Have you ever prayed for the Amiga?

[bloodline]

The trouble is God WONT stop ANYONE from making a choice , that is the gift of free will and every time some idiot runs down the street with an oozy we blame God? if so if some guy donate's a g5 amiga's to all of us (drool  ) why is it we dont thank God for that?

Man makes his own choices we are accountable to ourselfs & each other  
 

The problem with the "Free Will" argument is that it means we have an impotent God... which is far worse than no god at all... :-o

[CHEVY]

Here a question if prayer is not answered, then why do 12 step programs work. AA, NA and SA these are just a few of them.

We all have a GOD. Some of us just call it by another name.

CONTEMPT TO DISDAIN AS WORTHLESS

There is a principle which is a bar against information which is proof against all arguments and cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance. That principle is contempt prior to investigation.

Herbert Spencer

[that_punk_guy]

I wish ex-alcoholics would give themselves more credit than that. They got past their addiction, but they attribute it to some higher power, because of some crap they were fed by an advisor with a religious agenda. It's sad, their self-esteem would be much improved if not for this "God had mercy on me and showed me the way past alcohol to the divine light" ####.

[Wain]

And that was that. A bit lame really, but at least there's no more extreme right bible-bashing threads... uh, until now

Unfortunately, over at AW now he just spends his time bashing homosexuals.

[bloodline]

that_punk_guy wrote:
I wish ex-alcoholics would give themselves more credit than that. They got past their addiction, but they attribute it to some higher power, because of some crap they were fed by an advisor with a religious agenda. It's sad, their self-esteem would be much improved if not for this "God had mercy on me and showed me the way past alcohol to the divine light" ####.

I agree, the whole world would be a much better place if everybody took responsibility for their own actions, and realised that humans achieve great things without any "hight power", and we can achieve even greater things if we work together... subtle nod to the Open Source comunity ;-)

[Speelgoedmannetje]

spavatch wrote:

MAD wrote:
nothing REALLY proved the existence of any god out there...

I don't like arguing on such topics but... following your philosophy -
- nothing REALLY proved the INEXISTENCE of any god out there... :-D

That'd be translated in our law:
guilty until proven otherwise

Maybe when we die we come in front of the swan of Tuonela (old finnish belief) or something like that

I'd prefer not describe things that I do not understand, but still be respectfull to it.

[dammy]

by bloodline on 2003/11/16 13:23:40

I agree, the whole world would be a much better place if everybody took responsibility for their own actions, and realised that humans achieve great things without any "hight power", and we can achieve even greater things if we work together... subtle nod to the Open Source comunity

I think there are two types of religious folks that are the big problems of the world.

1. Those who are narrow view of "One True Way" and nothing else.  This leads to the current problem with radical islamic groups who think ramming aircraft into buildings is a good way of going to heaven.

2. Those who think they can say a simple prayier and be forgiven.  This leads to actions, sometimes unspeakable, with the knowledge whatever evil they do, they will be forgiven, as long as they repent, for the umptenth time, prior to their death.  This is the reason why Christian Missionaries have stop doing baptism in third world ghettos, because people were think they are now bound for heaven, continue on in their evil ways.

Dammy, the pagan, who thinks all roads lead to Amber.

[bloodline]

dammy wrote:
by bloodline on 2003/11/16 13:23:40

I agree, the whole world would be a much better place if everybody took responsibility for their own actions, and realised that humans achieve great things without any "hight power", and we can achieve even greater things if we work together... subtle nod to the Open Source comunity

I think there are two types of religious folks that are the big problems of the world.

1. Those who are narrow view of "One True Way" and nothing else.  This leads to the current problem with radical islamic groups who think ramming aircraft into buildings is a good way of going to heaven.

2. Those who think they can say a simple prayier and be forgiven.  This leads to actions, sometimes unspeakable, with the knowledge whatever evil they do, they will be forgiven, as long as they repent, for the umptenth time, prior to their death.  This is the reason why Christian Missionaries have stop doing baptism in third world ghettos, because people were think they are now bound for heaven, continue on in their evil ways.

Dammy, the pagan, who thinks all roads lead to Amber.

Indeed 1 = Islam, 2 = catholicism :-D


Bloodline, the atheist, who thinks all roads lead to nothing. :-)

[Panthro]

actually everybody knows free will is a fact you dont have to ba a nut case to know that, so it's not an "argument" (though I think I know what you mean) but as for "Impotent God" thats an interesting idea but I dont see how not interfearing with mans choices = God.... or what ever couldnt mak his own choices as an onipitent being.

I sometimes wonder after sept11 if it's going to be the norm for people who have any believe to be seen as stupid (mass hysteria/predudice?) this reeks of broad judgement based on the actions of a few.

