Does Hyperion own the rights to OS 3.1, 3.5, 3.9?

[commodorejohn]

Sure, MorphOS is a proprietary OS, but there are certainly no Amiga trade marks, no Amiga sources or no other Amiga IP whatsoever involved in MorphOS.

So? It's not tied to this stupid rights-fight, but it's still tied to one rights-holder, so it's entirely possible for it to get into this kind of trouble. And it's still incompatible with non-PPC Amigas, which means people like me, with neither the money nor the inclination to move into the PPC country club or slap a boing-ball sticker on a Macintosh and pretend it's an Amiga, are shit out of luck.

[tone007]

And it's still incompatible with non-PPC Amigas, which means people like me, with neither the money nor the inclination to move into the PPC country club or slap a boing-ball sticker on a Macintosh and pretend it's an Amiga, are shit out of luck.

I'd say you're in luck that it's not compatible.  Trying to run such an "NG" Amiga OS on an '030 might just drive you out the window.  I've watched web pages take over a full minute to load on an '030, and that's running OS 3.1!

..and if you're not into playing pretend, that whole blue butterfly thing just won't work for you.

[commodorejohn]

This is true, and it would be silly to act like even careful coding will bring an 030 box up to the computing power of a modern x86 machine (although the way Microsoft keeps amping up their minimum OS specs, you never know :rolleyes:) Still, I don't like and frankly don't accept the notion that 68k machines are a dead-end and either PPC/MorphOS or x86/AROS are the one true "new future" of the Amiga. (I'm not going to begrudge those systems their development, although it  still baffles me how certain people can claim that being free of the  Amiga-rights Gordian knot is as good as being free software, but I  don't like the idea that 68k machines should just be left by the wayside  to rust :|)

You can still do a lot with a 20-30MHz machine (to say nothing of the 150MHz NatAmi's claiming to achieve,) a programmer-friendly CPU like the 680x0, and a simple, open OS like the Kickstart/AmigaDOS combo. I'll never be playing Flash-based streaming video on my 2500, but that doesn't mean there's not room for an improved web browser, a more intuitive and integrated file manager than Workbench, or new games that don't require a PPC and AGA to run, and I wish more people realized that. At least AROS's open Kickstart replacement should provide some solid groundwork for any such future efforts.

[the_leander]

Still, I don't like and frankly don't accept the notion that 68k machines are a dead-end

Well, clearly they are. The arch, whilst successful and inspirational to other later arches (dragonball and coldfire), is a dead end.

 and either PPC/MorphOS or x86/AROS are the one true "new future" of the Amiga.

I'm going to be blunt about this. Sit down, take a deep breath: Amiga has no future. PPC is as much a dead end arch (as far as the desktop goes) as 68k is. AROS will probably carry on thanks to it being OSS, but really, it's time as anything other than a hobby machine for people who grew up with it and those handful with a retro fetish is long gone.

but I  don't like the idea that 68k machines should just be left by the wayside  to rust

Who said they should? But perhaps rather than trying to break out "new future" Amigas, we should enjoy using them in the same way people enjoy classic cars.

a more intuitive and integrated file manager than Workbench

Opus Magellen 2, for when you absolutely positively have to file every m**********r on the drive, accept no substitute.

[commodorejohn]

I'm going to be blunt about this. Sit down, take a deep breath: Amiga has no future. PPC is as much a dead end arch (as far as the desktop goes) as 68k is. AROS will probably carry on thanks to it being OSS, but really, it's time as anything other than a hobby machine for people who grew up with it and those handful with a retro fetish is long gone.

I wasn't intending to imply otherwise. Barring some sort of divine intervention, it's never going to become a mainstream computing platform, but on the other hand, just because it's a "hobby machine" doesn't mean that new development efforts for it aren't worthwhile. I think there has to be some middle ground between a strictly preservationist "classic car" view and the "we'll just slap an Amiga nameplate on any computer hardware we can get" approach.

(But should some sort of divine intervention appear, you bet I'll be at the forefront of the new revolution After all, even Linux started off as a "hobby project" of one Swede teaching himself assembler...)

