Does Hyperion own the rights to OS 3.1, 3.5, 3.9?

[fishy_fiz]

Uh, "native x86 port" is kind of missing the point, when the Amiga has never used x86 in any form. I mean, again, good for them, but that doesn't help anybody with an Amiga. The Amiga 68k port is good news, though; even for those of us not particularily interested in AROS, an open Kickstart would be a huge step towards getting past this stupid corporate pissing contest.

Actually, AROS runs on x86, x86_64 and ppc (sam440ep and efika) natitvely in addition to the various hosted flavors. Also, just because an architecture isnt binary compatible doesnt mean os3.x (or any amiga os system) cant benefit from AROS, it can, and has. The 68k port/kickstart replacement looks very cool though as well and I was pleasantly surprised to see Toni Wilan now working on AROS in lou of this.... AROS Devl-ML has been pretty active in the 68k regards lately, interesting reading

[Heiroglyph]

It isn't binary compatible yet.

Once we can start mixing and matching Aros and OS3.x it will get very interesting.

[takemehomegrandma]

You know, it would be really nice to just clean-room reimplement the whole damn thing and sidestep this entire disgraceful corporate toddler fight. Maybe I'm just talking crazy talk, but it doesn't seem like it'd be that hard; the documentation in the ROM Kernel Reference Manual, coupled with the fact that the whole OS is based around application reuse of what other OSes would consider to be OS-internal structures and code, gives a remarkably clear window into how the system works without even needing to get into disassemblies of Kickstart binaries.

Clean-room reimplementation? Well, then MorphOS is exactly what you are asking for!

[kolla]

@takemehomegrandma

No it isn't, replacing one locked up system with another locked up system is not what is being asked for.

[commodorejohn]

Clean-room reimplementation? Well, then MorphOS is exactly what you are asking for!

Uh, well, I was thinking more of an open-source effort so that we could get away from this stupid "who's allowed to use the software" bitchfest. Having a proprietary third-party OS (which, emulation aside, isn't even for 68k Amigas) that's a reimplementation of a proprietary first-party OS isn't a step forward so much as a step sideways.

[cha05e90]

Clean-room reimplementation? Well, then MorphOS is exactly what you are asking for!:)

Yep, technically correct - but they want "open sources". But - as far as I understood - AROS has the same approach (minus 68k compability), hasn't it?

[fishy_fiz]

It isn't binary compatible yet.

Once we can start mixing and matching Aros and OS3.x it will get very interesting.

Actually, I was referring the the x86 version when I say not binary compatible. 68k AROS port isn't even finished yet so it's a bit premature to decide how compatible it is or isnt.

[takemehomegrandma]

Uh, well, I was thinking more of an open-source effort so that we could get away from this stupid "who's allowed to use the software" bitchfest. Having a proprietary third-party OS (which, emulation aside, isn't even for 68k Amigas) that's a reimplementation of a proprietary first-party OS isn't a step forward so much as a step sideways.

OK, so your point was merely yet another plea for open source, your talk about "clean-room reimplementation" made me miss that...

However, MorphOS is completely free from all Amiga sources, trade marks and other IP BS, and all problems relating to that! It's a complete clean-room reimplementation of Amiga OS 3.1 (with a truckload of new features added to that) so nobody from Amiga Inc (or anyone unknown from the past suddenly appearing with a fresh law suit) can demand a handing over of the sources, a piece of the pie, or power over decision making, hence The MorphOS Team are in a much better position than Hyperion. In fact, I don't envy Hyperion at all, they are in a terrible position. But they made their own bed, and they certainly won't get any sympathies from me.

And frankly, having much better Amiga compatibility, more features, better specs, better performance, and all the big Amiga standards integrated into the OS, than both OS4 and AROS is certainly much more important to me than open sources. But I guess our priorities are different...

MorphOS might be a step sideways (big enough to step out of Amiga Inc's zone of control), but then followed by a giant leap forward!

[takemehomegrandma]

Yep, technically correct - but they want "open sources".

Yes I got that now!

But why start all over with a clean slate, making an "AROS 2", when there is already an "AROS 1" you could work with?

