Does Hyperion own the rights to OS 3.1, 3.5, 3.9?

[wawrzon]

@cha05e90: at least you are free to choose your best fit from a variety. not to speak of being left dependent on mercy of few spare time developers furtherly limited in what they do by a probably questionable buisness decisions. see olsen.

[the_leander]

It's possible to trap 68K instructions that are invalid for coldfire and "reroute" them. Using this trick make the two about 99.8% compatible. Trouble is these other instructions are not invalid, can't be trapped and will cash Amiga code because of the way they operate.

Coldfire has been demonstrated to work (I remember someone putting a video of the prototype being demoed here on AO). The problem is that with all the bits in place to make the Coldfire fully 68k compatible. It was, even  at several hundred mhz, little quicker than an 040.

--edit--

Found the thread, here. The thumbnails work, but the links to the vids are long gone, sorry

These days I'm thinking porting one of the Amiga like OS's to cheap dual core 1GHZ ARM processors would be a fun project. Picture this... Core_1 doing JIT recompiling and feeding Core_2 that's running a "softcore 68K" emulation. Piece of cake, I should have all that done in what.... two weeks?  

Tbh given the relative performance of ARM processors, even just a single core A9 and have it run a full 68k jit would probably be quite a bit quicker than using any Coldfire.

[nicholas]

Coldfire has been demonstrated to work (I remember someone putting a video of the prototype being demoed here on AO). The problem is that with all the bits in place to make the Coldfire fully 68k compatible. It was, even  at several hundred mhz, little quicker than an 040.



Tbh given the relative performance of ARM processors, even just a single core A9 and have it run a full 68k jit would probably be quite a bit quicker than using any Coldfire.

UAE on a QSD 8250 runs TBL/Starstruck perfectly.

[orb85750]

The ambiguity is that there is no factual proof that the "full" IP was transferred to Amiga inc. There are only claims made by Amiga Inc (which of course are biased, being the interested party).

It would seem very bizarre if Gateway (or someone else along the line) transferred the IP with the *exception* of the OS.  That's an extraordinary claim -- requires extraordinary proof.  Anyone?

[nicholas]

It would seem very bizarre if Gateway (or someone else along the line) transferred the IP with the *exception* of the OS.  That's an extraordinary claim -- requires extraordinary proof.  Anyone?

Is there any verifiable proof that Gateway transferred any IP at all to McEwen or his various shell companies?

[orb85750]

Is there any verifiable proof that Gateway transferred any IP at all to McEwen or his various shell companies?

Well, you might as well have asked: Is there any *proof* that the IP was transferred to Gateway in the first place?  Of course the documents exist.  Do you expect to find all such legal business documents on the internet?

So Gateway decided to hold onto the Amiga OS and kept it a secret?  What are you saying?

[nicholas]

Well, you might as well have asked: Is there any *proof* that the IP was transferred to Gateway in the first place?  Of course the documents exist.  Do you expect to find all such legal business documents on the internet?

So Gateway decided to hold onto the Amiga OS and kept it a secret?  What are you saying?

I'm not saying anything, I'm asking a question.

Put if you really want my opinion then I will say that McEwen has made many claims over the years and most have turned out to be lies.

[the_leander]

Well, you might as well have asked: Is there any *proof* that the IP was transferred to Gateway in the first place?  Of course the documents exist.  Do you expect to find all such legal business documents on the internet?

Isn't that more or less what you've demanded of others here though?

So Gateway decided to hold onto the Amiga OS and kept it a secret?  What are you saying?

The question is which bits went where. The court docs state that Amiga.inc never had the 3.5/9 sources and that Haage and Partner refused to hand over their work (which apparently hadn't been paid for), so Hyperion had to go through Olaf rather than AI to get the 3.1 sources and work from there because they didn't apparently have them either.

[orb85750]

Isn't that more or less what you've demanded of others here though?

No, the implication is that Amiga Inc. has been fooling the entire community for years, including those that are paying them for OS?  Such views are the ones that need to be backed with something other than opinion and speculation that the IP was not transferred to them along with the trademarks, etc.

[the_leander]

Isn't that more or less what you've demanded of others here though?

No, the implication is that Amiga Inc. has been fooling the entire community for years, including those that are paying them for OS?  Such views are the ones that need to be backed with something other than opinion and speculation that the IP was not transferred to them along with the trademarks, etc.

Because there totally isn't precedent for that sort of thing happening within the alt OS community.

Zeta

Not to mention the T shirt scam and the claims for the better part of a year that OS4 was "on schedule and rocking"... McEwen has a very very dicey relationship with the truth and honesty.

The question is though, if McEwen had the IP as well as the trademark, why didn't they have the sourcecode? The court docs in the battle between hyperion and Amiga.inc show that Hyperion had to go to Olaf Barthal for the sourcecode for 3.1.

[Gulliver]

No, the implication is that Amiga Inc. has been fooling the entire community for years, including those that are paying them for OS?  Such views are the ones that need to be backed with something other than opinion and speculation that the IP was not transferred to them along with the trademarks, etc.

