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Offline DavidF215

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Re: Windows is buggy and slow lets buy a Mac
« Reply #149 from previous page: March 24, 2010, 05:14:02 AM »
I have Windows 7, and I actually like it. It runs really well on my computer. I haven't had major problems with it yet. DirectX is a great API for developers. If Commodore would have actually marketed the Amiga API when it had the chance, maybe C= wouldn't have gone bankrupt so soon. By what I've read of the Amiga API code, it looks pretty easy, but it's not promoted. The only Mac I would buy would be a Mac Mini with OS X Server so that I could have unlimited user accounts for cheaper than what Microsoft charges.
AmigaOS enthusiast since 1993.
 

Offline johnklos

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Re: Windows is buggy and slow lets buy a Mac
« Reply #150 on: March 24, 2010, 05:59:15 AM »
I don't understand what all this complaining is about. Let's look at the benefits and shortcomings of each OS:

AmigaDOS: back in the '80s and '90s, it was the only personal computer on which people could affordably program. Nowadays it's hard to get new hardware and updated software, plus the lack of memory protection is a pain.

Windows: ubiquitous, machines are cheap, but costly or difficult to use for development, painfully insecure, and horribly inconsistent.

MacOS: then, the idiot savant which did certain things wonderfully but not much else; expensive. These days, it's the only mainstream Unix or Unix-like OS which is easy to use, consistent, and has excellent software selection. Most complaints have to do with expensive hardware, but installation on non-Mac hardware isn't hard and the prices aren't really that bad (you get what you pay for - you get a premium computer).

GNU/Linux: available for cheap hardware and generally more secure than Windows, especially in default setups. Downsides are inconsistency between distributions, lack of good distro-specific documentation, idiosyncratic behavior, kitchen sink syndrome, and wanna-be-Windows syndrome.


Most people who like Amigas like to tinker, but there are different kinds of tinkering. It's like people who like working on cars - some people like to work on a car and never get it finished enough to drive, so it sits around as an always going project, whereas some people keep their cars running all the time yet work on them to make them better.

Windows is great for tinkering - blocking incoming and outgoing connections constantly is like playing Space Invaders, finding and zapping trojans is like playing Centipede, et cetera. It never ends, and some people enjoy the challenge.

GNU/Linux is getting that way, too. You're always playing with new modules, reconfiguring the X Window system, trying to figure out all the background processes running, et cetera.

Some people want the car to always be drivable. I'm like that - I run servers using NetBSD without GUIs and hardly ever reboot them. I know exactly what's running, when it runs, why it runs, and know my systems are completely secure because I can recreate each and every file in the entire OS and compare them with what's on disk.

My car, by the way, is a Diesel Chevette with 450,000 miles on it. It gets 40-50 miles per gallon, and it'll be running (and running well) long after most cars currently on the road are long gone. I know I'm definitely the exception in this case.

At the other end, I want a machine which I don't need to reboot all the time, so I don't want to tinker with it. Therefore, I use Mac OS X. Every once in a while I run Software Update, but otherwise it just runs. No problems, no modules, no trying to get the GUI to match the configuration files, no killing runaway Landscape processes. It just works, it's secure, and I have certainly gotten my money's worth for my Mac mini.

Of course there are people like me who want things to just run all the time but who run Windows and GNU/Linux. They're braver than I am, and there's nothing wrong with that at all. Everyone has a choice.


BUT - and this is an important but - putting down other people's choices doesn't make yours any better. Trying to maintain tenuous stances about silly generalizations doesn't change the truth. GNU/Linux isn't always easy, but once you get it set up to your liking it's not bad. Windows is horribly insecure, but if you're smart enough to never click on links in email and you don't use IE, you're probably much less likely to get infected than the masses. Mac OS systems aren't cheap, but you can get a used Mac or install Mac OS X on some generic Intel hardware without too much fuss.

Just remember about how people always put Amigas down for stupid reasons - and we know that it was mostly just because they were jealous!
 