AROS has been here even longer than MorphOS, but look how "far" it got in comparison. I don't think open source is the answer if you want real progress in the tiny Amiga community. And whatever momentum AROS has, an "AROS 2" effort would have only a fraction of that. It wouldn't go anywhere.

But - as far as I understood - AROS has the same approach (minus 68k compability), hasn't it?

Well, AROS is certainly a clean-room reimplementation, but AFAIK its currently not binary compatible (even if recompiled in its current state for 68k). Or am I wrong in this?

[Fats]

Yes I got that now!
Well, AROS is certainly a clean-room reimplementation, but AFAIK its currently not binary compatible (even if recompiled in its current state for 68k). Or am I wrong in this?

Yes, but I don't see why it is so important that AROS is not binary compatible at this very moment. People are hard at work to get this going. AFAWK no technical reasons are there why we can't get it going; binary compatibility has always been a serious consideration when technical decisions about AROS have been made. This has even lead to some people start the AnubisOS project because they found that this binary compatibility was holding AROS back.

greets,
Staf.

[fishy_fiz]

Well, AROS is certainly a clean-room reimplementation, but AFAIK its currently not binary compatible (even if recompiled in its current state for 68k). Or am I wrong in this?

I cant answer that question accurately (not sure many can), but work on kickstart replacement/68k aros has been powering forward lately,.... the dev-ml has had some interesting reading. If Im not mistaken the bounty ends sometime in December, so it can't be too long until we all find the answer to that question :-) Im sure initially 68k binary compatibilty will be low at best, but given some time it should improve. A nice side effect from this for AROS is that it should help improve api compatibility as well for other architectures. Each to thier own and whatnot, but personally Im quite excited about what the 68k aros/kickstart replacement can bring to the table for not only AROS, but amiga in general.

[kolla]

However, MorphOS is completely free from all Amiga sources, trade marks and other IP BS, and all problems relating to that

No it isn't, it is filled with trade marks and other IP BS, and has all the problems relating to that. Who cares if it doesn't have Amiga sources in it, it' just as much out of reach as AmigaOS is, so it really doesn't make one bit of difference.

But, thanks again for living up to my expectations of you as a MorphOS zealot.

[takemehomegrandma]

No it isn't, it is filled with trade marks and other IP BS, and has all the problems relating to that. Who cares if it doesn't have Amiga sources in it, it' just as much our of reach as AmigaOS is, so it really doesn't make one bit of difference.

But, thanks again for living up to my expectations of you as a MorphOS zealot.

Sure, MorphOS is a proprietary OS, but there are certainly no Amiga trade marks, no Amiga sources or no other Amiga IP whatsoever involved in MorphOS.

MorphOS will be completely unaffected when Pluritas auctions off the Amiga IP.

OS4 won't be unaffected, due to the facts I mentioned earlier in this thread.

AROS will not be affected either, but it will also still not be close to be as usable as neither of the two others. MorphOS is Amiga done right! AROS may be a nice hobby for the involved developers, but from a users point of view, it's stumbling in MorphOS footsteps.

Call me "zealot" as much as you like if that makes you feel better; It won't change a thing though!

[kolla]

So? Are you dense or something?

As I see it, you jump to any occation to gloat about how brilliant you think MorphOS is, but you know what? We understood that _years_ ago. You sig already says it. All the stuff you post is completely redundant, really.

*plonk*

[the_leander]

Oh yes, it will work. But eventually it will run into a bit of 1.x-3.x OS or legacy game code with one of these miss interpeded op codes and crash something. We should I suppose distinguish "working" from "completely stable" then.

Plaz

And this is different to the situation faced anyone who has ever owned an 020+ amiga how, exactly? With each successive update of the 68k line, there has been differences, by the 040 they were so great that specific libraries had to be included in AmigaOS to deal with the compatibility issues.

[commodorejohn]

Sure, MorphOS is a proprietary OS, but there are certainly no Amiga trade marks, no Amiga sources or no other Amiga IP whatsoever involved in MorphOS.

So? It's not tied to this stupid rights-fight, but it's still tied to one rights-holder, so it's entirely possible for it to get into this kind of trouble. And it's still incompatible with non-PPC Amigas, which means people like me, with neither the money nor the inclination to move into the PPC country club or slap a boing-ball sticker on a Macintosh and pretend it's an Amiga, are shit out of luck.