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Author Topic: I don't get it.  (Read 34114 times)

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Offline gertsy

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Re: I don't get it.
« Reply #164 from previous page: June 28, 2010, 12:56:43 PM »
Quote from: the_leander;567747

....
BAF = Blind Amiga Fanatics
......


But the Amiga OS never had "Accessibility Options."  Though it was always a high contrast OS. Originally.
 

Offline the_leander

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Re: I don't get it.
« Reply #165 on: June 28, 2010, 01:03:47 PM »


I laughed hard at that gertsy, well played!
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Offline kolla

Re: I don't get it.
« Reply #166 on: June 28, 2010, 02:16:31 PM »
Quote from: gertsy;567750
But the Amiga OS never had "Accessibility Options."  Though it was always a high contrast OS. Originally.


What, you have never had your amiga speak its entire startup-sequence for you on boot?
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Offline AJCopland

Re: I don't get it.
« Reply #167 on: June 28, 2010, 03:11:34 PM »
Quote from: the_leander;567747

No one has said or implied that. Also quit making it personal. It isn't.

My apologies, I just get really worked up when people seem harsh towards peoples achievements and bringing a PPC computer to market running AOS4.x is an achievement these days. It may not be a wise one, but it's their choice to do it or not and peoples decision if they want to buy it or not.

Look the way I see it is that £1500 for what you get is overly steep for me, I can't afford it, but your criticism's are harsh. You basically stated this CPu is a dead end, but they don't have to use this CPU again, any compatible PPC (from AMCC, Freescale, IBM, etc) chip will do in future if they're still around. Or it's not a good power/performance/price relationship, neither is a Mac but it's the only way you're running OSX.

Simply slamming them for doing it at all though seems churlish.
I'm gonna bow out 'cos you're right though I am making it personal when you don't mean it to be, so my apologies once more.

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Offline the_leander

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Re: I don't get it.
« Reply #168 on: June 28, 2010, 03:40:34 PM »
Quote from: AJCopland;567770
My apologies, I just get really worked up when people seem harsh towards peoples achievements and bringing a PPC computer to market running AOS4.x is an achievement these days. It may not be a wise one, but it's their choice to do it or not and peoples decision if they want to buy it or not.


Indeed.

Quote from: AJCopland;567770

Look the way I see it is that £1500 for what you get is overly steep for me, I can't afford it, but your criticism's are harsh.


Possibly they are. But their being harsh doesn't (or at least, shouldn't) take away from the fact that they are true.

Quote from: AJCopland;567770
You basically stated this CPu is a dead end, but they don't have to use this CPU again, any compatible PPC (from AMCC, Freescale, IBM, etc) chip will do in future if they're still around.


And this is where I think we have something of a problem. PPC right now, even for G3 class cpus is hideously expensive. In fact they're more expensive now than when the G3's were first released. It gets worse again with the G4 class parts. Seriously take a peak at development boards along the same lines as that ARM beagleboard I posted about the other day. To get the same sort of performance in PPC you're looking at a 6 fold price premium and it isn't going away or getting any better.

Telecoms don't really need uber fast CPU's for their gear as they tend to tie in the CPU with an FPGA. The market for top end stuff like the PA6T died with Apple going x86. IBM will happily take one of their POWER cores and strip it down or even design you a new core based on the PPC ISA, but for that you need to be on the scale of SONY, Microsoft or Nintendo to justify that sort of outlay.

In the embedded/industrial sector, unless you're in the military PPC doesn't feature all that much. Here it's ARM, MIPS and even Coldfire (for continuation of 68k code). I can see a day where ARM and possibly to a lesser extent MIPS move in on PPC's last major remaining niche in telecoms simply because price/performance is hugely in their favour and the tools to develop with them are well known and mature.

Quote from: AJCopland;567770
Or it's not a good power/performance/price relationship, neither is a Mac but it's the only way you're running OSX.


Macs aren't *that* bad in terms of price performance. They also have the advantage of having tools and software that make the price palatable to consumers. I can't honestly think of one piece of OS4 software that remotely justifies the price of the X1000 (to be fair though, I could throw the same argument at the Sam and make it stick. Up until recently anything MorphOS could run on too).

Those developers who wanted into OS4 are here already. So this is the pool of talent you have to work with. I can't see too many developers popping out of the woodwork at the thought of a £1500 piece of kit that haven't already.

Hardware lock-in only really works if you can offer something so good as to justify it to your customers - See Oracle with Sparc, for instance or the games console model.

I don't want to come across as nasty, especially as you seem so passionate about this. But at the same time I don't want to sit and watch people getting hurt and possibly being made bankrupt by this knowing I did and said nothing to try to avert it.

Quote from: AJCopland;567770

Simply slamming them for doing it at all though seems churlish.


I agree, if that were what I was doing.

Quote from: AJCopland;567770

I'm gonna bow out 'cos you're right though I am making it personal when you don't mean it to be, so my apologies once more.


No worries man, have a good'un. I find watching the women's tennis is a good way of relaxing, hooray for Wimbledon ;)
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Offline halvliter'n

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Re: I don't get it.
« Reply #169 on: June 28, 2010, 08:42:30 PM »
Quote from: the_leander;567747

BAF = Blind Amiga Fanatics.

The largest BAFs are people with AROS and MacMorph who believe they are using a Amiga. WinUAE too.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2010, 08:46:31 PM by halvliter'n »
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Offline Methuselas

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Re: I don't get it.
« Reply #170 on: June 28, 2010, 09:13:26 PM »
Quote from: halvliter'n;567843
The largest BAFs are people with AROS and MacMorph who believe they are using a Amiga. WinUAE too.


Xenu. Xenu. Xenu. XENU.


Xemu. Xemu. Xemu. XEMU.


(Just to cover both.)
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Offline EDanaII

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Re: I don't get it.
« Reply #171 on: June 28, 2010, 11:51:18 PM »
Quote from: halvliter'n;567843
The largest BAFs are people with AROS and MacMorph who believe they are using a Amiga. WinUAE too.


:rolleyes:

In the words of Bill O'Reilly: "Pinhead? You decide."
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Offline djrikki

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Re: I don't get it.
« Reply #172 on: June 29, 2010, 12:07:45 AM »
halvliter'n is so right.

Offline KarlosTopic starter

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Re: I don't get it.
« Reply #173 on: June 29, 2010, 12:26:12 AM »
Quote from: djrikki;567875
halvliter'n is so right.

He's surely half left?
int p; // A
 

Offline kolla

Re: I don't get it.
« Reply #174 on: June 29, 2010, 12:28:09 AM »
he's djrikki too many halfliters, sjøh.
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Offline Gulliver

Re: I don't get it.
« Reply #175 on: June 29, 2010, 05:08:35 AM »
Here is another guy that doesnt get it :)

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/06/25/riscos_beagleboard/page2.html

..."And new RISC OS hardware has never been so cheap: the official price of the board in its home state of Texas is $149, which with trans-Atlantic markup converts to about £120 in the UK. You'll need some basic RISC OS-fu to get it up and running, but compared to the £1500 that the new Amiga  will cost you, it's a bargain. ®"...
 

Offline XDelusion

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Re: I don't get it.
« Reply #176 on: June 29, 2010, 06:16:50 AM »
My only beef with the price, is because I, a Classic, AROS, and MorphOS user, want to be able to have a taste of the pie my self! I dream of a future where all incarnations of Amiga exist, and live long and happy lives, co-existing and as compatible with one another as much as they can be, each living up the the Amiga spirit in it's own way.

I've never been a fan of mass collectivism, One World Order concepts, Consolidation, conglomerations, etc. I prefer creativity, diversity, freedom, and exploration led by the light of wisdom and one's conscious.

The Amiga, to me, reflect this. Sure it was about profit, but it was designed by a team with so many things in their heads, they were vibrant, alive, and doing their own thing for the passion of it. It wasn't it cubical job, it wasn't slaving in the sweat shop, it was fun, and it allowed them to expand themselves through it.

And look at Jay Miner, he spoke often about how technology will be the end of us, and eventually we would be wearing the proverbial number of the beast upon our heads.

Their is so much SOUL in the Amiga legacy, it is not funny, and the community, be they at odds at one another, or chill, is the tightest, most amazing community their is. It's almost like religion, in fact much better than organized religion in my book. I can't recall ever having been screwed over by any of the various Amiga users I used to take road trips to meet, or have done business with, etc. Nor have I met an odder gathering of people than at one of the old Amiga shows. It's a fun crowd.

So it is this, that Amiga in it's various incarnations represents, and it is this that I want to have a great future.

Naturally I love what the guys behind the X1000 are doing, yes the price is over what I deem worthy of such an investment at this point as I don't see what I could possibly do with it, that I can't do with Amiga in one of it's other, much cheaper, incarnations. It needs a distinct purpose, a signature quality that makes it stand out, and appealing to people.

That's why I'm concerned about it's future, that's a BIG investment to be making merely for the love of something. Unless they've got an ace in their sleeve that we don't know about, there are only going to be a few, most likely under 100, units sold. At least that is my estimation, maybe my concept of how many financially happy Amiga users are actually out there in the world.

As for niche markets, they got to have software to compete in such a market. I.E. if you want to sell Amigas to factories to maintain and operate the robots, then you better have some well researched, stable, and versatile software available, on an OS that is not going to crash at that.

If this is going to crash and bomb being merely a product made of passion, but with no battle strategy for the market, then I would be hugely saddened by the whole ordeal, and I think it would be yet another battle wound added to Amiga's already scarred history.

So, unless they've got an Ace in their sleeve, like maybe something in relation to that extra processor that will be included, and some software that actually makes it's purpose stand out...

...I'd say they'd have been ahead by maybe going back to the day, and entering the Amiga into the game console wars...

...in a way. I hate to say it, this totally goes against my Jedi Ethic, but if you want to survive in the modern market (cringe), then you got to have an ace up your sleeve, or you got to get into entertainment. Even during recession and depression, the only stores that remain in the quickly dying cities (like now in America) are the stores that cater to  mindless over indulgence of various forms of entertainment.
In such a world, the only hope would be to create imaginative and thought provoking media, or media that allows one to create.

That's where the Amiga could have a safe place in such a market. With retro being the in thing, I think it would be wise to advertise the Amiga and it's insanely large back catalog of games. Integrated backwards compatibility seems to be making strides with all variants of Amiga OS, so their could easily be created a simple interface which gives access to a catalog of installed, free to download games from Amiga's history.

Coders could freely write new code for the machine without permission, and would be free to release or sell the software they designed.

Upon booting, the OS could be given (through selecting users) the option to boot into OS mode, or boot into a simple game console type interface which provides easy access to all installed games and or applications.

Of course you could browse the web, do IRC, and all that jazz, which only adds to the couch potato appeal.


I dunno, I'm kind of tired of typing, but I'm thinking the next best step, unless they got an ace up their sleeve, would be an inexpensive and massive market, and I know the gaming market/couch pc market, is only growing, and the home brew seen for consoles is growing as well. These coders LOVE to see how far they can push those machines and their limited resources, one such coder is the well known Bero of the Amiga community as an example. :)

Anyhow, just a thought, I wish them well, and I hope they do have an ace up their sleeve that will provoke me to starve my dog, let the plants die, and the fridge go barren, etc. So that I may too be an Amiga X1000 user.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2010, 06:50:53 AM by XDelusion »
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Offline halvliter'n

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Re: I don't get it.
« Reply #177 on: June 29, 2010, 06:34:16 AM »
Quote from: kolla;567879
he's djrikki too many halfliters, sjøh.

No, I do not.

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Offline kolla

Re: I don't get it.
« Reply #178 on: June 29, 2010, 04:20:21 PM »
Quote from: halvliter'n;567907
No, I do not.
I was a joke, you see... your nick being halvliter'n and that other guy's nick being djrikki, kind of obvious, and very funny when you think about it, so... you get it? Haha... uhm, noone appreciates silly puns anymore? What's wrong with you people! :laughing:
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Offline runequester

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Re: I don't get it.
« Reply #179 on: June 29, 2010, 05:28:18 PM »
Quote from: XDelusion;567905
My only beef with the price, is because I, a Classic, AROS, and MorphOS user, want to be able to have a taste of the pie my self! I dream of a future where all incarnations of Amiga exist, and live long and happy lives, co-existing and as compatible with one another as much as they can be, each living up the the Amiga spirit in it's own way.

I've never been a fan of mass collectivism, One World Order concepts, Consolidation, conglomerations, etc. I prefer creativity, diversity, freedom, and exploration led by the light of wisdom and one's conscious.

The Amiga, to me, reflect this. Sure it was about profit, but it was designed by a team with so many things in their heads, they were vibrant, alive, and doing their own thing for the passion of it. It wasn't it cubical job, it wasn't slaving in the sweat shop, it was fun, and it allowed them to expand themselves through it.

And look at Jay Miner, he spoke often about how technology will be the end of us, and eventually we would be wearing the proverbial number of the beast upon our heads.

Their is so much SOUL in the Amiga legacy, it is not funny, and the community, be they at odds at one another, or chill, is the tightest, most amazing community their is. It's almost like religion, in fact much better than organized religion in my book. I can't recall ever having been screwed over by any of the various Amiga users I used to take road trips to meet, or have done business with, etc. Nor have I met an odder gathering of people than at one of the old Amiga shows. It's a fun crowd.


You sir, speak truth