[tone007]

After all, even Linux started off as a "hobby project" of one Swede teaching himself assembler...)

Ooo, that's gonna piss the Finns off.

[the_leander]

I wasn't intending to imply otherwise. Barring some sort of divine intervention, it's never going to become a mainstream computing platform, but on the other hand, just because it's a "hobby machine" doesn't mean that new development efforts for it aren't worthwhile. I think there has to be some middle ground between a strictly preservationist "classic car" view and the "we'll just slap an Amiga nameplate on any computer hardware we can get" approach.

I'm not advocating a "strict preservationist" view. Classic cars look great in museums but even better on the open road. There is absolutely nothing stopping anyone writing new software for the classics nor would I for a second suggest that.

I think in line with that thinking, the MinimigAGA is a great piece of work to show to younger folks who never got to play with Amiga the first time around to get a taste of what the old kit was like, but without the fragility that comes with it being old kit.

I've made my views on AmigaNG clear a couple of times recently, so I see no need to repeat them.

@Tone007

Nice catch :roflmao:

[commodorejohn]

Ooo, that's gonna piss the Finns off.

Damnation! I knew I should have looked it up. I'm afraid that, growing up in northern Minnesota, the different Scandinavians groups all tend to run together in my mind :/

I think in line with that thinking, the  MinimigAGA is a great piece of work to show to younger folks who never  got to play with Amiga the first time around to get a taste of what the  old kit was like, but without the fragility that comes with it being old  kit.

Huh, and that's kind of exactly what I was saying, so I guess I misunderstood what you were saying. Well, wouldn't be my first time debating with someone over an issue we actually agree on :rolleyes:

[Franko]

I'm going to be blunt about this. Sit down, take a deep breath: Amiga has no future. PPC is as much a dead end arch (as far as the desktop goes) as 68k is. AROS will probably carry on thanks to it being OSS, but really, it's time as anything other than a hobby machine for people who grew up with it and those handful with a retro fetish is long gone.

Who said they should? But perhaps rather than trying to break out "new future" Amigas, we should enjoy using them in the same way people enjoy classic cars.

In know you say that perhaps we should enjoy our Amigas the way people enjoy classic cars,which up to a point is fair comment, but in the same breath you say the Amiga has no future. If the Amiga has no future then why do Hyperion continue to develop OS 4.X, or A-eon develop the X1000, or why is the Natami or the Minimig still being developed, not to mention Aros and all the other people working on other projects continue to do so.

For the simple reason no matter what the size of the user base the Amiga is far from dead and will continue in one form or another for many years to come. If you have such a pessimistic  outlook on the Amiga why do you bother with the Amiga at all.

Since Commodore went belly up in 94 and all the crap that has happened in the years since, the Amiga community and those still developing in one way or another for it have proven all those pessimists wrong. There can't be many other computer systems (if any) that so long after the last machine rolled of the production line still has folk developing for it and a never ending enthusiasm for it such as the Amiga community has shown.

I just find it difficult to understand why someone like yourself who's past has shown such a great passion for the Amiga feels now that the Amiga has no future at all...

[lsmart]

If the Amiga has no future then why do Hyperion continue to develop OS 4.X, or A-eon develop the X1000, or why is the Natami or the Minimig still being developed, not to mention Aros and all the other people working on other projects continue to do so.

You forgot to mention MorphOS. The Amiga had no future when Commodore died. Escom & Co were but shadows of a greater past. But since the Amiga has been dead for about 15 years there is absolutely no reason to give up now. Maybe computing isn´t that much about performance or market-share anymore. While the cool kids move to phones and tablets and have all their data in the cloud, there may be a time of diversity on the PC market again.

[tone007]

I just find it difficult to understand why someone like yourself who's past has shown such a great passion for the Amiga feels now that the Amiga has no future at all...

Everything has a future, just some futures are brighter than others.

I look at it in terms of user base growth (or shrinkage) myself.  I can't honestly say I see the NG Amiga user base growing significantly given the current hardware offerings.  Some people bought SAMs when they were new and only slightly overpriced (compared to the X1000.)  They had their taste of OS 4.1, and maybe some will be back for more, but I'd bet many of them will think twice (or just laugh) before spending what the X1000 is supposed to cost.