Well, it is a prooved fact that Amiga Inc. has been fooling the entire community. Do you at least know about the Coupon/T-shirt scam they made?
More than two hundred Amiga users were robbed, in that epic scheme designed exclusively by Amiga Inc.
Just ask, many of them are still probably lurking in Amiga forums, and hopefully wont feel embarrassed enough to step in, and tell you how they were scammed by Amiga Inc when they thought they were doing something good for the future of the Amiga.

[orb85750]

Guys, those that need the OS for their current projects are being very, very careful to do so legally without stealing Amiga Inc IP.  A bunch of gullible fools?  I think not.  Yes, McEwen has quite a history of dishonesty, but that's beside the point.  T-shirts, hockey stadium, etc. are quite funny, but the craziest thing of all would be if Amiga Inc doesn't actually own the IP.  That would dwarf everything else.  Anything is possible in the world of Amiga, but c'mon. :-)

[the_leander]

Guys, those that need the OS for their current projects are being very, very careful to do so legally without stealing Amiga Inc IP.  A bunch of gullible fools?  I think not.

I'm sorry, have you even bothered to check out the litany of documented abuse of IP by amiga companies? They have been screwing each other over for the better part of a decade. Hell it's why half of the splits came about - companies all badmouthing each other and using their fanbase as foot soldiers in a PR war.

Lets start with a recent example: Elbox and their ripping off of the guy who wrote the Posieden USB stack.

  Yes, McEwen has quite a history of dishonesty, but that's beside the point.  T-shirts, hockey stadium, etc. are quite funny

You clearly have a very unusual definition of the term "funny".

, but the craziest thing of all would be if Amiga Inc doesn't actually own the IP.  

The claim is that he licensed it from Gateway, not that he owns it. Now, if you're paying millions for the rights to use a name or a given OS, would it not occur to you to, oh I don't know, ask for a copy of the source code?

That would dwarf everything else.  Anything is possible in the world of Amiga, but c'mon. :-)

No I'm pretty certain the death of commodore would still top it. But it'd certainly come a close second.

[Gulliver]

Guys, those that need the OS for their current projects are being very, very careful to do so legally without stealing Amiga Inc IP.  A bunch of gullible fools?  I think not.  Yes, McEwen has quite a history of dishonesty, but that's beside the point.  T-shirts, hockey stadium, etc. are quite funny, but the craziest thing of all would be if Amiga Inc doesn't actually own the IP.  That would dwarf everything else.  Anything is possible in the world of Amiga, but c'mon. :-)

I see your point, but then see it this way:

Does anyone know with certainty who owns the, lets call it original AmigaOS?
No, not really. But then, there is a company that is named Amiga Inc. that is the only one that is claiming that IP is theirs, and is even considering granting some licenses for a fee.
 
So, in the worst of scenarios, you pay money to that company for this license, and then if they really, legally dont own it, and somebody steps in as the legit owner, we can allways pledge that we were inocently fooled by Amiga Inc, but that we acted in good will by buying those alledged rights.
So, no charges may be filled against us, only an order to cease and desist from the rightfull owner, and maybe even an offer from them for a real license.
 
So, it is not so stupid, you see, it is in fact, a good business tactic when you want to make businesses with IPs apparently no one is interested in enforcing/marketing them. At the end, the company granting those licenses takes the blame, and not the one that was "fooled" into this scheme.

[cgutjahr]

Well basicly many former CBM/escom greedy marketing guys created a bunch of empty shells [...] It really seems that the real Amiga IP owner, now probably some big dog that absorved Gateway

I'm sorry, but perhaps you should "use google or the wayback machine or ask an old enough really involved Amiga user" yourself.

German company Escom bought the remainders of Commodore in April 1995. They soon got into a legal battle with another German company (VillageTronic, IIRC - I think the argument was about VT distributing 3.1 Kickstart ROMs). In 1996, Escom went bancrupt.

In July 1997, a German appeals court ruled in the Escom-VillageTronic litigation, that the (long defunct) Escom had not provided evidence that they actually bought the AmigaOS copyrights from Commodore, not just the trademarks and patents. Escom's bancruptcy trustee tried to repair the situation by creating new contracts between two (defunct) Commodore entities and Escom - and signing them for all three parties. He was entitled to sign contracts for Commodore under certain circumstances, but if he was entitled to sign this particular contract in the name of Commodore is another unanswered question.

That's the story about the open questions regarding AmigaOS ownership - we don't know if Escom ever owned the copyrights, so we don't know if any of their successors ever owned them. Anything else (hello Gulliver) is more or less daydreaming or wishful thinking. Of course there's no proof that "Amiga Inc ever acquired AmigaOS rights from Gateway", because we never saw the contracts between Amiga Inc. and Gateway.

[cgutjahr]

But then, there is a company that is named Amiga Inc. that is the only one that is claiming that IP is theirs, and is even considering granting some licenses for a fee.

Amiga Inc. do indeed claim to own the IP, but they actually gave up the idea of licensing it to a third party: According to the settlement between Amiga and Hyperion, the latter got the exclusive right to license AmigaOS to third parties.

Btw., another open question is what the settlement actually refers to: "the product named AmigaOS 3.1", or "AmigaOS up to version 3.1". But I'm sure you got that covered in your lengthy and detailed analysis of the situation regarding AmigaOS 3.