Offline DavidF215

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Re: Windows is buggy and slow lets buy a Mac
« Reply #151 on: March 24, 2010, 07:04:03 AM »
Quote from: johnklos;549453
Windows: ubiquitous, machines are cheap, but costly or difficult to use for development, painfully insecure, and horribly inconsistent.
I would say that Windows is easy to develop software for, especially with Visual Basic. I have read that MacOS X is easy to program (API), but the Apple Stores don't have it installed to look at.

Quote
Everyone has a choice.
Indeed. I like that.

Quote
Windows is horribly insecure, but if you're smart enough to never click on links in email and you don't use IE, you're probably much less likely to get infected than the masses.

Also, if one was smart enough not to run under an administrator type account then one would be safer in Windows. Unfortunately most run in an Unlimited/Admin account on Windows rather than using a Standard/Limited account. If one does not typically login as Root on a Unix system, then why login as an admin on a Windows box.
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Offline persia

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Re: Windows is buggy and slow lets buy a Mac
« Reply #152 on: March 24, 2010, 01:42:48 PM »
@johnklos

15 years of nothing has taken a toll on AmigaOS for sure.

Cost (price performance)
1) Linux/BSD intel box
2) MS Windows
3) OS X
4) AmigaOS

Sort of speaks for itself, computer equipment to run Linux and MS Windows is ridiculously cheap.  Mac is premium stuff, whilst Amiga price is in a league of it's own..

Available Apps
1) MS Windows
2) OS X
3) Linux/BSD
4) AmigaOS
Another nobrainer, MS Windows has more apps than OS X even if you count iPhone.  Mac OS is fairly rich in Apps.  Linux apps are ok, AmigaOS apps are old and creaky, what is modern is largely ok Linux apps ported to AmigaOS.

Ease of development
1) MacOS
2) MS Windows
3) Linux
4) AmigaOS
Yet again stating the obvious, XCode tools is nothing short of amazing.  7 Year old kids are selling iPhone apps.  But here's the worrying thing about it for Apple desktops/Laptops, relative few of those developers are using those tools to build desktop apps, opting for mobile apps instead.

Available information
1) MS Windows
2) OS X
3) Linux
4) Amiga OS

Simple, to a majority of people MS Windows == Computer.  2 and 3 could be argued, since Linux source code is available and OS X is not.  But Linux is no place for a n00b. Linux enthusiasts tend to get perturbed by questions that don't involve recompiling the kernel or rewriting major bits of code.  Linux is Geek code and they like it that way.  Classic Amiga OS is ok if you can get ahold of the aging RKM, but Morphos, AROS and OS 4.1? Fugetaboutit!!!

Out of Box experience
1) OS X
2) MS Windows
3) Linux
4) AmigaOS

Apple shines here, the Apple is well polished, when you turn on an OS X machine for the first time it is awe inspiring.  Everyone else is an also ran. MS Windows is obviously next.  It doesn't inspire awe, but it works pretty much out of the box.  Linux, well it's a roll your own world, the Ubuntu folks have succeeded to some extent in removing the "huh?  What was that?" feel, but frankly it underwhelms.  AmigaOS doesn't come out of the box and is cryptic and hard to install.

Is that the all there is?  No.  OS X is amazingly free of viruses/worms and TO AN EXTENT spyware, for an OS that gets close to 10% of sales in the US that's a good statement.  Linus of course is the same and AmigaOS is protected against viruses by obscurity.

As far are tweak-ability, it really depends on what you want.  OS X is quite tweak-able and it has BSD under the bonnet so you can do a lot.  The vast majority of OS X users don't tweak, they like the purity of the machine as it comes from Apple.  The fact that they don't tweak is a user preference, not an OS thing.

You could say similar things about MS Windows, the majority of them just want the apps, with some work you can make MS Windows look like Snow Leopard or any OS of your choice, but few care to do so.

Linux folks are constant tweakers, it's a Geeks world and most of the tweaks fall into the "Don't these people have a life" category but still they tweak.

