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Offline drHirudo

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Re: How is OS4 ?
« Reply #119 on: June 17, 2010, 04:21:21 PM »
Quote from: runequester;564814
from those who use it, or have in the past, how is amiga OS4 ?

Whats cool and fun ?

Well, if you have experience with AmigaOS 3.x, here are some of the features that I love in AmigaOS 4 and reasons for not looking back at the classic Amigas:

AmigaOS 4 advantages

1. No boot partition size limit. No more 4GB partition Hard Disk limit crap. I know this was fixed with some patches in AmigaOS 3.5 and 3.9, but if you needed to boot without Startup-Sequence, it can destroy your boot partition if it is bigger than 4GB. I know a friend who had 24 partitions in a 100GB hard drive. Painful to sort.
2. No more FastFileSystem crap. You can use SFS for boot partition on AmigaOS 4. AmigaOS 4.1 have the nice JXFilesystem. I never ever lost a file with JXFilesystem. I lost some files with the SFS, but I easily recovered them. With FastFileSystem, I lost lots of files during the years. Validation gives me headaches, because I don't know what file is truncated after it.
3. Virtual Memory. No more usage of simple and dangerous to the system MMU hacks. Virtual Memory is presented and built-in and I use it a lot, since my Amiga is only 256 MB RAM. But even if I had 10GB of RAM I still would write movies to RAM: and watch them from there and if I forget about them in the RAM. Having SWAP: is a nice feature.
4. No more need for third party software to connect to the Internet. With AmigaOS 3.1 you need something like Miami, which you can not register anymore. Good luck with the limited demo for 30 minutes. NetConnect was not working good with me on my Amiga 4000.
5. ASL requester with the possibility to sort with a single click. I open many files very often. With big directories, the old ASL was a pain for finding files. Now with a single click I sort by Name, Size, Date. Selecting files now is much easier and fun.
6. No more need for second monitor if you are with graphics card and want to play old games or something goes wrong at bootup. The RTG system is built-in, you don't need to search for patches for specific graphics card.
7. GrimReaper - if a program is not stripped, the Grim tells a lot about the reasons for the message to appear. This is very handy for developers. On AmigaOS 3.9 I used MMULib/MuTools and MuForce (Enforcer alike program), but the GRIM is much much better.
8. Very good SDK. I used a lot VBCC on AmigaOS 3.9. I still use it on AmigaOS 4, now compiling for AmigaOS 3 and 4. But the AmigaOS 4.x have many more libraries included, which were pain to install with AmigaOS 3.9.
9. AmigaInput - now I can play games with wide variety of joysticks. I can configure the buttons to my liking, I can set the threshold for the analog paddles. In AmigaOS 3.9, the support for Joysticks with several buttons is limited.
10. No more need to put commodities and programs in WBStartup and manage AmigaOS startup with hacks like WBStartup/Enabled and WBStartup/Disabled or similar. The new startup modules management is very nice.
11. Notification system. Not much talked about and discussed feature of AmigaOS 4, but I like when tunes names popup when listening to online radio. It can have many other uses like notification for downloaded files, new e-mail etc...
12. SObjects - shared objects. Some programs use them. Additional plus of AmigaOS 4.
13. AmiUpdate. No more need for manual search for updates. Many programs are already in AmiUpdate.
14. System RollBack - part of AmiUpdate, where you can roll back to old system.
15. AHI is a standart. No more need to mix the Paula out and the audio card out if you want to use a single audio output.

The list can go on and on. But I will leave it to other AmigaOS 4 users to add more features they love of AmigaOS 4 over AmigaOS 3.
Hope this helps. If you are familiar with AmigaOS, you will love AmigaOS 4.
Regards

Offline DAX

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Re: How is OS4 ?
« Reply #120 on: June 17, 2010, 04:40:18 PM »
@Crumb @Varthal

Since you are beyond OT here (ain't there a TOS here?) and it would seem never-ending, why don't you happily continue elsewhere? PM? Dedicated thread?
 

