without its limitation? That this new AGA is actually a new build in custom chipset not emulated and build from scratch and in fact could be treated as AGA+?

[Hattig]

What you are saying that I could enjoy the pleasures of AGA on a TV without its limitation? That this new AGA is actually a new build in custom chipset not emulated and build from scratch and in fact could be treated as AGA+?

I'm sure that there will be a cycle accurate version, but there is no reason (limits of the FPGA notwithstanding) that the core cannot also be extended to include more features and higher performance - "AGA+" as you mention.

I'm not sure how much work has been done in the FPGA Arcade cores along this line, except that there is a Picasso96 compatible basic graphics card implemented alongside the AGA chipset support.

[ChaosLord]

Correct, the 64MB of mainboard memory assignment can be changed by OSD config. This modifies settings in the FPGA hardware. Changes are updated on reset.

Ok so it sounds like we can have up to 64MB of chipram and use the daughterboard for 128MB fastram.

Can the RTG RAM share the chipram?  Or not?

Like could we have 64MB chipram + 64MB RTG ram using the same block of RAM on the mainboard?

I am just trying to work out what the capabilities are.

If they can't share the same mem then when I write my RTG game for Replay I would prob say "If u have the 060 daughterboard: Set ur chipram to 4MB and your RTG RAM to 60MB"

I am also curious as to how fast the 060 can copy data from its 128MB bank of fastram to the mainboard RAM.  Its makes a giant difference as to what I can do with Animation.  When the Natami work evaporated, it was really really slooow to copy from fastram to chipram with the CPU.  That part of the memory controller had not been optimized in any way.  So I am curious if ur memory controller suffers the same limitation/flaw.

My CPU blitting routines are over 140x faster than the AGA blitter on Real AGA Amigas.  But that only works if the CPU can copy data from Fastram to Chipram in a reasonable manner.  If you have a great memory controller then my routines will go even faster on Replay.  But if your memory controller is crippled then my speed could drop to 10x blitter speed which would be really completely useless for my hires hispeed animated gamez.

[kedawa]

Also, is it me, or are all the Amiga.org images dead?

Only avatar pictures are loading for me.

[AmigaClassicRule]

I'm sure that there will be a cycle accurate version, but there is no reason (limits of the FPGA notwithstanding) that the core cannot also be extended to include more features and higher performance - "AGA+" as you mention.
 
I'm not sure how much work has been done in the FPGA Arcade cores along this line, except that there is a Picasso96 compatible basic graphics card implemented alongside the AGA chipset support.

 
Two more questions:
 
1) Can I hook it into my Commodore 1084s/TV?
 
2) Where can I order it, how much it would cost and is it available for sale now, can you direct me to the most sexiest cases for it that come close to Commodore style case if possible that you could recommend?

[Blinx123]

Two more questions:
 
1) Can I hook it into my Commodore 1084s/TV?
 
2) Where can I order it, how much it would cost and is it available for sale now, can you direct me to the most sexiest cases for it that come close to Commodore style case if possible that you could recommend?

One word (or a collection of letters and numbers, rather):

X500!

[yaqube]

Ok so it sounds like we can have up to 64MB of chipram and use the daughterboard for 128MB fastram.

Can the RTG RAM share the chipram?  Or not?

As I've said once before our DDR memory controller is dual ported. One port is connected to the AGA chipset and the CPU while the other one is used exclusively by the RTG display module. It means the CPU can write to RTG memory with the same speed regardless of display mode.

The RTG RAM is allocated by our Picasso96 driver from CHIP RAM pool. So if we want to have 8MB graphics card we need to allocate 8MB of CHIP RAM. If we want 32MB RTG buffer we need to allocate 32MB of CHIP RAM.

Like could we have 64MB chipram + 64MB RTG ram using the same block of RAM on the mainboard?

No, because it's the same physical memory. In fact we can have maximum 50MB of CHIP RAM (2MB standard + 48MB extra). The rest of 64MB is used by ROM, SLOW and Z2 FAST RAM.

I am just trying to work out what the capabilities are.
If they can't share the same mem then when I write my RTG game for Replay I would prob say "If u have the 060 daughterboard: Set ur chipram to 4MB and your RTG RAM to 60MB"

Right now the Picasso96 driver decides how much RAM it wants to use so if you want to use RTG you should set the CHIP RAM config to maximum.

I am also curious as to how fast the 060 can copy data from its 128MB bank of fastram to the mainboard RAM.

The actual speed depends heavily on chipset activity. The CPU can write to the CHIP RAM as fast as 28 MB/s. With all DMA channels active (excluding the blitter) the speed drops to 14 MB/s. The RTG display uses another memory access port so no matter what the RTG display mode is the CPU can write to the RTG memory always with maximum speed.

Its makes a giant difference as to what I can do with Animation.  When the Natami work evaporated, it was really really slooow to copy from fastram to chipram with the CPU.  That part of the memory controller had not been optimized in any way.  So I am curious if ur memory controller suffers the same limitation/flaw.

Our memory controller can be optimized further. Right now it's faster than any other Amiga chipset.

My CPU blitting routines are over 140x faster than the AGA blitter on Real AGA Amigas.  But that only works if the CPU can copy data from Fastram to Chipram in a reasonable manner.  If you have a great memory controller then my routines will go even faster on Replay.  But if your memory controller is crippled then my speed could drop to 10x blitter speed which would be really completely useless for my hires hispeed animated gamez.

Our CHIP RAM controller is two times faster than in the fastest Amiga. It means the blitter can move data at least twice as fast. The difference is higher when more bitplanes are displayed.

For compatibility reasons the AGA blitter is 16-bit like its real counterpart. But I have implemented another 32-bit blitter to accelerate RTG operations. It's much faster.