AmigaOS users mostly tweak but refuse to believe that anyone else can do that or that their tweaking is far and above better, purer and more genuine that anyone elses.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2010, 01:45:29 PM by persia »
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Offline outlawal2

Re: Windows is buggy and slow lets buy a Mac
« Reply #153 on: March 24, 2010, 02:23:38 PM »
Quote from: johnklos;549453
I don't understand what all this complaining is about. Let's look at the benefits and shortcomings of each OS:

AmigaDOS: back in the '80s and '90s, it was the only personal computer on which people could affordably program. Nowadays it's hard to get new hardware and updated software, plus the lack of memory protection is a pain.

Windows: ubiquitous, machines are cheap, but costly or difficult to use for development, painfully insecure, and horribly inconsistent.

MacOS: then, the idiot savant which did certain things wonderfully but not much else; expensive. These days, it's the only mainstream Unix or Unix-like OS which is easy to use, consistent, and has excellent software selection. Most complaints have to do with expensive hardware, but installation on non-Mac hardware isn't hard and the prices aren't really that bad (you get what you pay for - you get a premium computer).

GNU/Linux: available for cheap hardware and generally more secure than Windows, especially in default setups. Downsides are inconsistency between distributions, lack of good distro-specific documentation, idiosyncratic behavior, kitchen sink syndrome, and wanna-be-Windows syndrome.


Most people who like Amigas like to tinker, but there are different kinds of tinkering. It's like people who like working on cars - some people like to work on a car and never get it finished enough to drive, so it sits around as an always going project, whereas some people keep their cars running all the time yet work on them to make them better.

Windows is great for tinkering - blocking incoming and outgoing connections constantly is like playing Space Invaders, finding and zapping trojans is like playing Centipede, et cetera. It never ends, and some people enjoy the challenge.

GNU/Linux is getting that way, too. You're always playing with new modules, reconfiguring the X Window system, trying to figure out all the background processes running, et cetera.

Some people want the car to always be drivable. I'm like that - I run servers using NetBSD without GUIs and hardly ever reboot them. I know exactly what's running, when it runs, why it runs, and know my systems are completely secure because I can recreate each and every file in the entire OS and compare them with what's on disk.

My car, by the way, is a Diesel Chevette with 450,000 miles on it. It gets 40-50 miles per gallon, and it'll be running (and running well) long after most cars currently on the road are long gone. I know I'm definitely the exception in this case.

At the other end, I want a machine which I don't need to reboot all the time, so I don't want to tinker with it. Therefore, I use Mac OS X. Every once in a while I run Software Update, but otherwise it just runs. No problems, no modules, no trying to get the GUI to match the configuration files, no killing runaway Landscape processes. It just works, it's secure, and I have certainly gotten my money's worth for my Mac mini.

Of course there are people like me who want things to just run all the time but who run Windows and GNU/Linux. They're braver than I am, and there's nothing wrong with that at all. Everyone has a choice.


BUT - and this is an important but - putting down other people's choices doesn't make yours any better. Trying to maintain tenuous stances about silly generalizations doesn't change the truth. GNU/Linux isn't always easy, but once you get it set up to your liking it's not bad. Windows is horribly insecure, but if you're smart enough to never click on links in email and you don't use IE, you're probably much less likely to get infected than the masses. Mac OS systems aren't cheap, but you can get a used Mac or install Mac OS X on some generic Intel hardware without too much fuss.

Just remember about how people always put Amigas down for stupid reasons - and we know that it was mostly just because they were jealous!