Offline Piru

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Re: How is OS4 ?
« Reply #121 on: June 17, 2010, 04:53:09 PM »
Quote
1. No boot partition size limit. No more 4GB partition Hard Disk limit crap. I know this was fixed with some patches in AmigaOS 3.5 and 3.9, but if you needed to boot without Startup-Sequence, it can destroy your boot partition if it is bigger than 4GB. I know a friend who had 24 partitions in a 100GB hard drive. Painful to sort.

For instance Phase5 products all support 64bit directly, so there are no such issues. Works even with KS 3.0.

Quote
2. No more FastFileSystem crap. You can use SFS for boot partition on AmigaOS 4.

You can use SFS boot partition with AmigaOS 3.x as well. Actually you really should use PFS3 with AmigaOS 3.x though (it's becoming freeware, too) :-)

Quote
3. Virtual Memory. No more usage of simple and dangerous to the system MMU hacks.

Whether virtual memory is dangerous or not depends on the applications you run. VMM worked just fine even with KS 3.0 and 68030 already.

Quote
4. No more need for third party software to connect to the Internet.

AmigaOS 3.9 includes AmiTCP/IP, but admittedly with a questionable license.

Quote
7. GrimReaper - if a program is not stripped, the Grim tells a lot about the reasons for the message to appear. This is very handy for developers. On AmigaOS 3.9 I used MMULib/MuTools and MuForce (Enforcer alike program), but the GRIM is much much better.

SmartCrash provided the functionality years ago already for AmigaOS 3.x. Okay it wasn't included with the OS, I admit. But there's nothing special about Grim Reaper itself.

Quote
10. No more need to put commodities and programs in WBStartup and manage AmigaOS startup with hacks like WBStartup/Enabled and WBStartup/Disabled or similar. The new startup modules management is very nice.

I remember reading some stark criticism about this new system, too.

Quote
12. SObjects - shared objects. Some programs use them. Additional plus of AmigaOS 4.

It's easy to create normal amiga shared libraries with per caller data. bsdsocket.library is a common example, every AmigaOS 3.x installation with a networking installed has such library installed. The added bonus is that you don't need to load the code in memory for every caller, like you have to with AmigaOS 4 SObjects.
 

Offline Piru

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Re: How is OS4 ?
« Reply #122 on: June 17, 2010, 04:53:53 PM »
Quote from: DAX;565151
ain't there a TOS here?
Huh you didn't read it?

http://www.amiga.org/index.php?pageid=posting_guidelines
« Last Edit: June 17, 2010, 05:02:35 PM by Piru »
 

Offline DAX

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Re: How is OS4 ?
« Reply #123 on: June 17, 2010, 04:58:44 PM »
@Piru
And maybe you forgot it ;)
 

Offline Piru

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Re: How is OS4 ?
« Reply #124 on: June 17, 2010, 05:00:36 PM »
Quote from: DAX;565155
@Piru
And maybe you forgot it ;)

If you're accusing me of something, come up with direct claims without these games. Thanks in advance.
 

Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: How is OS4 ?
« Reply #125 on: June 17, 2010, 05:05:34 PM »
Quote from: DAX;565151
(ain't there a TOS here?)


Hehe, that comment really made my day, thanks! :)

It's always the same though, as soon as OS4 advocates run out of rational pro-OS4 arguments compared to MorphOS (which happens rather instantly), they start whining and moaning about behavior and whatever and calls for censoring by moderators. It's seems to be the only way to sell OS4; to control and dictate the information flow by force. Quite sad if you ask me. There are already sites where only allow pro-OS4 talk, go there if you want to escape reality for a moment...
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline drHirudo

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Re: How is OS4 ?
« Reply #126 on: June 17, 2010, 05:12:42 PM »
Quote from: Piru;565153
For instance Phase5 products all support 64bit directly, so there are no such issues. Works even with KS 3.0.