I personally got a bargain-basement AmigaOne and used it for a few weeks, and I can safely say my OS4.1 curiosity is satisfied and does not require further hardware.

[the_leander]

*sigh*, fine I'll bite.

In know you say that perhaps we should enjoy our Amigas the way people enjoy classic cars,which up to a point is fair comment, but in the same breath you say the Amiga has no future.

It doesn't. The legal situation surrounding Amiga has effectively killed it.

If the Amiga has no future then why do Hyperion continue to develop OS 4.X,

You don't want me to answer that.

 or A-eon develop the X1000,

Vanity. (By Trevor's own admission I should add)

 or why is the Natami or the Minimig still being developed,

Same reason you can buy kit car versions of AC- Cobras and a few select other cars. Some people want to taste what it was like to drive those old cars but don't want to futz around with having an older car. Apply the same reasoning to AROS as well

If you have such a pessimistic  outlook on the Amiga why do you bother with the Amiga at all.

The platform may well be dead. But that doesn't stop me enjoying classic games.

Since Commodore went belly up in 94 and all the crap that has happened in the years since, the Amiga community and those still developing in one way or another for it have proven all those pessimists wrong.

Not really, the realists said that the Amiga is dead and that it wasn't coming back. They were correct. There have been a couple of attempts to kickstart it, the last one being the AmigaNG concept. Quite frankly the way it was handled by the principles all it managed to do was cause a war and rip off a whole bunch of people.

There can't be many other computer systems (if any) that so long after the last machine rolled of the production line still has folk developing for it and a never ending enthusiasm for it such as the Amiga community has shown.

Yeah, except practically every other home computer out there. Have you seen the C= community? It's several orders of magnitude larger than the Amigas and always has been. They however don't have all the legal shite or people at it's head ripping into other heads within the community claiming that theirs is the one true path and using the zealots as shock troops to deliver the message.

As for never ending enthusiasm. Perhaps if the community had been a little more pragmatic and level headed about things, Amiga.Inc wouldn't have been able to scam us and the Hyperion/MorphOS war that tore the heart out of us would have resulted in the community kicking the ego trippers asses as a point of principle. Oh yes, I went there.

I just find it difficult to understand why someone like yourself who's past has shown such a great passion for the Amiga feels now that the Amiga has no future at all...

I know you do, and perhaps I'm not explaining it right. But it doesn't change the fact that the Amiga is dead. Amiga as a platform being dead doesn't stop me from enjoying some of the games I grew up with, sharing my knowledge with people wanting to enjoy that too.

[Plaz]

by the 040 they were so great that specific libraries had to be included in AmigaOS to deal with the compatibility issues.

If coldfire could have been solved that easily, it already would have been. Unfortunately it ran a bit deeper.

Plaz

[the_leander]

If coldfire could have been solved that easily, it already would have been. Unfortunately it ran a bit deeper.

Who said it was easy? Regardless - Coldfire has been shown to work already. See the link I gave. Dragon was actually demonstrated live at that Amiga meeting.

[Plaz]

Amigas, we should enjoy using them in the same way people enjoy classic cars.

As one who owns Amigas and is restoring a classic car, I heartily agree. However a similar comparison can be drawn. As I restore my car, I'm not going to be using 40-50 year old technology to rebuild the brakes, fuel system, suspension, electrical, transmission.... most of us in the car hobby are using the latest tech to improve reliability, handling and saftey. What's under the hood won't be bone factory stock, but it will look and feel classic and will be better than original by miles. Classic Amigans hope for the same on their systems

Plaz

[Plaz]

Who said it was easy? Regardless - Coldfire has been shown to work already. See the link I gave. Dragon was actually demonstrated live at that Amiga meeting.

I'd have to guess it was demonstrated on a cafefully selected set of task to avoid known problems. It is too bad that a card wasn't at least released as a dev unit so some of us could have played around and mapped out the good and bad of it all.

Plaz