Obviously a man who has used all of these and knows what he is talking about!  Well said!  ALL of these OPTIONS are good ones for the right individual and none of them will fit every possible situation..  That is exactly why they are out there and it is up to us to decide which one fits for our purposes.  I personally run nearly all of the current Windows offerings and they all have good points and not so good points.  WIN7 is pretty damn good and I really have enjoyed this one in both 32 and 64 bit offerings...  I also run  Linux just for the hell of it and really like a version of Ubuntu Studio and it installs fairly well but I have run into issues with Nvidia video cards. Had to buy a different one to get Linux to work...  Oh well..  Along with that I have three Macs that encompass both PPC as well as Intel and run Tiger on two of them and Snow Leopard on my latest one. All of them are good machines and solid OS's...  Like Windows, good points and not so good points.  Since I am a glutton for punishment, I am also running Novell Netware 5.11 on one of my old machines and have definitely had issues getting that one to run.. Mostly because Novell tailored their OS to run on server class machines that were current at the time to the OS release...  Sooo if you try to use different hardware you can really have troubles...  That box is probably my most finicky but what the Hell.. Just playing with it anyway.  My Amiga 2000 hasn't seen much use lately but I will be messing about with it soon and my Efika running MorphOS was not to my liking..  MorphOS looks gorgeous, but I haven't been able to get enough documentation/information etc. on using it and installing apps.  Entirely too programmer oriented for my tastes.  Nothing wrong with that, just frustrates me too much when I don't know what I am doing and can't get enough documentation/information to appease me..  

WIN7 is good stuff...  Mac OS is good stuff...  Linux, MorphOS and Novell are all good stuff as well...   Just have fun with them and use the one that fits your purpose / style whatever...   In my case I get tired of the same-o same-o so I like to tinker with pretty much whatever I can get my hands on...  

And despite a lot of nay-sayers out there, I am really excited about the new X1000.. (I know all of the arguments and possible downsides, but having another option to add to my computing stable is still intriguing...)
 

Offline Arkhan

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Re: Windows is buggy and slow lets buy a Mac
« Reply #154 on: March 26, 2010, 11:43:13 PM »
Quote from: the_leander;549450
Enlightenment is about as lightweight as xfce but far prettier and imho more conducive to workflow (YMMV).


yeah, I saw that.... but I am bias towards things with mice/rats on them, lol.


If mac OSX suddenly had a rat for a mascot, id be in line to buy a mac probably... :roflmao:
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Offline desiv

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Re: Windows is buggy and slow lets buy a Mac
« Reply #155 on: March 27, 2010, 08:10:45 PM »
Quote from: persia;549498
Linux folks are constant tweakers, it's a Geeks world and most of the tweaks fall into the "Don't these people have a life" category but still they tweak.

Oh, well, as long as you aren't making insulting generalizations then, that's OK..  :(

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Offline whabang

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Re: Windows is buggy and slow lets buy a Mac
« Reply #156 on: March 27, 2010, 09:31:48 PM »
I wanted a modern computer, so AmigaOS was out of the question. That does not change the fact that AmigsOS is awesome.

I wanted to assemble my own computer, so MacOS was out of the question. MacOS was an excellent OS the last time i tried it.

I use my PC to play online games, so Windows was selected because of performance reasons. That does not change the fact that there are several powerful and capable *NIX'es on the market, and that those can reach a high software compatability using WINE.

In the end it's about what the system is to be used for.
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Offline persia

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Re: Windows is buggy and slow lets buy a Mac
« Reply #157 on: March 27, 2010, 10:32:34 PM »
Virtualbox and an old copy of XP is far more compatible than WINE will ever be.  I can even fire up that foul piece of software known as Access, cursed thing that it is.



Quote from: whabang;549942
I wanted a modern computer, so AmigaOS was out of the question. That does not change the fact that AmigsOS is awesome.

I wanted to assemble my own computer, so MacOS was out of the question. MacOS was an excellent OS the last time i tried it.

I use my PC to play online games, so Windows was selected because of performance reasons. That does not change the fact that there are several powerful and capable *NIX'es on the market, and that those can reach a high software compatability using WINE.

In the end it's about what the system is to be used for.
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Offline save2600

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Re: Windows is buggy and slow lets buy a Mac
« Reply #158 on: March 27, 2010, 11:13:35 PM »
Windoze is buggy and slow, and my 2.1ghz G5 is quickly becoming that way too. Hello MacMini and MorphOS!
 

Offline Arkhan

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Re: Windows is buggy and slow lets buy a Mac
« Reply #159 on: March 27, 2010, 11:26:58 PM »
Quote from: persia;549957
Virtualbox and an old copy of XP is far more compatible than WINE will ever be.  I can even fire up that foul piece of software known as Access, cursed thing that it is.



vbox doesnt deliver as good for the high end 3D gaming experience
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Offline motrucker

Re: Windows is buggy and slow lets buy a Mac
« Reply #160 on: March 29, 2010, 06:46:33 PM »
Why hasn't some one pulled the plug on this bunch of opinionated garbage?! This may well take the cake for the dumbest thread ever on amiga.org.
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Offline Karlos

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Re: Windows is buggy and slow lets buy a Mac
« Reply #161 on: March 29, 2010, 07:14:34 PM »
Quote from: motrucker;550223
Why hasn't some one pulled the plug on this bunch of opinionated garbage?! This may well take the cake for the dumbest thread ever on amiga.org.

Well, whilst I agree that platform wars are stupid (especially these days), nothing in the thread violates the TOS and people are entitled to their opinions. Nobody is forcing you to read the thread.
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Offline gertsy

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Re: Windows is buggy and slow lets buy a Mac
« Reply #162 on: March 30, 2010, 11:26:11 AM »
Quote from: motrucker;550223
Why hasn't some one pulled the plug on this bunch of opinionated garbage?! This may well take the cake for the dumbest thread ever on amiga.org.


We should start a vote "Is this the dumbest thread ever on Amiga Org".  Yeah ?

While we're on Windows being slow. How about offering the same features over and over again and calling them "New"

The top 7 reasons for Windows 7 from the MS website and (why they sound familiar):

1. Keep your favorite files and programs handy: Pin them to the Taskbar.  (Quick launch bar since Win XP)
 
2. Use Snap to compare two files side-by-side with a quick drag to the edge of the screen. (Right click : tile vertically Since Win 95)
 
3. HomeGroup takes the headache out of sharing files, devices, and printers on a home network. (The only headache is incompatibility between Windows XP, Vista and Windows 7 for home networks. This one is a bit of, make problem with Vista and fix it with 7 so nice)

4. Personlaise your PC Download fun extras to give your PC a personal touch. (Yes well you could do this from Win311)

5. With "Play To", it's easy to send music, photos, and videos from your PC to other media devices. (Right Click "Send to" does the same thing by putting the network folder or device in the "send to" folder, simple since 98(network))

6. With Windows Touch, you can use your fingers to scroll, resize windows, play media, and pan and zoom on your touch screen PC. (It's NEW Yippee! Lets buy it..!)
 
7. Parental Control  help them be safer online, too. (Err "K9" (with repudiation) works very well for free)

Happy days are here again, everything old is new again. Happy days are here again..!
See you can teach an old dog new tricks. You just tell everybody; "No these are new tricks, no really, they are...."

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« Last Edit: March 30, 2010, 11:28:54 AM by gertsy »
 

Offline Arkhan

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Re: Windows is buggy and slow lets buy a Mac
« Reply #163 on: March 30, 2010, 05:58:08 PM »
Saying the features have been around is well and good, but....

can you REALLY say, Windows 3.1 was a sleek, customizable dreamOS?

quicklaunch isn't nearly as streamlined as Win7s task bar.  Hell now the taskbar works like tabbed browsers almost, and has alot more to it than quicklaunch.

snap is a bit easier than the ol' Tile the Windows bit.   Especially if you have more than just the TWO windows you want to use open...  

and the whole file sharing thing has always been a giant PITA, and the send-to thing isn't exactly apparent.

You have to remember the OS isn't aimed strictly at people who know what the hell they are doing .   There are confused newcomers also.


and people who weren't using computers when the features were "new" back with Win95. :)
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Offline ElPolloDiablTopic starter

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Re: Windows is buggy and slow lets buy a Mac
« Reply #164 on: March 30, 2010, 06:52:05 PM »
The idea of an OS has changed to automate more and more functions. The problem is that Windows assumes you want certain functions automated and 'disappears' everything thing else. I haven't used OS X so I can't comment on that.
Maybe because it is based on NT nobody at Microsoft has thought of making it user friendly to alter the base configuration.
What's the deal with a minimum virtual memory? I didn't install 4GB of RAM so I could hear the hard driving ticking away with god knows what.
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