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Offline morcarTopic starter

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Commodore Phoenix questions
« on: July 13, 2010, 01:41:46 PM »
I am going to buy a Commodore Phoenix Pro edition but someone said it wouldnt install Amiga OS 4 ?

Is this right or not ?
 

Offline tone007

Re: Commodore Phoenix questions
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2010, 01:48:49 PM »
Correct, the Commodore Phoenix is just a rebranded PC and won't do anything more for you than an eMachines from WalMart.
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Offline the_leander

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Re: Commodore Phoenix questions
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2010, 01:50:59 PM »
Quote from: morcar;570141
I am going to buy a Commodore Phoenix Pro edition but someone said it wouldnt install Amiga OS 4 ?


If this is what you're on about, no, it won't. It's basically an X86 PC using laptop parts without the benefits of a screen.

OS4 will only run on PPC.

--edit--

To be clear - none of the computers on the commodoreusa site will run OS4.

At best you'll only be able run AROS or OS3.1 via UAE.
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Offline sim085

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Re: Commodore Phoenix questions
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2010, 02:04:51 PM »
Is Commodore USA even legal? In wikipedia I found the following text

"In 2010, it was announced that the Commodore name was returning to computer production with a new model being introduced, which includes the built in keyboard as the Commodore 64 with a touchpad and memory card reader. See http://www.commodoreusa.net for more information on the forthcoming release."

However as much as I know the Commodore trademark is used by the following company;
http://www.commodoregaming.com/eu/home.aspx?q=18,148,1

Does anyone know of any documents which show the legal use Commodore USA??

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Sim085
 

Offline the_leander

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Re: Commodore Phoenix questions
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2010, 02:40:53 PM »
Quote from: sim085;570147
Is Commodore USA even legal?


IANAL, but probably not. They claim they have permission to use the logo, "pending licensing rights". Make of that what you will.

The question is, does Commodore Gaming care enough/have enough cash to smoosh Barrys little enterprise?

Unless they take formal legal action to stop him, he can in principle do whatever the hell he likes with the logo and name.
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Offline BigBenAussie

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Re: Commodore Phoenix questions
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2010, 06:00:04 PM »
I've been in fairly frequent contact with the owner of Commodore USA regarding the possibility of having AROS pre-installed on their machines, which he is quite open to. In fact he is quite open to all sorts of Commodore fan suggestions, and if things progress, will place an emphasis on opening things up to community involvement wherever possible and bringing back as many aspects and features of the original machines as possible. His desire is for Commodore to provide specialty computers by fans for fans. But a lot of plans are on hold UNTIL things are sorted out regarding the trademark.

Of course there are no PUBLIC documents available that show that Commodore USA can use the Commodore trademark legally. I am sufficiently convinced that their usage of the trademark is legal pending negotiations for a long term license. This agreement is an internal business matter, as it should be, and not for public consumption. There is a disclaimer in the small text on the Commodore USA website which will have to suffice in terms of a public explanation of what is going on.

Throughout our correspondence Barry has been quite open regarding the negotiations, and I can tell you that they are proceeding. If this was a football game, I would say that they are in extra time.

Commodore Gaming is just a licensee and not the OWNER of the Commodore trademarks, even though they seem to have represented themselves in that way to many people, which has led to a lot of misinformed speculation regarding trademark legality by the gadget press.

I am not surprised that people think Commodore USA's machines will run OS4, for all the free advertising Hyperion is getting on that site.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2010, 07:00:08 PM by BigBenAussie »
 

Offline BigBenAussie

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Re: Commodore Phoenix questions
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2010, 06:31:13 PM »
@morcar
BTW I have a Commodore Phoenix Basic, which I am very happy with. It's entirely silver with black keys and really looks much better in the flesh than it does on the website. It kinda feels like it just fell off a spaceship and is quite sleek sitting on my desk (a bit of an Amiga fantasy in looks). And of course everyone's favourite joke is that you have to stick the Commodore logo sticker on yourself, which was only the case for a few weeks, not now. The keyboard feels quite sturdy, and the keyboard placement actually makes a lot of sense after you use if for a while.

The machine currently only comes with Ubuntu. I also have it triple booting Windows, Ubuntu and AROS from a graphical grub2 BURG menu which I think is kinda cool in a geeky way. They all boot incredibly quickly in around 10 or so seconds and with the boot screen menu coming up practically instantly. It's a pretty quick machine for my usage pattern. I haven't really tried a modern game on it though as I do my gaming on consoles, but I imagine it will be adequate but not stellar. It isn't aimed at gamers. For a lark, if gaming does prove to be crap on these machines, and forgive me for not rushing out and buying a current game to try, but I might install one of those new mini-PCI ION based graphic cards that are coming out soon. I'd need to swap out the wifi taking up that slot now though, although I do have a USB wi-fi dongle I could use.
 