I  PERSONLLY HATE THE FOLLOWING

any minister of any religion that is only in it for the money. (they do exist :-( )

any body that runs down the street harrassing people to come to thier church (i have a m8 who is a christian and he once blasted another bloke for doing this said he was one of the problems with why people thing his kind are nuts.....very funny!!)

any body who thinks that ASKING for forgiveness is a free ticket to do whatever you want when INFACT the real theologns know that it dosent work that way!!  (idiots just look at violence in Irland)

any body who has a closed mind ---FOR OR AGAINST none of us should say we know better if you had an experiance that makes you believe recognize that faith is not related to science, if you havent that doesnt mean you cant etc.

OK  i'll get off this theological stand now...LOL
I used to know a guy who was a theologn maybe I passed to much time traveling to work talking with him :-)

oh yeah I think praying for the Amiga is ...well .....sad!!
Gods probly up there saying to you "get a life"

note no offence indende is ment as light harted perspective on the big picture!! :-)

[CHEVY]

Ya! most people who are in AA, NA, SA etc believed that they to could do it on there own.

I am my own boss.

I have the power.

I can stop any time I want to.

Well it just does not work that way.
Ask the ones who are clean today.
Ask them how many of those who who think they can do it own there are still alive.

But I guess I am not as smart as all of you.

See I just accept the fact that God wants the best for me, because He loves me. That His hook.
He just wants to share everthing with us.

So everone has a right to there own opinion, even if they are wrong.

CONTEMPT TO DISDAIN AS WORTHLESS

There is a principle which is a bar against
information which is proof against all arguments
and cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting
ignorance. That principle is contempt prior to
investigation.

Herbert Spencer

Think about it!!!

[Cyberus]

LinchpiN wrote:
Never prayed for silicone. (Im not the prayer-type).

I'm sure plenty of women have  :-P

[bloodline]

Well the "impotent god" idea is a very interesting one.

It derives from the observation that, if there is a god, he is either unwilling or unable to act in peoples lives. For example, you have a Car Crash, you are unhurt. What do you do? Thank God... ok fine.

Then the same day a 747 full of hmanitarian aid workers and sick children crashes and everyone is killed, who do you Blame? The Pilot? the Aircraft designer? the Enginerring Teams? God?

One cannont say, it's all part of God's plan, since you are no more important than everyone on that plane.
Why did you think him for being unharmed in that car crash? Did he really decide to save you and not all those other people?

so we are in a situation where we say, ok there is a good, but he doesn't want to help or there is a god but he is unable to help or... well you get the idea :-)

I rather like a quote I found in one of my old Physics, that I think in  weird way applied here:

"Anything that interacts with our universe MUST obey the laws of our Universe, If it does not obey the laws of our universe it is not part of our universe and we can ignore it".

[Martyn]

@everything bloodline's said:

Amen.

Anhyone know what 'Amen' literally means?

Panthro:

actually everybody knows free will is a fact you dont have to ba a nut case to know that, so it's not an "argument" (though I think I know what you mean)

He wasn't saying there's no such thing as free will, more that it's a lame argument for why God doesn't interfere with matters on earth (anymore).  Why did he stop anyway?

but as for "Impotent God" thats an interesting idea but I dont see how not interfearing with mans choices = God.... or what ever couldnt mak his own choices as an onipitent being.

If God existed, was omnipotent and still did nothing to prevent the suffering of people, then he isn't a God I could ever follow anyway.

[odin]

AFAIK amen means 'so be it'.

-edit-
From dictionary.com:

amen

This Hebrew word means firm, and hence also faithful (Rev. 3:14). In Isa. 65:16,
the Authorized Version has "the God of truth," which in Hebrew is "the God of
Amen." It is frequently used by our Saviour to give emphasis to his words,
where it is translated "verily." Sometimes, only, however, in John's Gospel, it
is repeated, "Verily, verily." It is used as an epithet of the Lord Jesus
Christ (Rev. 3:14).

It is found singly and sometimes doubly at the end of
prayers (Ps. 41:13; 72:19; 89:52), to confirm the words and invoke the
fulfilment of them. It is used in token of being bound by an oath (Num. 5:22;
Deut. 27:15-26; Neh. 5:13; 8:6; 1 Chr. 16:36).

In the primitive churches it was
common for the general audience to say "Amen" at the close of the prayer (1
Cor. 14:16). The promises of God are Amen; i.e., they are all true and sure (2
Cor. 1:20).

[Martyn]

odin wrote:
AFAIK amen means 'so be it'.
[definitions snipped]

So in summary it's like saying:

"Watching the game, having a Bud."
"True."

[bloodline]

Martyn wrote:

odin wrote:
AFAIK amen means 'so be it'.
[definitions snipped]

So in summary it's like saying:

"Watching the game, having a Bud."
"True."

 :roflmao:  :pint: