Roadshow for 68K -Needs your support!

[LoadWB]

If your code reads that original message and considers it malformed, prompting it to ignore it altogether, processing will never reach the state where a specific NAK would be sent in response.

What DHCP is lacking is a mechanism to notify the client/server of the rejection of a message prior to analyzing its meaning.

And thus I propose the DHCPSAYWHAT packet.

Sounds like a poorly-configured DHCP server to me

For example, the ISC DHCP server reference implementation allows you to lock down unsuitable address ranges, preventing clients from appropriating them.

Well, it is a pretty common issue between the LinkSys, D-Link, and Microsoft 2003 DNS services, so there you go.  But in this case it was not an issue of unsuitable address ranges, but identical ranges.  192.168.1.x at home AND at the office, so the machine would ask to use 192.168.1.100 and the DHCP server says yes, and the client keeps the same DNS settings because it does not see the need to change.

Now, it could be the client's fault and not the DNS server.  But I never bothered to sniff traffic to make that determination.  I may now just for shits and giggles.

[jsixis]

"Wait, it was different old story, which went like this: bottom drops out of the Amiga market, harder than usual this time, companies you did consulting work for during the last 10 years go bust, an old friend and collaborator dies of a cardiac arrest, and you find out how hard it can be to overcome a burnout."

 I remember Gateway coming to the Amigaorg show. I knew after that weekend the Amiga was going to die. It was way better before "someone" bought the license

[jsixis]

You can put me on the list as a buyer even though I am quite happy with Miami.
 I have the Miami Version 3.0 (bought at the Midwest Amiga Show) in an 060 Amiga 3000T with a C=2065 card and I use Roadrunner for my service.

 Not sure I'll get it to work with no GUI but I'll try.

 If there is a web browser that works on my system I would be very interested.
 Bought and paid for Aweb, Ibroswe and Voyager, they all quit working on my system.

 Still use my Amiga for upkeep of my website and email.

[ognix]

Hello!
I read about the "evolution" of this thread and Roadshow, but I missed (or wasn't stated) something about the limitations of the plain 68k version: it's written it's going to be, but there are no details about.
Could you tell us something Olaf?
I own many Amigas, but I like my A500 in particular (even if at the moment I have no ethernet option on it).
Thanks!

[olsen]

Hello!
I read about the "evolution" of this thread and Roadshow, but I missed (or wasn't stated) something about the limitations of the plain 68k version: it's written it's going to be, but there are no details about.
Could you tell us something Olaf?

Limitations? Hm... there are not going to be any functional limitations, compared to the version of Roadshow available as part of OS4.

Given the age of the code Roadshow is based upon, you won't see TCP/IP stack features which were added after 1994. This means that features such as path MTU discovery, T/TCP or IPv6 support will not be available. But they are not available in the OS4 version of Roadshow either.

I am determined not to put any DRM or anti-piracy measures into the 68k version, if this is what's mainly on your mind.

The current plan is that you will be able to legally use each copy of Roadshow on up to two computers at the same time, provided you paid for your copy. If you intend to use that copy on more than two computers at the same time, you will have to buy another copy. But (read the bit about DRM and anti-piracy measure above), I will not try to stop you from using your copy on more than two machines at the same time. It's your responsibility to comply with the usage requirements.

Due to how Roadshow works, it requires Kickstart 2.04 or higher. AmigaOS 1.x is thoroughly unsupported.

The devices, libraries and tools that come with Roadshow will all work on a plain 68000 machine. A special 68020-060 version of "bsdsocket.library", which implements the TCP/IP stack, will be included.

That's about as many "limitations" as I can think of right now.

I own many Amigas, but I like my A500 in particular (even if at the moment I have no ethernet option on it).
Thanks!

Not sure how the A500 will be supported, if it doesn't have a dedicated networking interface. You could probably rig something up with "plip.device", "slip.device", "liana.device" or "ppp-serial.device" and the necessary cabling, but it probably won't be quite so much fun

[ognix]

Limitations? Hm... there are not going to be any functional limitations, compared to the version of Roadshow available as part of OS4.

That's good news: I've read something just in the first messages on this thread...

Given the age of the code Roadshow is based upon, you won't see TCP/IP stack features which were added after 1994. This means that features such as path MTU discovery, T/TCP or IPv6 support will not be available. But they are not available in the OS4 version of Roadshow either.

I just have the basics of networking, and I don't know how much MTU path discovery could help in communications, but it's ok; IPv6 would be nice just to be "ready for the future" (if this "future" will come  ).

I am determined not to put any DRM or anti-piracy measures into the 68k version, if this is what's mainly on your mind.

The current plan is that you will be able to legally use each copy of Roadshow on up to two computers at the same time, provided you paid for your copy. If you intend to use that copy on more than two computers at the same time, you will have to buy another copy. But (read the bit about DRM and anti-piracy measure above), I will not try to stop you from using your copy on more than two machines at the same time. It's your responsibility to comply with the usage requirements.

Thanks for trusting in the community!  

Due to how Roadshow works, it requires Kickstart 2.04 or higher. AmigaOS 1.x is thoroughly unsupported.

The devices, libraries and tools that come with Roadshow will all work on a plain 68000 machine. A special 68020-060 version of "bsdsocket.library", which implements the TCP/IP stack, will be included.

That's about as many "limitations" as I can think of right now.

My A500 is equipped with KS2.04 at the moment, so no problem, and doesn't matter to have it under 1.x.

Not sure how the A500 will be supported, if it doesn't have a dedicated networking interface. You could probably rig something up with "plip.device", "slip.device", "liana.device" or "ppp-serial.device" and the necessary cabling, but it probably won't be quite so much fun

Yes, I know!  
I'm thinking about setting up a net with a serial cable and proper device to another Amiga, and using this last one as gateway.
Hope that a rumored ethernet interface for A500 will come to light as well (otherwise I'll use on my A600 with a proper PCMCIA adapter).

Thanks for the precise info!  

[Matt_H]

@ ognix

Hope that a rumored ethernet interface for A500 will come to light as well

There's always the 68000 socket -> Clockport adapter -> Subway -> USB Ethernet dongle route



@ olsen

Does Roadshow include a dialer? Or is the OS4 dialer something different?

[Methuselas]

You know, I have absolutely *NO* use for this at all, but I'd drop down a 20$ for it's release to the public. A very noble gesture on your part. Thank you.

[kolla]

I don't know how much MTU path discovery could help in communications

Without support for path MTU discovery you can end up in a situation where for example you seemingly at random can download from certain sites but not from others, even though you can ping them and reach them from other machines. I had this problem years and years ago with AmiTCP (it must have been, since Miami, appearantly, does support path MTU discovery).

The real culprit here is that since Roadshow is closed, the features of Roadshow is at the whim of one single person, which renders it rather useless for me at least, as I already have Miami.

[Trev]

Without support for path MTU discovery you can end up in a situation where for example you seemingly at random can download from certain sites but not from others, even though you can ping them and reach them from other machines. I had this problem years and years ago with AmiTCP (it must have been, since Miami, appearantly, does support path MTU discovery).

That would only be a problem if a router could not fragment the packet (either because of the packet's don't fragment flag or other reasons) or the remote host couldn't accept the MTU used. The easiest way to fix that in all cases is to use an MTU of 576 bytes, the minimum that all hosts are required to accept. Performance may suffer, but that's how it goes.

If that doesn't work, you could write a packet filter that snoops for applicable ICMP responses, e.g. type 3, code 4 (fragmentation required), adjusts the MTU accordingly (probably using a path MTU discovery process to decide on the size), and drops the ICMP response. Assuming your MTU adjustment code is written properly, the IP stack would either retransmit the packet after not receiving an acknowledgement or not know even about the problem, depending on the transport protocol being used.

I know that's a lot of work, but it does solve the problem. :-P

The real culprit here is that since Roadshow is closed, the features of Roadshow is at the whim of one single person, which renders it rather useless for me at least, as I already have Miami.

That's kind of the same for all commercial software, including AmigaOS itself. Miami, on the other hand, is ... dead? ;-)

[kolla]

I know that's a lot of work, but it does solve the problem. :-P

Yes, one could implement something path MTU discovery-ish as a filter :p

That's kind of the same for all commercial software, including AmigaOS itself.

Yes, and many of us have been promoting the liberation of AmigaOS sources since 1994, but nah - we still have to resort to hack&patch to fix things, and  anyone who _dare_ distributing prepatched binaries is officially to be treated as an outcast (yet everyone and their dogs happily share whatever on the zone over at EAB).

Miami, on the other hand, is ... dead? ;-)

And how long till Roadshow is dead? I don't see the big difference, really.

[Trev]

Yes, one could implement something path MTU discovery-ish as a filter.

;-) I'll give you this, though: a stack without path MTU discovery should probably automatically use an MTU of 576 (or a smaller MSS or whatever it needs to do given the architecture) when sending data to remote networks. It should be "safe" to assume the local MTU can be used, but as you experienced, that's not always the case.

And how long till Roadshow is dead? I don't see the big difference, really.

As long as Hyperion uses it as part of AmigaOS, I suspect it will be around. But let's not go down that path in this thread. :-P I've never heard or read a single bad thing about Olaf, so I don't have any reason not to trust that he won't continue to support the software as long as people are using it. (He still supports clib2, despite Hyperion moving to newlib as their default C library, and clib2 is free and open source.)

[olsen]

Yes, one could implement something path MTU discovery-ish as a filter :p


Yes, and many of us have been promoting the liberation of AmigaOS sources since 1994, but nah - we still have to resort to hack&patch to fix things, and  anyone who _dare_ distributing prepatched binaries is officially to be treated as an outcast (yet everyone and their dogs happily share whatever on the zone over at EAB).

Light a candle instead of cursing the darkness...

And how long till Roadshow is dead? I don't see the big difference, really.

I intend to stick around for a while, been doing it for almost 23 years now.

Holger's not even posting to this forum. But I am

[Plaz]

Light a candle instead of cursing the darkness...

Best line of the whole thread so far.

I'm one of the lucky ones that managed my own licensed copy of MiamiDX well before the Holger system crash. It's done well for my limited classic needs. But I will definitely consider a copy of Roadshow also if it can support my Prometheus/Realtek card set up.

Plaz

[TCMSLP]

Will this be released in time for xmas?  

[olsen]

Will this be released in time for xmas?  

Actually, I haven't thought that far ahead. It's just that the work I put into the documentation, the installer script, etc. finally came together this weekend.

As far as I'm concerned the result is ready to ship right now. I likely won't be selling Roadshow 68k by myself, and there's a standing offer from one publisher to take care of it for me, on short notice. There's another offer from a different publisher to integrate Roadshow 68k with a GUI and sell this integrated product, but I haven't heard back from him yet.

Likely I'll wait until next week before I make a decision on how things will move ahead. It's possible that Roadshow 68k will indeed be available for sale before Christmas this year