And what happens if you need to press 2 and disable the accelerator for some old game? I wouldn't take the risk of having over 4GB partition in this case.

Quote

You can use SFS boot partition with AmigaOS 3.x as well. Actually you really should use PFS3 with AmigaOS 3.x though (it's becoming freeware, too) :-)

And what happens if you need to boot from some other partion for some reason and it does not have SFS? I want to be able to access the old boot partition as well.
Quote

Whether virtual memory is dangerous or not depends on the applications you run. VMM worked just fine even with KS 3.0 and 68030 already.

I assume it was part of the OS? All the VMM applications I used on AmigaOS 3 sucked badly. There is a reason almost noone used VMM on AmigaOS 3. On AmigaOS 4, VMM is part of the OS. It's transparent. I hardy see anyone turning it off. Its a nice plus. I prefer to have it, and it works.
Quote

AmigaOS 3.9 includes AmiTCP/IP, but admittedly with a questionable license.

Not as good as Miami. The AmigaOS 4 TCP/IP stack is even better than Miami in my experience.
Quote

SmartCrash provided the functionality years ago already for AmigaOS 3.x. Okay it wasn't included with the OS, I admit. But there's nothing special about Grim Reaper itself.

GrimReaper helps the developers by being included in the OS. Every user who have problems with some software can very easily generate a log and send it to the developer. SmartCrash is not built-in and requires extra effort from the user to install it. I prefer to have it. It's built-in. Its established standard already.
Quote

I remember reading some stark criticism about this new system, too.

People who used the old systems for decades, surely had a hard time with the new system, but to me it seems they fixed it fast and now they are used to the more elegant and transparent new system.
Quote

It's easy to create normal amiga shared libraries with per caller data. bsdsocket.library is a common example, every AmigaOS 3.x installation with a networking installed has such library installed. The added bonus is that you don't need to load the code in memory for every caller, like you have to with AmigaOS 4 SObjects.

It's easy for AmigaOS 3.0 to run Windows binaries, but this is only in theory. In practice this was posted from AmigaOS 4, which is a nice system and I like it over AmigaOS 3.

Offline DAX

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Re: How is OS4 ?
« Reply #127 on: June 17, 2010, 05:14:34 PM »
@Piru
I don't think that keep on doing heavy OT even after a moderator politely asked to quit it is part of the TOS

@TMHM
Don't get too exited, i hate OTs and if you check my post count (VS registration date) at AW, you might realize I don't skimp on replies ;)
 

Offline halvliter'n

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Re: How is OS4 ?
« Reply #128 on: June 17, 2010, 05:15:14 PM »
@Piru
You should have been an AmigaOS developer, it was you who made Blizkick if I remember right. I use Blizkick every time I turn on the Amiga. :)
Commodore64+TheFinalCartridgeIII+CBM1541, A500+512slow+1084, A1200+BPPC060+Bvision+AOS3.9
 

Offline Britelite

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Re: How is OS4 ?
« Reply #129 on: June 17, 2010, 05:16:05 PM »
Quote from: drHirudo;565159
And what happens if you need to press 2 and disable the accelerator for some old game? I wouldn't take the risk of having over 4GB partition in this case.


Well, on OS4 (and MOS) you don't even have the option of running the old game ;) (and no, uae doesn't count)
 

Offline gazgod

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Re: How is OS4 ?
« Reply #130 on: June 17, 2010, 05:24:30 PM »
Quote from: DAX;565126
@gazgod
Well I bought a SamFlex (1GB ram/128Mb Radeon 9250) when you wrote that piece, and comparing the experience I had of that Beta version of 4.1 and today's Update 2 it is more or less night and day.

OWB was slower, less featured and crashed a lot (3.28 is Rock Solid and faster) UAE before a serious settings analysis and before a Sam specific version (and RunInUae), seemed unusable, now I run the big majority of A500 games 1:1 (read here), DVDs play better, usability and stability, graphical appeal, all has improved a ton.

Consider also that 533 and 667Mhz are no longer available and very soon the only Sam you will be able to buy will be the 460EX with L2 cache and 1.0Ghz clockspeed (as usual A-cube will factory overclock the best samples worry not, probably to 1.2Ghz as they mentioned they had a sample with that clock in the past).


@DAX

I rarely surf on any Amiga platform except for them aminet and occasional forum visits so OWB was not an issue with me. Neither was UAE, I have several real Amigas for my gaming fix.

A faster CPU with no cache just wastes more clock cycles waiting, If the other speeds are the same it still has to wait the same time.

I still have contact with my ex sam (it went to another member of my user group), And it now has all the updates on it, the most generous thing I can say about it is it slightly improved. But all the points in my post from 2009 are still valid IMHO.

Gaz

Offline Piru

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Re: How is OS4 ?
« Reply #131 on: June 17, 2010, 05:26:35 PM »
Quote from: drHirudo;565159
And what happens if you need to press 2 and disable the accelerator for some old game?
Nothing?

Quote
And what happens if you need to boot from some other partion for some reason and it does not have SFS? I want to be able to access the old boot partition as well.
Nothing? Why wouldn't you able to access the old boot partition? Do you know how RDB works?

Quote
I assume it was part of the OS?
It wasn't.
Quote
All the VMM applications I used on AmigaOS 3 sucked badly.
VMM worked just fine, although I disabled since I had all the RAM I could ever dream of anyway. It was a nice toy though, over 1GB ram... yay.
Quote
There is a reason almost noone used VMM on AmigaOS 3.
Yes. The lack of applications actually needing huge amounts of RAM.

Quote
On AmigaOS 4, VMM is part of the OS. It's transparent. I hardy see anyone turning it off. Its a nice plus. I prefer to have it, and it works.
Whatever suits you. I prefer having enough physical memory instead.

Quote
Not as good as Miami.
Debatable. AmiTCP/IP is way faster than Miami for instance (upto 30%). Miami(Dx) also crashes in some unexpected and random ways, while AmiTCP/IP is just rock solid.

Quote
GrimReaper helps the developers by being included in the OS.
Sure. I did't claim SmartCrash was included, I just pointed out that the functionality is nothing new, and AmigaOS 3.x has had it for ages.

Quote
It's easy for AmigaOS 3.0 to run Windows binaries, but this is only in theory.
Err? What has running x86 binaries have to do with creating a normal amiga shared library? There is nothing theoretic about it. Numerous libraries use this method and they work just fine. In practice.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2010, 05:40:18 PM by Piru »
 

Offline DAX

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Re: How is OS4 ?
« Reply #132 on: June 17, 2010, 05:28:23 PM »
@Britelite
i'll have to disagree there, thanks to RunInUae a new app, we get seamless OCS/AGA integration in AOS4, this include disks, HD installations and WHDLoads.

You just double click on any content brought over from your classic and it will be running full screen in no time (check my tips HERE for natural looking video output, that has nothing to envy to a classic A500).
Add a competition pro, turn off the lights and get ready to blast off  the evil Bydo empire.

Actually I am able to run games that due to kick 3.1 and other stuff, do not run any longer on my expanded A2000, go figure...
 

Offline Piru

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Re: How is OS4 ?
« Reply #133 on: June 17, 2010, 05:28:35 PM »
Quote from: DAX;565160
@Piru
I don't think that keep on doing heavy OT even after a moderator politely asked to quit it is part of the TOS

Where am I OT exactly?
 

Offline Piru

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Re: How is OS4 ?
« Reply #134 from previous page: June 17, 2010, 05:29:12 PM »
Quote from: halvliter'n;565161
@Piru
You should have been an AmigaOS developer
I was asked actually, I declined. No, I am not going to go into details.

Oh, and I am a MorphOS developer btw, for almost 10 years now.