Offline KThunder

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Re: Commodore Phoenix questions
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2010, 10:43:18 PM »
They look pretty cool, but you have to have at least two cables connected right? Power and video?
I'd run Aros on it...
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Offline halvliter'n

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Re: Commodore Phoenix questions
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2010, 11:02:46 PM »
How many hard-drives can you put in it, is it possible to upgrade the GPU, CPU and RAM. How many PCI slots are there?
Does it have any expansion opportunities, or is it just something new unnecessary clutter which will be stowed away or thrown in the garbage after a little while.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2010, 11:04:52 PM by halvliter'n »
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Offline persia

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Re: Commodore Phoenix questions
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2010, 01:37:03 AM »
The address is a furniture store.  It's a PC.  They claim to be in negotiations with a Dutch company that owns the Commodore name.  They are *not* in anyway shape or form related to the Commodore we knew and loved.  They are pricey for the specs they have.  The owner of "Commodore USA" went to the plants making various PCs and negotiated unbranded versions so that he could stick the Commodore labels on himself.  You will be far better off putting together your own box and throwing a Commodore label on it.  Actually you'll have one advantage of printing your own labels.  Your machine will be legal since you aren't selling someone else's brand, just putting a label on a computer for personal use!
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Offline the_leander

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Re: Commodore Phoenix questions
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2010, 04:41:54 AM »
Quote from: BigBenAussie;570170
But a lot of plans are on hold UNTIL things are sorted out regarding the trademark.


And those things won't be sorted until they have negotiated and agreed to a deal.

Quote from: BigBenAussie;570170

Of course there are no PUBLIC documents available that show that Commodore USA can use the Commodore trademark legally.


That would be because they, by the websites own admission, have no such licence.

As such, any sale of C= branded machines by this company is illegal until there is a valid licence held.

Quote from: BigBenAussie;570170

 I am sufficiently convinced that their usage of the trademark is legal pending negotiations for a long term license.


Then you are an even bigger tool than I took you for. If you require a licence, then until you have one, you are operating illegally. This isn't rocket science.

Quote from: BigBenAussie;570170

This agreement is an internal business matter, as it should be, and not for public consumption.


I've played this game before. Until there is a public statement to the effect agreed by both parties, CommodoreUSA's business should be considered infringing.

Yes, in some countries consumer protection laws will save your butt should it turn out that Barry has been BS'ing us all, but that does not apply to all countries.

The phrase Caveat Emptor could not be made in a better situation.

Quote from: BigBenAussie;570170

Commodore Gaming is just a licensee and not the OWNER of the Commodore trademarks, even though they seem to have represented themselves in that way to many people, which has led to a lot of misinformed speculation regarding trademark legality by the gadget press.


Citation needed. Now.

Because what you just said amounts to an accusation of criminal fraud.

Choose your next words very carefully sir.
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Offline dammy

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Re: Commodore Phoenix questions
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2010, 10:29:13 AM »
Quote from: the_leander;570242
And those things won't be sorted until they have negotiated and agreed to a deal.



That would be because they, by the websites own admission, have no such licence.

As such, any sale of C= branded machines by this company is illegal until there is a valid licence held.


It's illegal use when and only when the C= IP owners say it is.  Verbal agreement is fine between them until the owners say it's not.  Until we hear that Barry is being sued to stop him from using C= logo, he apparently is in good standing with the IP owner.  Legally, I sure wouldn't want to be in Barry's shoes if the agreement is not executed, he's put himself in bad position marketing wise if this all blows up in his face.  But that's good for the C= IP holders, just another tool to get what they want out of Barry.
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Offline the_leander

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Re: Commodore Phoenix questions
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2010, 10:52:41 AM »
Quote from: dammy;570261
It's illegal use when and only when the C= IP owners say it is.  Verbal agreement is fine between them until the owners say it's not.  


And Bernd Korz of Yellowtab totally had an agreement with Palm regarding the licensing of Be Inc IP.

Right up until Palm turned around and pimp slapped him when they decided that the direction he was taking wasn't to their liking...

Unless it is in writing, there is no proof of an agreement. And with regard use, it is technically illegal if you aren't licensed to trade under a brand not your own. As you say however it would require the owners to act before it would be enforced unless it was a big ass company whose brand you were selling under.

As someone who got stung by Korz, I would never, ever again knowingly place myself in a situation of buying potentially infringing products.

Until Barry gets a licence sorted. Steer well clear.
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Offline BigBenAussie

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Re: Commodore Phoenix questions
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2010, 11:28:54 AM »
Quote
Until Barry gets a licence sorted. Steer well clear.
Oh yeah, because if Commodore USA lose the temporary right to use the Commodore trademark, the_leander will come to your house and strip the Commodore sticker off your Phoenix. ;-)
So whatever you do, don't give him your address okay. ;-)
Honestly, just because someone goes through a divorce doesn't necessarily mean marriage is bad for everyone. Get a grip.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2010, 11:40:56 AM by BigBenAussie »
 

Offline the_leander

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Re: Commodore Phoenix questions
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2010, 11:46:04 AM »
Quote from: BigBenAussie;570272
Oh yeah, because if Commodore USA lose the temporary right to use the Commodore trademark


Any customer who has been suckered into purchasing infringing equipment can pretty much kiss goodbye to any support post a C&D.

Quote from: BigBenAussie;570272


Honestly, just because someone goes through a divorce doesn't necessarily mean marriage is bad for everyone. Get a grip.


I don't know why you're shilling for this guy, perhaps you are Barry, I don't know or care tbh. But until a genuine licence is in place, consumers are utterly at the mercy of the IP holders.

That is not a good place to be.
Blessed Be,
Alan Fisher - the_leander

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