FPGA Replay Board

[Everblue]

Just wondering.... is it able to set the Replay FPGA to output at 1080p reslution and then multiply the pixel output of the picture to the maximum resolution that would fit in the 1080p resolution? Extra pixels would be just black of course (border around the picture).

Not sure if I was clear

[psxphill]

I cannot fit a HDMI connector due to licensing issues, and I can't buy (legally at least) the chips which support HDMI as they have HDCP support - and you need to be a member of the cartel to use them. Future hardware is likely to support display port instead.

So you can go into a shop and buy them, but you can't sell something with one fitted?
 
http://www.maplin.co.uk/hdmi-connectors-217844

[freqmax]

@psxphill, Use chip, connector, or pcb-layout-option that supports HDMI and the media-maffia sues you.
(not sure about the pcb-pad option route! thoe)

However an FPGA that supports the electrical interface of HDMI (Xilinx rocketport?) might be a way to deal with it. The hardware will be ok. And the producer isn't (hopefully) liable for what users do with it.

The problem with DisplayPort is the amount of video displays that supports it. Especially those fairly priced.

[girv73]

This is perhaps a little premature, but are there any firm plans for a second production run?

[mikej]

yes, as soon as the first batch have been allocated.
/Mike

[espskog]

That is cool. You probably have a feeling how many Replay board you can send (based on how much feedback you've received and pre-orders etc). Do you know if there are plan to have third party re-sellers aswell ? I think that now that the electronics is more or less done, the big thing is to make this Replay board into a kick-ass product (even better than it is now...if possible) by expanding the software side of it.

Have you had some talks with other Arcade  dudes to use the Replay board inside pre-made Arcade boxes ?


I hope you can sell heaps of the board and make big bucks from it. That would be very very awesome. I for sure hope that the Amiga community can help out by buying as many boards as possible

It's a very natural upgrade from the current MInimig owners to go to the Replay board. It's the closest thing you can get to go from upgrading from A500 to A1200 :-)...only, it's WAY cooler and better

[billt]

The problem with DisplayPort is the amount of video displays that supports it. Especially those fairly priced.

What about display port output through displayport->hdmi adapter? Does the chip need to support hdmi for such adapters to work, or does the adapter do everything itself and the chip is ignorant of hdmi?

Though the hdmi cartel is suing people that make displayport->hdmi cables, licsinsing doe snto allow adapter combined into cable, only allows a dongle with separate cable. Dumb, but that's what cartels are for...

[Heiroglyph]

We went through HDMI licensing for a few of our products.  It's a severe pain to deal with but we had to have it.

Copy protection wasn't even an issue since we are outputting only unprotected video.  The issue was being compliant with the signal spec and proper detection and communication with attached devices, both video and audio.

I'm not sure that your board could actually qualify since it's intended to be user reprogramable.  They are very strict on every little detail and the user could easily make it non-compliant.

IMHO it would just drive up the price of FPGA Replay for very little benefit.

[psxphill]

The problem with DisplayPort is the amount of video displays that supports it. Especially those fairly priced.

As display port has basically bombed, they might not want to rock the boat but:
 
DisplayPort is currently royalty free, while the HDMI royalty is 4 cents per device and has an annual fee of $10,000 for high volume manufacturers.[26] HDMI Licensing LLC claims that, like HDMI, the DisplayPort specification allows for compensation from implementers to unspecified rights holders.[27]
 
I guess the problem actually comes from trademarks:
 
"Prior to mass producing or distributing any Licensed Product or component that claims compliance with the HDMI Specification (or allowing someone else to do such activities), each Adopter must test a representative sample for HDMI compliance"
 
So in theory if you don't claim it's compatible with the HDMI specification then you don't need to test it. There must be ways round it, because from the way it's written then even saying it's compliant with HDMI using a DVI to HDMI adapter would be a problem.
 
edit... It looks like DisplayPort to HDMI cables are under fire.... http://www.macrumors.com/2011/07/08/minidisplay-port-to-hdmi-cables-unlicensed-and-cannot-be-sold/, hopefully someone will sue hdmi and sort out the mess.

[freqmax]

I hope China FL00DS the market with DisplayPort -> HDMI adapters. Intellectual property doesn't score high in that county I read. That is they have to catch the packets in the customs because IP-suing isn't going anywhere in that country.

[joemango]

How about MHL (Mobile High-definition Link) through microUSB?  My EVO 3D cellphone has it. They (legally) sell adapters that output HDMI 1080p/7.1 plus the spec provides power from the display (or adapter).  It uses a microUSB 4-wire port to do all that.  I suppose there's a chip to buy but you don't have to put HDMI compliance on the box.  Their website seems to have completely forgotten the acronym HDMI and it seems like cost of entry is cheap(er).  Perhaps they don't want to pay the cartel.

MikeJ, check this link out: http://www.mhlconsortium.org/adopters/adopter_information.aspx

...Although I'm sure you're familiar with the spec already.  Looks like they'd like to get some more little gadgets on board that hook up to TV sets via MHL.  In the application form they have a check box for "Home game console" which I think is what you should tick  

Can't wait.  Buona fortuna!

[psxphill]

...Although I'm sure you're familiar with the spec already. Looks like they'd like to get some more little gadgets on board that hook up to TV sets via MHL. In the application form they have a check box for "Home game console" which I think is what you should tick

Wow, a standard that makes sense. I didn't see that coming.
 
http://www.engineeringtv.com/video/MHL-Consortium-HD-interface;CES-2011

[freqmax]

MHL might be workable IF:
 * MHL to HDMI adapters are cheap enough (remember DVI is very straightforward!)
 * MHL is open and free
 * Chips implementing the TMDS interface can be bought in <100 qty for a fair price.

The alternative is to have an option board that turns DVI + S/P-dif or I2S etc.. into a combined HDMI signal. Ofcourse only the schematic, pcb layout, component list can be shared officially.


As for the 68060 additional board. I hope it will be fitted with a connector to make it possible to stack additional cards. Ie base fpga arcade + addon 68060 board + addon fpga booster + other..

[joemango]

MHL might be workable IF:
 * MHL to HDMI adapters are cheap enough (remember DVI is very straightforward!)
 * MHL is open and free
 * Chips implementing the TMDS interface can be bought in <100 qty for a fair price.

- I paid $40 retail for my MHL MicroUSB>HDMI adapter.  They're $20 on Amazon.
- MHL doesn't look so open or free. Maybe just cheaper.  You have to pay $100 just to look at the draft specs.  But I don't know how much it costs to actually implement it or license it.  It looks like there's a deal to be struck there.
- The chips are always cheap. The royalties are what you have to worry about.

The MHL spec calls for 1080p + 7.1 plus inbound power and remote control abilities over a standard USB cable..  Eventually it will be available on a lot of TV sets as the connectors are everywhere and cheap (unlike HDMI), being bog standard USB plugs.  More and more people use smartphones, and the CTIA (cell phone cartel) set the standard for all new cell phones (Except a certain fruity phone who shall remain iNameless) to have a microUSB 2.0 port for power and sync to make interconnection with peripherals easier.  So if all cell phones have that connection, make a spec that will use it and poof... no barrier to entry.  The phone manufacturer doesn't have to put a special connector on their already crowded device (driving build costs up, a no-no), and they get to have HD Video out.

As for the 68060 additional board. I hope it will be fitted with a connector to make it possible to stack additional cards. Ie base fpga arcade + addon 68060 board + addon fpga booster + other..

MMMM stacking expansion boards... The only thing that would make that more delicious would be some cheese on top.  And maybe some chocolate.

SO how long until someone builds a mediator-type bus board for the Arcade Replay?

You have no idea what you've started Mike

[espskog]

DVI does the job just as well. We feed audio separately instead and that should be good enough We are used to compromises from the Commodore world, so HDMI or not...we don't need no stinkin' HDMI

Yet, having all in one single cable is of course very nice, but I would gues that it's possible to get a DVI2HDMI adapter which ALSO has a little jack-plug on it so you can feed the adaper with audio that is then carried on thru the hdmi cable to the TV.

[psxphill]

Yet, having all in one single cable is of course very nice, but I would gues that it's possible to get a DVI2HDMI adapter which ALSO has a little jack-plug on it so you can feed the adaper with audio that is then carried on thru the hdmi cable to the TV.

I don't think it's that easy as hdmi uses digital audio & the person that makes the cable will have to pay the license fee.
 
I'm sure not paying this much for it.
 
http://www.futureshop.co.uk/atlona-dvi-with-analogdigital-audio-to-hdmi-converter-and-embedder-p-4338.html
 
I don't think my tv can take analogue audio when it's displaying hdmi. So it is a bit of a compromise.